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  1. #381
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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    Quote Originally Posted by boobook View Post
    Re the "faint valve marks" on the piston crowns, both the inlet and exhaust valves should be ~1.0mm below the deck level of the cylinder head.
    There should be no way the piston can contact the valve heads when they are closed.

    However, if the timing is out then a valve may be sufficiently open at TDC for contact with the piston. Extreme case is when the timing belt fails with resulting bent push rods and snapped rockers.
    If the gasket is too thin, piston contact with the head is possible, similarly with worn BE bearings allowing the pistons to be flung beyond normal limits.

    Do you have the genuine Land Rover overhaul manual LRL 0081 (300Tdi engine, R380 gearbox and LT230T transfer box)
    Also the Discovery workshop manual LRL 0079
    These are a very comprehensive and worthwhile purchase for owner repair and upkeep.
    Regards...Mike
    Hi boobook

    Yes, I agree, incorrect timing can cause valves to strike pistons. Ironically, when I took my "new" green Tdi's engine apart, I found 2 pushrods bent like bananas and it was apparently running like that for some time, since no one can remember a cam belt failure!

    As you say, if the gasket is too thin (in other words piston protrusion too much) the valves will slightly contact pistons and I think that's what happened here.

    Yes, I have those manuals and I agree the info in them is indispensable.



  2. #382
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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    Hi antvz.
    Don't want to be a pedant here, but if you look at page 26 of LRL0081 you can clearly see that both inlet and exhaust valves have a stand down distance below the surface of the head. Regardless of the gasket thickness, the piston CANNOT contact valves when they are closed and the timing is correct.
    The reason for the stand down being that at TDC of the exhaust stroke, both valves are very slightly open. This is the valve overlap where the inlet begins to open before TDC and the exhaust closes after TDC.
    A variation of more than one tooth out on the timing belt WILL allow piston/valve head contact.
    I did agree that a too thin head gasket can allow the piston to contact the cylinder head but this would be obvious when rotating the engine.
    Disco 1 300tdi 1997
    Land Cruiser hzj75 1997
    Landy trayback s111 1976

  3. #383
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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    Quote Originally Posted by boobook View Post
    Hi antvz.
    Don't want to be a pedant here, but if you look at page 26 of LRL0081 you can clearly see that both inlet and exhaust valves have a stand down distance below the surface of the head. Regardless of the gasket thickness, the piston CANNOT contact valves when they are closed and the timing is correct.
    The reason for the stand down being that at TDC of the exhaust stroke, both valves are very slightly open. This is the valve overlap where the inlet begins to open before TDC and the exhaust closes after TDC.
    A variation of more than one tooth out on the timing belt WILL allow piston/valve head contact.
    I did agree that a too thin head gasket can allow the piston to contact the cylinder head but this would be obvious when rotating the engine.
    Thanks for clarifying this and explaining it clearly. I see what you mean now. Piston can strike the head but not the valves when protrusion is incorrect. Makes sense.



  4. #384
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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    Quote Originally Posted by antvz View Post
    Hi NinoZA

    Thank you for the encouragement! I can hardly even remember those first days, and my excitement with my first Land Rover. I named her La(n)dy, and despite all the hassles made almost 100 000 km of amazing memories. Now that she's just a shell, I really am sad to see her go.

    Her replacement is a 4-door green Disco 1, I'm calling him Fugard. At present he also needs an engine overhaul! And he inherited a lot of La(n)dy's good parts, like the turbo and injection pump, front bumper with winch, and spirit of adventure.

    These really are amazing vehicles and I will really think twice before driving anything else :-)
    Wow! Even more adventures ahead with Fugard! Congratulations on your second Landy. Hope to read about it here on the forum.

    Goodluck!
    'For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.' – Jeremiah 29:11 NIV

  5. #385
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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    Quote Originally Posted by NinoZA View Post
    Wow! Even more adventures ahead with Fugard! Congratulations on your second Landy. Hope to read about it here on the forum.

    Goodluck!
    Thank you so much!



  6. #386
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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    Quote Originally Posted by antvz View Post
    Ok, so today I finally got the big ends out. Cyl 1 is really in a terrible state, with a lot of material missing. Cylinder 2, one of the shells also has missing material. We'll never know how Cylinder 3 looked. Cylinder 4 is pretty much ok, except for a couple of score marks.

    Engine had just on 100 000 km.
    This post has been sitting in my head for while.

