plan-b-needed-to-save-rhinos





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  1. #1
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    Plan b sounds like more of plan a.
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    So the solution is more legislation, making it even more illegal?

    I am also sorry to say but I do not believe ANY animal is worth sending a person to prison for a lifetime, especially since the poacher on the ground doing the dirty work is likely trying to put food on the table, not raking in the big dollars.

    I will say this again. Animals should be treated as commodities and traded as such. This will ensure their survival because the people and communities who stand to benefit from such trade will not kill the goose that lays their golden eggs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Koebelwagen View Post
    So the solution is more legislation, making it even more illegal?

    I am also sorry to say but I do not believe ANY animal is worth sending a person to prison for a lifetime, especially since the poacher on the ground doing the dirty work is likely trying to put food on the table, not raking in the big dollars.

    I will say this again. Animals should be treated as commodities and traded as such. This will ensure their survival because the people and communities who stand to benefit from such trade will not kill the goose that lays their golden eggs.
    Spoken like a true capitalist $$$
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    The owners of the rhinos need to be taken to court and incarcerated, or at the very least, heavily fined for not protecting their livestock. Also, if they can not protect the rhinos, then the rhinos need to be taken away from them and put in the care of someone that can. No distinction between private or government owned. If you can not protect them, then you should not be allowed to own them. Cost of removal form your property should also be for your account.

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    [ATTACH]366064[/ATTACH

    found this on facebook
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickyc View Post
    [ATTACH]366064[/ATTACH

    found this on facebook
    And waiting for the first report of their success.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Farquart View Post
    The owners of the rhinos need to be taken to court and incarcerated, or at the very least, heavily fined for not protecting their livestock. Also, if they can not protect the rhinos, then the rhinos need to be taken away from them and put in the care of someone that can. No distinction between private or government owned. If you can not protect them, then you should not be allowed to own them. Cost of removal form your property should also be for your account.
    Brilliant plan!


    Lets also apply to sheep farmers: if your sheep gets stolen, you go to jail!
    Overkill - isn't!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Farquart View Post
    The owners of the rhinos need to be taken to court and incarcerated, or at the very least, heavily fined for not protecting their livestock. Also, if they can not protect the rhinos, then the rhinos need to be taken away from them and put in the care of someone that can. No distinction between private or government owned. If you can not protect them, then you should not be allowed to own them. Cost of removal form your property should also be for your account.
    easy solution.

    just kill them all. they are simply an unaffordable expense with your solution.

    no one is going to care for Rhinos. I can tell you RIGHT NOW, nearly game farmer in the country would GIVE their Rhino to an organisation - like save the Rhino - if they put up and bought a piece of land and spent the requesite money on protecting them.

    we can put you in charge of the effort.

    if you lose one to a poacher, you will, of course, do the honourable thing and commit seppuku.

    because that it what you are proposing.

    the PROBLEM is the trade ban.

    it's so apparent it amazes me that people are not aware of it.

    prior to the trade ban there was negligible poaching and the rhino population was healthy and increasing - sustainable, ethical and humane approach, money went to conserving and protecting the animals.

    trade ban ON - massive poaching, inhumane, unethical unsustainable use happens, money funds a criminal organisation - and the solution is to ban it some more.

    because why ? please explain how this approach will work?

    should we make drugs more illegal? prostitiuion more illegal? make alcohol illegal?

    have you seen how well this works?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uys View Post
    Brilliant plan!


    Lets also apply to sheep farmers: if your sheep gets stolen, you go to jail!
    Maybe get those other brain cells working too.
    We are talking endangered and protected species here, not dime a dozen domesticated animals. Instead of taking a dig, how 'bout you come with a plan?

    If Mr Gamefarmer has the money to purchase 10 rhino, then he should have the means to protect his investment 24/7/365. If he can't do both, then he is not fit to own endangered animals. Something similar has been implemented here in Botswana. You want to see rhino, you go to the Rhino Sanctuary. Smaller property so easier to protect them. Maybe not ideal, but until the Chinese realize what they are doing, and that they can do without it, drastic steps needs to be taken.

    Anyway, what has been implemented to date is obviously not working, so what do you suggest? Even if you don't have a proposal, how about shooting holes in mine. It will be more constructive than your attempt above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Farquart View Post
    And waiting for the first report of their success.
    lets define success here.

    is success a dead poacher?

    or is success no dead Rhino?

    because.... there are lots of dead Rhino and one or two dead poachers....

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    To my mind, the problem is that the objective has been forgotten by the righteousness of the public, as so often happens.

    the objective is that Rhino population continues, that they have habitat to live in and are allowed to live a wild and natural life. or at least, thats what some of us think it is.

    but, it seems, very few people actually care about that. Ironically, the only people that actually seem to care about that are the vilified ones - hunters and people that want to buy Rhino products.

