My "new" Landy, with saga attached - Page 19





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  1. #361
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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    I had a good look at the broken conrod today. One of the bolt holes is empty. The other is demolished, snapped off. If one bolt is lost, this would cause a bending moment on the other side, causing a breakage as I observe. This is probably what happened.



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  3. #362
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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    Ok, so today I finally got the big ends out. Cyl 1 is really in a terrible state, with a lot of material missing. Cylinder 2, one of the shells also has missing material. We'll never know how Cylinder 3 looked. Cylinder 4 is pretty much ok, except for a couple of score marks.

    Engine had just on 100 000 km.



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  5. #363
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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    Quote Originally Posted by antvz View Post
    Ok, so today I finally got the big ends out. Cyl 1 is really in a terrible state, with a lot of material missing. Cylinder 2, one of the shells also has missing material. We'll never know how Cylinder 3 looked. Cylinder 4 is pretty much ok, except for a couple of score marks.

    Engine had just on 100 000 km.
    Sjoe! Not nice.
    '07 Land Rover Defender 110 TDI 300 Kalahari (Meisiekind˛)
    '84 Land Rover Defender 110 V8 4-speed Hardtop (Meisiekind) Sold after 12 years of fun and hard work.
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  6. #364
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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    What would cause bearings to get like this? Low oil pressure?



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  8. #365
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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    Quote Originally Posted by antvz View Post
    What would cause bearings to get like this? Low oil pressure?
    Not a clue. I've rebuild a few even seized up engines.

    Never seen a bearing do that.
    '07 Land Rover Defender 110 TDI 300 Kalahari (Meisiekind˛)
    '84 Land Rover Defender 110 V8 4-speed Hardtop (Meisiekind) Sold after 12 years of fun and hard work.
    The only thing needed for evil to triumph is for a good man to do nothing.

  9. #366
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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    Look like it had oil starvation. How much oil was left in the sump? Test the oilpump if you can. How is the viscosity of the oil? To thin? Diesel in the sump?
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  11. #367
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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam vd Merwe View Post
    Look like it had oil starvation. How much oil was left in the sump? Test the oilpump if you can. How is the viscosity of the oil? To thin? Diesel in the sump?
    Oil level wasn't low, and I checked regularly. Oil pressure was getting a bit on the low side when hot at highway speeds. I still had 4 bar when cold.

    Interestingly, the engine had a failure at just about 1000 km after remanufacture, which was also a bearing failure. They redid it again twice. But always, from the beginning, I was not entirely happy with the oil pressures. Very borderline. I suspect the front cover. Cam belt was also shredding, which points to one of the early front covers before the recall.



  12. #368
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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    Linebore wasnt done 100% Or bearings to much play. Can't realy say. Get some plastic gauge and measure rod and main bearing play
    Four wheels move the body,
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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    I'll post some pics of the damaged piston in No.3 cyl tomorrow. Conrod is very bent. I'm beginning to wonder if bearing seized and that broke the conrod off at the end, which then caused the piston to go flying and the conrod punched a hole in the block.

    It also makes sense that no. 1 cyl has the worst bearings. Furthest from oil pump. But then why did no.3 seize?

    Main bearings: I've only been able to get no.4 out. Bolts are very tight (obviously) and I'm using a no.14 ring spanner, which I bent beyond recognition. I'll invest in some euro sockets when I get to a proper tool shop.



  14. #370
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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam vd Merwe View Post
    Linebore wasnt done 100% Or bearings to much play. Can't realy say. Get some plastic gauge and measure rod and main bearing play
    Good idea.



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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    What make of bearings did they fit, those look like fatigue cracks.

    Usually if one reuses stretch con rod bolts and they decide to let go it is usually before 45k km.

    You can get plastigage and refit the rods and bearings to see what clearances you have now - can see if it is maybe not excessive clearances which would answer your saying oil pressure drops when hot.

    Do you tow a lot or lug the engine. How was the pump, injectors and timing. I would look here, basically the bearings have been pounded.

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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    Quote Originally Posted by HobieDave View Post
    What make of bearings did they fit, those look like fatigue cracks.

    Usually if one reuses stretch con rod bolts and they decide to let go it is usually before 45k km.

    You can get plastigage and refit the rods and bearings to see what clearances you have now - can see if it is maybe not excessive clearances which would answer your saying oil pressure drops when hot.

    Do you tow a lot or lug the engine. How was the pump, injectors and timing. I would look here, basically the bearings have been pounded.
    I don't have on record what make the bearings are. No, I would say about 15k of the 100k km was towing, and that only 750 kg. I do sometimes load heavily though, 7 people. It's an auto and works itself out comfortably between 2000 and 3000 rpm. Injectors were new, pump overhauled, and timing set on the pins. Engine ran very well, was economical and did not smoke much.

    Interesting is that there are mild valve marks on two other pistons. Yet a zero-hole gasket is fitted. Perhaps piston protrusion was borderline.

