Factory Fitted Options and Insurance

[willben]

So, listen to this story. My insurer, M&F, is forcing my to insure my D4 at a "reasonable retail value as determined by a recognized motoring publication" ie. M&M. The reasonable retail value as determined by M&F is R571000. I purchased the vehicle for R390000 (R40k + advertised value to make up for my trade in (that's another story btw))

So I owe the bank R400K but have to insure for R571K. They also specify an additional excess on top of the normal excess of 5% of value of loss (if stolen or written off then R28550 + R5000) if I don't use a tracker. They also want me to contact LR to determine what factory fitted options are fitted to the vehicle. My premium is slightly less than what it was for the Fortuner but if I add a tracker payment it will increase slightly. I have been with M&F for over 10yrs.

Budget Insurance quoted me R100 less premium a month, no tracker required, no additional excess required. On one vehicle insurance only not including household. The excess is R5000.

So the above story in mind, what do you see as answers to the following questions:

• Will M&F payout R400k to the bank and R171k to me if the vehicle is written off or stolen?
• Would you stay with M&F or move to Budget insurance, what do you think about Budget?
• If you had to stay with M&F would you take on a tracker subscription or would you leave it (bearing in mind that out of the R171k they can take the excess)?
• Do you know if the Harmon Kardon sound system is a factory fitted option on a HSE spec D4, and if it is how much it would have cost in 2011?

At the moment I'm quite unhappy with M&F and I await their response to some of the questions I've posed above.

[Millie]

Morning Wilben I am also in the business and their must be a standard for valuating vehicles and the M & M is the most acceptable in most cases. If everybody insure a vehicle for what they want you will see disaster with each and every claim to try and get to an agreement of the value. You also know that they write vehicles off between 50 and 70% of value and if you insure your vehicle for only R 400 000 they will write it off when damages is anything from R 200 000. Will you be happy with that. This is not a M&F perspective but from an Insurance one.
Secondly in my eyes you cannot compare the 2 Insurers on premium only but must compare the cover as well. Is everyone full 4x4 cover, is hail damages included, is cross border cover included and what is the excess if you cross the border etc.
M&F will pay the additional money above the settlement figure to the bank out to you. The Insurance is not about the bank but you the insured but unfortunately the bank has first right to settlement due to the money owed.

Good luck
Herman

[willben]

Thanks Millie, in light of your position can you answer my 3rd question?

[4xhilux]

Willben, I can't answer your questions, but I was in a similar situation when I bought my V8. I got a quote from a well known insurer and they where adamant that the vehicle be insure for more than R500k (I can't remember the exact number), while I paid about R150k to R200k less. No amount of arguing or referring them to autotrader to check prices for themselves (I don't have access to M&M prices) could change their mind. In the end I went with another insurer who would insure it for the amount I paid as evidenced on the invoice.

Part of the problem could be that there are apparently no M&M prices for the V8 as per another thread this week.

[4xhilux]

M&F will pay the additional money above the settlement figure to the bank out to you. The Insurance is not about the bank but you the insured but unfortunately the bank has first right to settlement due to the money owed.

I am sorry, but I don't believe this. When my wife's car was stolen the insurance only wanted to pay out about 80 % of the insured value. When I queried it, I was told I was over insured.

My argument was that they were happy to take my money every month based on a higher value, now that they have to pay, they change their tune.

In the end they refunded me one years' worth of the difference in monthly installment between the insured value and the value they were willing to pay. Came to about R1000 or so compared, to tens of thousands of rands in the insured value.

[George]

In short insurers will, in case of total loss, pay out the replacement value (the current average market worth) of the affected vehicle, obviously given that you're not under insured.

Let's say vehicle X has a current average market value of R100k. You've however bought it for R70k. Now assume an all legitimate total loss claim where only your excess of R5k is applicable.

(a) If you insure it for R70k you are actually under insured from a current average market value perspective. The insurer should pay you out R70k - R5k = R65k. You get pissed of and blame the insurer because you can't buy another similar vehicle with the R65k payout.

(b) You insure it for R100k. The insurer should pay you out R100k - R5k = R95k.

Option (a) excludes potential penalties that might be applicable because you were under insured by x%, so getting R65k out is probably best case scenario.

Cheap insurance companies would probably allow option (a) as they could obviously give you a lower premium, although you end up with a risk that you'll have to potentially spend R35k to replace your vehicle in case of total loss.

Smart insurance companies would only allow option (b) as it makes their processes smoother, doesn't give them the risk of customers bitching and moaning about low payouts and most importantly ensures that you are not under insured.

