E-Tolls thread





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Thread: E-Tolls thread

  1. #1
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    Default E-Tolls thread

    Dirk, please may we try again?

    Fluffy may we please rant in peace

    SANRAL MAKES RAMAPHOSA LOOK STUPID OVER NEW E-TOLL DISPENSATION

    Contrary to recent statements by Mr Vusi Mona, the Head of Communications at SANRAL, that e-toll critics are being selective in their interpretation of the new e-toll dispensation, OUTA maintains there are in fact fundamental differences between the tariffs gazetted on Wednesday 17th June 2015, and the announcement by the Deputy President Cyril Ramaphosa on 20th May.

    OUTA laments the projection of the internal conflict within Government over e-tolls onto civil society, because it takes us further apart instead of finding a practical solution to the impasse.

    In the Deputy President’s speech of 20th May 2015, Cyril Ramaphosa stated “There will be a monthly cap on the penalty for accounts in arrears. All users who do not pay tolls within the required 30 days will be obliged to pay double the toll tariff. To protect users from incurring high amounts of debt, this will be capped. In the case of light motor vehicles, for example, the monthly cap for accounts in arrears will be R450.”

    However, in the new e-toll tariffs as per Gazette 38884, published on 17 June 2015, the tariffs applicable for non-registered users who do not pay within 30 days, is actually three times the 30c rate applicable, as reflected in Column 6 of Table 1.

    Furthermore, this rate is not capped at R450 as indicated by the Deputy President. In Table 5 of the Gazette, the Department of Transport has only listed the cap of registered users and have failed to indicate the cap of the Alternate (non registered) users at R450.

    These are the facts and there is no selective reading herein. Mr Mona says the new dispensation is being phased in over 18 months. What is really needed in the next 18 months is for Sanral and the Executive to recognize the well known rule of common sense; ‘When you’re in a hole, stop digging’. For guidance and a ‘ladder’ to assist them out of their hole, Sanral and the Department of Transport need to premise the solution on Section 195 of the constitution.

    That means;

    An honest response to the needs of people rather than the imposition of ‘solutions in search of a problem’ driven by technological fetishism.
    Encouragement of the public to participate in government decision making BEFORE they are taken.
    Being accountable and transparent when awkward questions are asked and providing the public with timely, accessible and accurate information, and not throwing up smoke screens and resorting to pure propaganda and misleading statements.
    The discrepancy between the gazetted tariffs and the statements made by the Deputy President, plainly reflects fundamental differences which cannot be brushed aside, as Mr Mona is trying to do and treating the public for fools. This is a clear and material breach of the basic constitutional values and principles governing public administration.

    - See more at: http://www.outa.co.za/site/sanral-ma....qhbh7Prw.dpuf

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    Why would I take on a pressure group?

    That would be suicide, with no way to engage in rational logic. Somewhat akin to wrestling in mud with.....

    Sorry, won't post again until...
    Last edited by Fluffy; 2015/06/22 at 06:13 PM.
    Cheers

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    Yes,
    What i would like to know is there anybody that had to renew their license disc in the recent 21 days?
    What happened?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tapie View Post
    Yes,
    What i would like to know is there anybody that had to renew their license disc in the recent 21 days?
    What happened?
    It got renewed without problems
    IFS is like a swambo, soft, sexy and expensive!

    Apparently I need to make the airplane noises like mommy does when I try to spoon feed you the info..

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    Lucky?
    Maybe it will be implemented shortly?
    I was wondering....
    If you receive the white renewal form in the post and go to the post office for new disc, will the post office also force a person to pay the e-toll bills 1st??
    Francois Hamman
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tapie View Post
    Lucky?
    Maybe it will be implemented shortly?
    I was wondering....
    If you receive the white renewal form in the post and go to the post office for new disc, will the post office also force a person to pay the e-toll bills 1st??
    No, govt has to change some laws first in order to pass their new fleecing scheme, and that can take around 18 months according to reports...

    In the meantime they have to integrate the extortion scheme with enatis, and knowing SITA, that could also take a while... Hopefully by then I'm out of the forsaken place with my family
    IFS is like a swambo, soft, sexy and expensive!

    Apparently I need to make the airplane noises like mommy does when I try to spoon feed you the info..

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    They can't even link speeding fines to Enatis how will they ever make sense of the e-toll billing stuff up. I renewed both my Ranger and camping trailer's licence in the begining of the month with no issue.
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    We wont pay the money!


