Is it wise to remove the CAT and blanking of the EGR? - Page 2





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  1. #21
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    Gert my D3 also smoked during idle and heavy acceleration. It was eventually solved with another remap.
    good luck.
    BruceT
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landyluvver View Post
    Electromann have introduced the new upgraded diagnostics for R2500
    has a lot more features than the 930 model
    http://www.electromannsa.co.za/shop/...ver-and-jaguar
    Wow. A lot cheaper than the IIDToolBT that I bought. But does this one write to the CCF? I don't see that anywhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceT View Post
    Gert my D3 also smoked during idle and heavy acceleration. It was eventually solved with another remap.
    good luck.
    Hi Bruce the issue discussed here is white smoke, which is unburnt fuel due to SEVERE overfuelling.

    The result of this can be as below.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    George Bosch
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  4. #24
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    Thanks for clearing that up....so are you saying that a incorrectly setup remap will not cause the same if not similar issues?
    (just asking)
    Last edited by BruceT; 2015/10/22 at 09:52 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceT View Post
    Thanks for clearing that up....so are you saying that a incorrectly setup remap will not cause the same if not similar issues? (just asking)
    I am confused. I read that you and Herr Bosch exchanged PM's, not sure if the P is personal or private. Just asking.
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7foot View Post
    I am confused. I read that you and Herr Bosch exchanged PM's, not sure if the P is personal or private. Just asking.
    No we are not stirring
    George Bosch
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceT View Post
    Thanks for clearing that up....so are you saying that a incorrectly setup remap will not cause the same if not similar issues?
    (just asking)
    Hi Bruce

    just to give you some background, where my knowledge and experience is coming from. I used to run a Golf1 Diesel 54HP, where every 1/4 of a HP gained or missing could be felt

    So I have like a 6th sense when it comes to squeeze the last bit of performance from a diesel engine WITHOUT!!! increasing boost pressure or modifiying heads etc.

    When mapping a diesel engine one always walks a very fine line between performance and rapidly increasing EGT's. So the trick is to get max performance at LESS THAN 50% throttle position As a result of that diesel filter maintencance (10'000km intervals on a standard or mapped D3) will become the norm, as the vehicle will start belching black smoke, once you approach 14-15K kilometers at 50+% WOT. On my 300Tdi the "sweet spot" was around 7'500km because it didn't have an electric pre-feed pump and with the FFRR Td6 it is around 12K kilometers. Once it hits 15'000km it would put the VW scandal to shame

    When Elton mapped my RR Td6, I gave him the brief to map for max pulling power below 3500rpm at less than 50% WOT. This he achieved admirably. But when I floor it on the highway with a diesel filter beyond 12K then I get some rude sign language from the guys following me.

    So yes mapping is always a trade off between performance and some smoke. The smoking tendency in a mapped engine can be drastically reduced by adding 5ml of JASO-FC compliant 2sO per litre of diesel and the rig will run quieter as well.

    The above info based on many many kilometers of diesel driving. (I sold the Golf1 with 1'053'000km trading it in on a MB 300D back in 1998. I even made it into the VW magazine back then with my high miler).

    Hope this helps you to understand this better.

    WOT = Wide Open Throttle

    Regarding your smoke question, black smoke is a nuisance for the guys following you, but white smoke at idle will kill the engine. This (white smoke) in most cases is caused by worn injectors or excessive carbon build up around the nozzle tips, which alters the spray pattern of the injectors. Normally it is a combination of the two. The prevention of this "is a hot potato" on this forum. Injector cleaner will treat the symptoms, but not the cause. Look higher up in my answer to Peter, #5, where I explained this in detail.
    Last edited by hgbosch; 2015/11/24 at 07:41 AM.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7foot View Post
    I am confused. I read that you and Herr Bosch exchanged PM's, not sure if the P is personal or private. Just asking.

    yes you clearly very confused.....that has nothing to do with this topic and no we are not stirring as hgbosch said. Are you?


    thanks for the explanation hgbosch
    Last edited by BruceT; 2015/10/23 at 06:30 AM.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by hgbosch View Post
    Hi Bruce the issue discussed here is white smoke, which is unburnt fuel due to SEVERE overfuelling.