[willben]

Willben, I can't answer your questions, but I was in a similar situation when I bought my V8. I got a quote from a well known insurer and they where adamant that the vehicle be insure for more than R500k (I can't remember the exact number), while I paid about R150k to R200k less. No amount of arguing or referring them to autotrader to check prices for themselves (I don't have access to M&M prices) could change their mind. In the end I went with another insurer who would insure it for the amount I paid as evidenced on the invoice.

Part of the problem could be that there are apparently no M&M prices for the V8 as per another thread this week.

I don't really have a problem with insuring for R570K for 3 reasons.

1 being that if they pay that out I get R150K in my pocket to put down as a deposit on another Disco 4 V8 HSE.
2 being that even with that much higher retail value I'm still very close to the premium I paid on the Fortuner was has a retail value of R380K I think (puts some things into perspective).
3 is that if for some reason the vehicle is stolen or written off I will now have an opportunity to replace it with a newer year model with lower mileage because of the huge deposit I'll have waiting in my bank account.

I also don't know how they derive the value. Budget insurance will expect me to insure for R540K if I move over to them, but I don't think I'm going to. My broker has already contacted me to let me know that M&F are looking to see if they can match the Budget Insurance premium and wave the tracker.

[Millie]

Wilben regarding your question 3 I will not make a recommendation out of my position because then it could be seen as professional advice and it can come back and bite me. However I will say what I think out of a motor lovers point and that is that I have not heard of many V8 Discoveries that has been stolen and may be it is worth taking the risk on the specific vehicle but I will definitely not in case it is a Hilux or similar and if you do a installation definitely take an Early warning system.
May be give me a pm and I can see what I can get for you
Herman

[willben]

Thanks Herman. If I don't hear from M&F soon I will pm you.

[Rhodex]

My experience. M&F with insured value R200k R780 premium R5k excess when I bought the Disco in December 2012. Then in March 2013 MiWay contact me and offer the same insured value for R600 premium, no excess. 6 months later MiWay advise premium increase to R700. 6 months later MiWay advise premium increase to R800 and excess R3500. I had NO claims at that stage. I sent MiWay to hell in March 2014 and got Retail cover R176k, no excess and premium of R430 with Santam. I did however get a lower premium as I am over 50. 1 year later my premium is still the same with Santam and still no excess. MiWay's argument was the fall in the value of the Rand and subsequent increase in cost of importing parts. Fair enough if I had had a claim. So shop around for insurance!

[willben]

Thanks Rhodex, so far ABSA I-Direct, Budget and M&F running around for me. Will wait and see. I'd like to stay with M&F I hope they come back with a favorable answer.

[Regard]

Since there is no M&M value for Discovery 4 V8's.....

Santam wanted me to insure for R700k, crazy. Told them I only wanted to insure it for the purchase price...they were happy to do so. I am happy that my purchase price is definitely market related for retail price.

Told me to get Tracker. I told them the car has a factory fitted Netstar and I will activate it. They were happy.

They wanted to give me the 5% excess and I said no. I wanted a fixed R3000 excess. They were happy.

I've learned that if you ask (or sometimes just insist and play "harde-gat") you get.





Ps......HK sound system is standard factory fitted system for a HSE. It is not an "extra".

[willben]

I've learned that if you ask (or sometimes just insist and play "harde-gat") you get.



Ps......HK sound system is standard factory fitted system for a HSE. It is not an "extra".

I should hear from M&F today, they're being a bit slow, cause it seems I asked a lot...

How on the HK sound system do I set things like base and treble or speaker balance? I can't find any knoppie.

[4xhilux]

How on the HK sound system do I set things like base and treble or speaker balance? I can't find any knoppie.

If I remember correct, there is a music note button on the dash, this should take you to the treble, bass, and balance.

[incrediblebob]

If I remember correct, there is a music note button on the dash, this should take you to the treble, bass, and balance.

Lots of info for the D4 on disco3.co.uk,there is a section for the D4,doubt there's a lot for the V8 though....

[willben]

Some feedback on the insurance side of things. M&F got back to me, they have lowered the premium and waived the tracker and additional excess requirement. Now I'm very happy, the new premium is in line with what Budget insurance quoted me so big ups to M&F!

[Regard]

Quick press on the "note" button = Bass, Treble, Sub woofer, Balance, Fader, etc...

Long press on the "note" = Phone volume, speed volume, etc...

[4xhilux]

Quick press on the "note" button = Bass, Treble, Sub woofer, Balance, Fader, etc...

Long press on the "note" = Phone volume, speed volume, etc...

Thanks! I wondered how to change the speed alarm volume.