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    Still not paying....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tapie View Post
    Yes,
    What i would like to know is there anybody that had to renew their license disc in the recent 21 days?
    What happened?
    Jip. Did Mine Saturday.. Mo issues.
    SANRALS Systems still needs to be updated before they can "Do This"

    But - in anycase... If it comes to that, Ill be driving without a disc.
    You can Still Pay for your Disc, they will just not Issue it to you.

    I will not Pay for Etolls... Unless it becomes 1c / Gantry, and EVERYONE pays!! then Maybe. Till then - I will add on to the R31 444.62 i already owe them!
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    Isn't Sanral a non-profit organization? If not, it should be made one...
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  14. #12
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    Some big poep said yesterday on radio interview that they haven't started to update the legislation to withhold lic disks for non payment on etolls. This was obviously an empty scare tactic.

    I still wonder how they intend for the etol financial configuration to function now. Outa and others have said previously that 50% would go towards collection cost. Now they've given 50% off on the rates. So now 100% will go towards the collection cost?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeepiscool View Post
    Some big poep said yesterday on radio interview that they haven't started to update the legislation to withhold lic disks for non payment on etolls. This was obviously an empty scare tactic.

    I still wonder how they intend for the etol financial configuration to function now. Outa and others have said previously that 50% would go towards collection cost. Now they've given 50% off on the rates. So now 100% will go towards the collection cost?
    1) Parliament can't do squat because every time they sit for a vote on legislation, the EFF close the session
    2) The 50% collection cost includes the money that will come back to the Luthuli House Etolls Sludge Fund.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeepiscool View Post
    I still wonder how they intend for the etol financial configuration to function now. Outa and others have said previously that 50% would go towards collection cost. Now they've given 50% off on the rates. So now 100% will go towards the collection cost?

    Time frames (for the loan repayment) and interest rates will solve that - the recovery of the capital will just take longer and the tax payer will foot the bill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4eJunior View Post
    and the tax payer will foot the bill.
    And this differs in what way with what happens anyway?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    And this differs in what way with what happens anyway?
    A much larger bill!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4eJunior View Post
    A much larger bill!
    Support your statement with a spreadsheet that shows the comparison between the previous toll rates plus other taxes compared to the current toll rates plus other taxes.

    If you can't, you're just guessing.

    We don't owe money to Kapsch for a loan, we owe them for operating costs.

    Loans are provided by the IMF and similar, so this has no impact if the government simply taxes us in other ways.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    Support your statement with a spreadsheet that shows the comparison between the previous toll rates plus other taxes compared to the current toll rates plus other taxes.

    If you can't, you're just guessing.

    We don't owe money to Kapsch for a loan, we owe them for operating costs.

    Loans are provided by the IMF and similar, so this has no impact if the government simply taxes us in other ways.
    'Other taxes' are irrelevant, in this case.

    If you don't understand that re-payment of the same capital amount with a smaller installment will extend the loan period, no spread sheet will convince you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4eJunior View Post
    'Other taxes' are irrelevant, in this case.

    If you don't understand that re-payment of the same capital amount with a smaller installment will extend the loan period, no spread sheet will convince you.
    I understand the concept. You misunderstand the loan conditions.

    The ZA government can settle the loan. They have the budget.

    It is stupid for us to repay SANRAL at higher cost over a longer period when in actual fact SANRAL is the government.
    Same as ESKOM: instead of a bloody 25% tariff increase, the government can extend a loan to ESKOM at a much lower impact to the economy.

    I fail to understand how you don't realise this is all smoke and mirrors.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    I understand the concept. You misunderstand the loan conditions.

    The ZA government can settle the loan. They have the budget.

    It is stupid for us to repay SANRAL at higher cost over a longer period when in actual fact SANRAL is the government.
    Same as ESKOM: instead of a bloody 25% tariff increase, the government can extend a loan to ESKOM at a much lower impact to the economy.

    I fail to understand how you don't realise this is all smoke and mirrors.

    From the SANRAL web site:

    When implementing a toll road, SANRAL raises funds by the issuing of bonds on the open markets to fund the initial capital costs, the interest of the initial capital costs, as well as operations, future upgrades and maintenance of the declared toll road.
    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    The ZA government can settle the loan. They have the budget.
    If the RSA fiscus repays the loan, where does that money come from?

    There is no pot of gold, only tax income.

    It is stupid for us to repay SANRAL at higher cost over a longer period when in actual fact SANRAL is the government.
    We are not re-paying the government, we are servicing a capital loan.

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