    The result of this can be as below.
    George!
    the placement or publication of pornography is strictly forbidden
    please restrain yourself!
    Gary at Sartor showed me a piston out of a severely overfuelled and overboosted Toyota diesel
    luckily the piston was ceramic coated otherwise there would have been liquid aluminium in the oil filter
    will take a photo next time i pass there

    Land Rovers never die, they simply become organ donors!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Landyluvver View Post
    George!
    the placement or publication of pornography is strictly forbidden
    please restrain yourself!
    Gary at Sartor showed me a piston out of a severely overfuelled and overboosted Toyota diesel
    luckily the piston was ceramic coated otherwise there would have been liquid aluminium in the oil filter
    will take a photo next time i pass there
    This was what Piston #4 of my 1955 Merc Gullwing motor looked like, after an injector failed at 260km/h in Germany. It nearly resulted in a "stained" driver's seat.

    The smoke coming out of the exhaust was spectacular to say the least

    When we rebuilt the engine during 2003-2004 I brought the pistons and exhaust manifolds here to SA to have them coated by Sartor Bros.
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    Last edited by hgbosch; 2015/10/23 at 09:12 AM.
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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landyluvver View Post
    George!
    the placement or publication of pornography is strictly forbidden
    please restrain yourself!
    Gary at Sartor showed me a piston out of a severely overfuelled and overboosted Toyota diesel
    luckily the piston was ceramic coated otherwise there would have been liquid aluminium in the oil filter
    will take a photo next time i pass there
    Hi Albert

    this is a demo piston from Sartor, the shiny side is ceramically coated, the dull side not.

    The pic is self explanatory, why ceramic coating is such a VERY CLEVER idea!
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    Last edited by hgbosch; 2015/10/23 at 08:23 PM.
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  12. #32
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    worth considering when rebuilding and engine
    adds around R5k to the cost of the engine to do head and pistons

    Land Rovers never die, they simply become organ donors!

  13. #33
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    In my modest opinion a MUST for any rebuild of a direct injection diesel or petrol engine.

    If an injector fails, then this will prevent the piston melting.

    But everyone has to decide for themselves.
    Last edited by hgbosch; 2015/10/24 at 02:14 PM.
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  14. #34
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    Default Burn a bit of two-stroke oil

    On the subject of gunk build-up, a fix that I have been applying successfully for decades is to add 20 to 30 ml outboard oil to 20 litres of petrol. It costs peanuts and there are many benefits and no negatives. It works as an upper-cylinder lubricant, cleans and prevents carbon build-up, lubricates the fuel pump/seals/injectors, cleans the fuel system and scavenges water that ethanol attracts, provides a film of protection in the fuel system to stop corrosion, keeps spark plugs/valves/combustion chambers and ring packs clean, leaves a film on the cylinder walls to eliminate cold start metal wear.

    When somebody tried to sell some fuel conditioner to me to improve combustion and fuel efficiency, they guaranteed results. When I tested this rather expensive product, there was NO discernible improvement. The seller was very upset, tried to prove that I had been using incorrect mixes, but in the end they had to admit that their "guaranteed" product does not work in my vehicle. I believe that the reason for this is the fact that my outboard oil mix is doing the same job at a fraction of the cost.

  15. #35
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    Hi langjan

    you are skidding here ON VERY SLIPPERY TERRITORY!!

    Those of us who use it, know that it works, but there are quite a few forumites here who vehemently oppose anything to do with 2sO (OUTBOARD OIL IS a 2sO) .

    That opposition is mainly based on hear say anecdotes etc etc.

    But we should stop right here, otherwise there will be another anti 2sO battle cry.

    Just for the record langjan me myself I am a longtime user of this. But only the JASO-FC grade, because it contains special de-carbonising additives an an added bonus.
    George Bosch
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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by hgbosch View Post
    Hi Bruce


    When mapping a diesel engine one always walks a very fine line between performance and rapidly increasing EGT's. So the trick is to get max performance at LESS THAN 50% throttle position As a result of that diesel filter maintencance (20'000km intervals on a mapped D3) will become the norm, as the vehicle will start belching black smoke, once you approach 18-19K kilometers at 50+% WOT. On my 300Tdi the "sweet spot" was around 7'500km because it didn't have an electric pre-feed pump and with the FFRR Td6 it is around 12K kilometers. Once it hits 15'000km it would put the VW scandal to shame


    So yes mapping is always a trade off between performance and some smoke. The smoking tendency in a mapped engine can be drastically reduced by adding 5ml of JASO-FC compliant 2sO per litre of diesel and the rig will run quieter as well.



    Hope this helps you to understand this better.