    Other people seem to have developed this massive blood thirst and want to see people dying, being hunted , sent bankrupt for even looking at a Rhino skeef.

    it's called extremism, and it's the kind of mindset that ends in people flying planes into skyscrapers to make a point.
    Last edited by Apocalypse; 2015/09/03 at 11:08 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Farquart View Post
    how 'bout you come with a plan?

    Anyway, what has been implemented to date is obviously not working, so what do you suggest? Even if you don't have a proposal, how about shooting holes in mine. It will be more constructive than your attempt above.
    Make Rhino horn trading legal!
    Overkill - isn't!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Farquart View Post
    Maybe get those other brain cells working too.
    We are talking endangered and protected species here, not dime a dozen domesticated animals. Instead of taking a dig, how 'bout you come with a plan?

    If Mr Gamefarmer has the money to purchase 10 rhino, then he should have the means to protect his investment 24/7/365. If he can't do both, then he is not fit to own endangered animals. Something similar has been implemented here in Botswana. You want to see rhino, you go to the Rhino Sanctuary. Smaller property so easier to protect them. Maybe not ideal, but until the Chinese realize what they are doing, and that they can do without it, drastic steps needs to be taken.

    Anyway, what has been implemented to date is obviously not working, so what do you suggest? Even if you don't have a proposal, how about shooting holes in mine. It will be more constructive than your attempt above.
    the START is to go back to what was working.

    prior to 2007 poaching was negligible.

    Asian buyers simply took part in a local trophy hunt, kept the horn - it was legal to do so in SA.

    but it was illegal for it to leave SA since the CITES 80s ban .

    so , the 'mafia' had already got a good foothold in by transporting it in a semi legal fashion.

    the CITES guys started putting the clamps on farmers who were clearly aware that these hunts were not for trophies, but for medicinal use. and the poaching started. in 2007 it was 13 animals.

    in 2009 the SA govt. made it illegal to deal in Rhino at all - effectively banned trophy hunting. poached animals - 122

    you can bet that some farmers / land owners kept selling 'stock' for a couple of years, plausible deniability that it was sold before the ban kind of thing. and probably sold off any stock pile they had.

    and that was the trigger for the 'mafia' to go balls to the wall with poaching.

    at US$300 000 per horn and 1500 animals this year - that US$450 000 000 the poachers have to spend on 'harvesting horn'

    farmers make.... nothing.

    who do you think is going to win this 'war'?

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    Quote Originally Posted by qoda View Post
    Spoken like a true capitalist $$$
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Farquart View Post
    The owners of the rhinos need to be taken to court and incarcerated, or at the very least, heavily fined for not protecting their livestock. Also, if they can not protect the rhinos, then the rhinos need to be taken away from them and put in the care of someone that can. No distinction between private or government owned. If you can not protect them, then you should not be allowed to own them. Cost of removal form your property should also be for your account.
    Quote Originally Posted by Uys View Post
    Make Rhino horn trading legal!
    See above. Having that view makes you a capitalist although I would prefer the term realist.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    lets define success here.

    is success a dead poacher? YES

    or is success no dead Rhino? YES

    because.... there are lots of dead Rhino and one or two dead poachers....
    Whichever, no success is what I see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uys View Post
    Make Rhino horn trading legal!
    Cool. I have no issue with that. But the people in charge of that will not budge, I think. They don't see responsible and sustainable hunting as a means to an end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Farquart View Post
    Whichever, no success is what I see.
    exactly.

    you cannot enforce the Rhino ban.

    Bots IS working - but only because it's so much easier to poach in SA

    it's like securing your house - sure, you are safer, but crime hasn't stopped, its just happening to your neighbours now - until such time as they improve their security and you are the easier option again.

    with US$450 000 000 to spend on getting hold of Rhino horn they WILL get hold of it.

    with all income for conservation going to glitzy parties in the fashionable capitals of the world, and none coming to the land owners - they have nothing to even begin to try and stop the poachers.

    what are they supposed to use man? harsh language?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Farquart View Post
    Cool. I have no issue with that. But the people in charge of that will not budge, I think. They don't see responsible and sustainable hunting as a means to an end.
    then the Rhino will become extinct....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Ironically, the only people that actually seem to care about that are the vilified ones - hunters and people that want to buy Rhino products.
    Sorry, but I will vilify the vast majority that want to buy rhino products, specifically the horn. We all know who they are and why they want it. Educating them is not going to work. It will take generations to weed out the belief that rhino horn makes you more potent. The science proves the contrary, but the belief will stay. So someone will have to fuel their belief system with the product, unfortunately. Poor rhinos. By the time they know it does not work, there will be no rhino left. They have killed almost all the Asian rhino, so ours is next.

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