    Watch this first clip to see where he starts diagnosis.

    '07 Land Rover Defender 110 TDI 300 Kalahari (Meisiekind˛)
    '84 Land Rover Defender 110 V8 4-speed Hardtop (Meisiekind) Sold after 12 years of fun and hard work.
    The only thing needed for evil to triumph is for a good man to do nothing.

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  8. #387
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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    Then check out the next one. It all started with a crap bearing and what damage it caused.



    Really opened my eyes on quality parts, although I buy the must expensive I can afford, on certain builds somethings can't be comprised.
    '07 Land Rover Defender 110 TDI 300 Kalahari (Meisiekind˛)
    '84 Land Rover Defender 110 V8 4-speed Hardtop (Meisiekind) Sold after 12 years of fun and hard work.
    The only thing needed for evil to triumph is for a good man to do nothing.

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  10. #388
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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    Quote Originally Posted by jfh View Post
    This post has been sitting in my head for while.

    Watch this first clip to see where he starts diagnosis.

    Interesting to hear him say "usually these engines idle at around 55 pounds". 55 psi is about 3.7 bar! The only one on the Forum I know who is getting this sort of pressure, is jfh (as far as I know).



  11. #389
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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    But only when cold.

    Been watching a lot of his stuff, I don't always agree with what he does but it's a lot of experience.
    '07 Land Rover Defender 110 TDI 300 Kalahari (Meisiekind˛)
    '84 Land Rover Defender 110 V8 4-speed Hardtop (Meisiekind) Sold after 12 years of fun and hard work.
    The only thing needed for evil to triumph is for a good man to do nothing.

  12. #390
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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    Quote Originally Posted by jfh View Post
    But only when cold.

    Been watching a lot of his stuff, I don't always agree with what he does but it's a lot of experience.
    Yes, but even your hot running pressures are a lot more than the rest of us!

    It is really making me think about how I'm going to rebuild:
    - check all bearing clearances with plastiguage
    - have cam bearings done and line-bored whether they seem to need it or not
    - make sure oil pump housing clearance is well within spec, or else bite the bullet and pay R6k for a new rear cover
    ... and therefore aim to get pressures more in line with yours.

    What I'm learning from all of this, is that just ONE slightly iffy clearance can wreak havoc

    The company who rebuilt my engine - the guy told me on the phone, if I ever measure the bores I'll find they are first oversize even though they resleeved back to standard. That's because apparently when they put it all together, they realised they had ordered first oversize pistons, so they bored the new sleeves out to fit. It's this sort of oversight that made me wonder what else didn't fit correctly. I want to do everything in my power to make sure there are no openings this time round.

    I had a look at lrservicecentre.co.za - since they have an online shop - the standard size and 20 oversize bearings they sell, are Allmakes. The 10 oversize bearings are King. Both similarly priced. Pistons available are Britpart, Britpart OEM and KS, and Nural in one of the oversizes.

    Looking at the website of the benchmark, Turner Engineering in UK:
    - pistons = KS (they stock standard and oversize, at around Euro 60 each)
    - bearings = King (all sizes)

    Depending on shipping, might be worth while making up a package at Turner, including their special rear main seal, since their KS pistons are significantly cheaper than lrservicecentre. But I'll shop around...



  13. #391
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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    My current engine (in the green Landy) has 240 000 km on it. Never rebuilt, still original. Bores are worn but it was running nicely, just using too much oil, and pressures were also dropping.

    One Landy guy advises me to bore out and buy new pistons. Some other people say, measure the original pistons and resleeve rather if they are OK. First prize might be to resleeve AND buy new KS pistons, but again some advise rather NOT resleeving if not necessary, but just boring out. Others say it's prone to overheating then.



  14. #392
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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    I've never resleeved and rebored only twice, but on my engine I think if I have an excessive clearance I'd resleeve.

    But it must be done perfect.

    Watch the next few clips after that to see how he measures the engine and he also balances the conrods and pistons at his shop.

    Afterwards he mentioned that it's running very smooth.
    '07 Land Rover Defender 110 TDI 300 Kalahari (Meisiekind˛)
    '84 Land Rover Defender 110 V8 4-speed Hardtop (Meisiekind) Sold after 12 years of fun and hard work.
    The only thing needed for evil to triumph is for a good man to do nothing.

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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    Some nice stuff there.