    WOT = Wide Open Throttle

    Regarding your smoke question, black smoke is a nuisance for the guys following you, but white smoke at idle will kill the engine. This (white smoke) in most cases is caused by worn injectors or excessive carbon build up around the nozzle tips, which alters the spray pattern of the injectors. Normally it is a combination of the two. The prevention of this "is a hot potato" on this forum. Injector cleaner will treat the symptoms, but not the cause. Look higher up in my answer to Peter, #5, where I explained this in detail.
    Hi George,
    Please explain more,as my car suddenly smokes more at WOT.I don't understand how the diesel filter can cause the smoking?Surely a blocked diesel filter will result in reduced performance,not more black smoking?
    Thanks,
    Frans
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoFrans View Post
    Hi George,
    Please explain more,as my car suddenly smokes more at WOT.I don't understand how the diesel filter can cause the smoking?Surely a blocked diesel filter will result in reduced performance,not more black smoking?
    Thanks,
    Frans
    Hi Frans

    this is actually quite simple to explain. Contrary to a carburettor equipped petrol car, a diesel vehicle works with a surplus of air supply. It is only THE QUANTITY of diesel injected, that will produce the power at a certain revs/min.

    I am talking rudimentary diesel technology here!!!

    To achieve this there are three main variables to take into account:

    1. Cold engine = advance diesel pump timing

    2. Start of injection = i.e. at what Degs BTDC does the injector open

    3. Fuel metering = i.e. how much diesel is injected per compression stroke.

    Where as #1 and #2 are fixed by mechanical intervention, the 3rd one can AND WILL be influenced by a flow reduction due to a blocked diesel filter.

    The moment the precise amount of diesel fuel injected is no longer available, the pedal has to be depressed further to get more power. But now there is an excess of diesel injected, which results in a reduction in available power and an increase in diesel fuel consumption. The side effect of this is black smoke at WOT. The more that diesel filter blockage increases, the bigger the amount of smoke produced.

    So you will have to find "the sweet spot" on your rig, i.e. at what mileage after a filter change will she start to smoke. If you keep records on fuel consumption, you can actually monitor and rectify this BEFORE the smoking starts.

    On Swambo's D3 it is 10000km filter intervals, on my D1 300Tdi it was 7500km, and on the FFRR Td6 it is 10'000km intervals.

    The above must NOT BË CONFUSED with white smoke, which is non atomized or poorly atomized diesel. It is the white smoke that will kill your engine.

    Black smoke can also develop if the diesel timing is out of sync. And that can only happen by HIF = Human Induced Failure.

    The above is only a very basic explanation. There are many more factors in modern diesel engines that are monitored, most of them by electronic interpretation of varying sensor voltage signals.

    I trust that this will bring some more light into this very complex topic.

    Greetings from the Lufthansa Lounge at Frankfurt Airport
    Last edited by hgbosch; 2015/11/24 at 07:43 AM.
    George Bosch
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  18. #38
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    Thanks George,
    I change diesel filters every 10000kms and the filter was changed recently.At 50% opening and in midrange of revs there is none or very little smoke.Only at full opening and it is more than usual.Have not filled at suspect stations either.
    Enloy your flight.
    Regards,
    Frans
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    2006 TDV6 SE A/T(Sold)
    2013 Bush Lapa Boskriek B142 met CKGR strepe
    2008 FL2 TD4 SE A/T
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  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoFrans View Post
    Thanks George,
    I change diesel filters every 10000kms and the filter was changed recently.At 50% opening and in midrange of revs there is none or very little smoke.Only at full opening and it is more than usual.Have not filled at suspect stations either.
    Enloy your flight.
    Regards,
    Frans
    Hi Frans

    that is normal, don't sweat about that. Between 3/4 and full throttle, you will only produce smoke but no further power, so just be easy on your right foot
    Last edited by hgbosch; 2015/10/27 at 11:30 PM.
    George Bosch
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  20. #40
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    Good Day,
    Just some feedback on my disco 3.
    The injectors was removed and sent to the local diesel agents. Unfortunately they didn’t have the equipment to do the required testing. They have referred me to diesel agents in Stellenbosch which tested the injectors for back leakage and found that 2 injectors were faulty.
    Still not totally satisfied a shipped the injectors to Johannesburg for further testing and a second opinion. Bottom line 2 injectors were faulty and the diagnostic tests for the remainder shows results close to borderline. Mafika Engineering recommended that it’s best to remanufactured/refurbish all injectors.
    The estimated cost for the remanufacture of the injectors to specification amounts to R3000-00 injector. Quotations received for new injectors varied from R6 150 to R7 600 per injector. The guarantee offered by Mafika Engineering for the remanufactured/refurbished injectors are the same as for the new. Due to significant saving it was for me a no brainer too went for the remanufactured/refurbishment option.
    For all off the Disco owners there is an option to remanufactured/refurbish injectors.
    I will keep you posted after I received the injectors back and been installed.
    Take care and regards
    G

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