    I would really love to go the "whole hog" with the engine and everything. Do it perfectly and leave no stone unturned. I hate struggling with this stuff and then ending up regretting it later...



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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    Quote Originally Posted by antvz View Post
    Some nice stuff there.

    I would really love to go the "whole hog" with the engine and everything. Do it perfectly and leave no stone unturned. I hate struggling with this stuff and then ending up regretting it later...
    I know, I would like a lot of money available when I do it, hopefully not, but usually it doesn't turn out that way.
    '07 Land Rover Defender 110 TDI 300 Kalahari (Meisiekind˛)
    '84 Land Rover Defender 110 V8 4-speed Hardtop (Meisiekind) Sold after 12 years of fun and hard work.
    The only thing needed for evil to triumph is for a good man to do nothing.

  17. #395
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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    Quote Originally Posted by jfh View Post
    I know, I would like a lot of money available when I do it, hopefully not, but usually it doesn't turn out that way.
    Exactly my problem.

    I bought this one (green one) knowing that it had blow-by, but it really ran very nicely and the car is overall in very nice condition, and unmolested. And the price was fair for both of us (buyer and seller).

    Yet, I thought I'd get about another year (maybe 15 000 km) to save, sell the white one for scrap, recover from buying a small runabout... and stuff like that.

    Only to find that this thing drinks oil like I'm gonna drink beer after coming out of lockdown!

    After opening the engine and having it measured, I just don't have the heart to slap it all back together again until I've sorted it out properly!



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  19. #396
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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    Gee guys, for that money why not a decent V8?
    2012 Jeep Sahara Unlimited 3.6 V6
    Percivamus

  20. #397
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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    Gee guys, for that money why not a decent V8?
    You mean a V8 Landy engine?

    Even at a conservative R1/km extra fuel cost, I've got the difference back within 20 000 km.

    I love all petrol engines, big and small, but the economy, practicality and relaxed drive of the Tdi grew on me a lot. Especially towing and loaded. And idling all day around tracks and trails and stuff. And 800 km range even before the aux tank.

    Every car has its purpose, but I've become a very ardent convert to the benefits of a nice diesel setup in a long-distance tourer. For a plaything around local places, that would be another story altogether!



  21. #398
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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    Gee guys, for that money why not a decent V8?
    No, not again. Had one, not the best but I love my oil burner now.

    Going anywhere now is half the money.

    All I miss is the sound.
    '07 Land Rover Defender 110 TDI 300 Kalahari (Meisiekind˛)
    '84 Land Rover Defender 110 V8 4-speed Hardtop (Meisiekind) Sold after 12 years of fun and hard work.
    The only thing needed for evil to triumph is for a good man to do nothing.

  22. #399
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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    The long term benefit of the 300tdi engine is that it does not suffer from that dreadful EGR system.
    Have seen the accumulated gunk in the inlet manifolds of so many diesels that I shudder to think how I might react if faced with the purchase of a replacement for either of my two 1997 diesel vehicles.
    As things stand, with possibly no more than 8-10 years of driving left, they will certainly see me out.
    Here in Ozz. there are plenty of 300tdi's in the 400k.km's range still going without ever being opened.
    Disco 1 300tdi 1997
    Land Cruiser hzj75 1997
    Landy trayback s111 1976

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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    I've just had the most quick and amazing response from Turner Engineering in the UK!

    How I wish I could just buy a reman engine from them and be done with it!

    But I asked them about parts supply to RSA, they courier everything (my only concern is Customs) - but I can get KS pistons (oversize) from them at much less than a local price I've seen here online. Although I haven't done my homework since obviously everywhere is closed - but their prices are very reasonable (you can see their website).

    Plus, then I'd be using the same parts they do in their rebuilds.

    Hopefully the engineering works I have in mind in RSA will do a good job of reboring, and line-boring the cam bearings... and cleaning everything up... but my Tata cylinder head came back from them very nicely done and cleaned and wrapped, and I liked their attitude... so I don't anticipate any problems.

    So I'm most likely going to order in the following from Turner:
    - 4 KS pistons, 2nd oversize
    - valve guides and valve stem seals
    - cam bearings
    - set of main and big ends (they use King bearings)
    - their special rear main seal
    - maybe an oil pump?

    Then I'll buy the other stuff locally.

    First step is now to start removing the engine and stripping it...

    And unfortunately a bunch of extra money has to be spent on the torque converter which was slipping...



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