    I had a tapping sound on the engine at around 10 000 km. As I did on the previous reman. An indy at that stage thought it was incorrect piston protrusion. But when I changed to fully synthetic oil, the noise went away.

    The block is cracked in no.3 cylinder, the one that failed. I don't know if this is because of the failure or vice versa.



  17. #373
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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    Hi antvz.
    Having followed this story from the beginning I cannot help but believe you (actually, your 300tdi engine) have been the victim of some very shoddy repair, rebuild or re manufacture regarding the catastrophic failures.
    Land Rover 300tdi engines just do not fail like that, with big end bearings worn much worse they still do not have con. rod failure. I feel very sad for your outcomes, you should have been seeing 400,000km. on a "remanufactured" engine, not a measly 100,000.
    Big end bearings showing that amount of wear should have the copper/bronze colour of the base bearing material, not what looks like "white metal" (as used in the past) all the way through. Cheap and nasty is what it looks like, and may be installed in other parts of the engine also.
    There is a very interesting youtube series from Britannica Restorations, this bloke knows the ins and outs of 300tdi's, am sure you would pick up some good info from there and possibly communicate directly.
    All the best with your next rebuild, you have been very sorely tested.
    Cheers....Mike
    Last edited by boobook; 2020/03/27 at 05:20 AM.
    Disco 1 300tdi 1997
    Land Cruiser hzj75 1997
    Landy trayback s111 1976

  18. #374
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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    Quote Originally Posted by boobook View Post
    Hi antvz.
    Having followed this story from the beginning I cannot help but believe you (actually, your 300tdi engine) have been the victim of some very shoddy repair, rebuild or re manufacture regarding the catastrophic failures.
    Land Rover 300tdi engines just do not fail like that, with big end bearings worn much worse they still do not have con. rod failure. I feel very sad for your outcomes, you should have been seeing 400,000km. on a "remanufactured" engine, not a measly 100,000.
    Big end bearings showing that amount of wear should have the copper/bronze colour of the base bearing material, not what looks like "white metal" (as used in the past) all the way through. Cheap and nasty is what it looks like, and may be installed in other parts of the engine also.
    There is a very interesting youtube series from Britannica Restorations, this bloke knows the ins and outs of 300tdi's, am sure you would pick up some good info from there and possibly communicate directly.
    All the best with your next rebuild, you have been very sorely tested.
    Cheers....Mike

    This was a rebuild done 3x, by a what was thought to be a very reputable engine re-builder in the Eastern Cape...……….1st time when I still had Sokkies, then 2x after Anthony bought Sokkies from me.
    2015 Pajero Sport 2,5 Di-D 4x4 5-spd Auto, STOFPAD eng & gbox plate, new engine courtesy Mitsubishi at 95k km.

  19. #375
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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    Quote Originally Posted by boobook View Post
    Hi antvz.
    Having followed this story from the beginning I cannot help but believe you (actually, your 300tdi engine) have been the victim of some very shoddy repair, rebuild or re manufacture regarding the catastrophic failures.
    Land Rover 300tdi engines just do not fail like that, with big end bearings worn much worse they still do not have con. rod failure. I feel very sad for your outcomes, you should have been seeing 400,000km. on a "remanufactured" engine, not a measly 100,000.
    Big end bearings showing that amount of wear should have the copper/bronze colour of the base bearing material, not what looks like "white metal" (as used in the past) all the way through. Cheap and nasty is what it looks like, and may be installed in other parts of the engine also.
    There is a very interesting youtube series from Britannica Restorations, this bloke knows the ins and outs of 300tdi's, am sure you would pick up some good info from there and possibly communicate directly.
    All the best with your next rebuild, you have been very sorely tested.
    Cheers....Mike
    Thanks for the good wishes, Mike.

    At least now I have a little bit of experience. I'm going to rebuild the engine in my next Landy, myself. There are a lot of people who have valuable input to offer. Again, it might not be perfect, but at least I'll get to learn even more.

    If I can just get all the money together from the sales of the parts of the old one, I'll be pouring it straight into this rebuild. And with Lockdown, I have time to extract and dismantle that engine and clean everything up nicely, and even do some measurements to the best of my limited ability and tools.



  20. #376
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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    Quote Originally Posted by Thys Willemse View Post
    This was a rebuild done 3x, by a what was thought to be a very reputable engine re-builder in the Eastern Cape...……….1st time when I still had Sokkies, then 2x after Anthony bought Sokkies from me.
    Yes :-) The first of my failures occurred when my parents were driving it up from Gauteng to Limpopo for me. With only 1000 km on the engine. That engine got some severe bearing knock, also on a big end bearing if I remember correctly.

    What's strange is how unevenly the big end bearings wore. Fine on one cylinder, terrible on one, and bad on another. Presumably the cylinder that failed was the worst of the lot and there was a complete seizure. Boobook's theory that they were not good quality is also food for thought - something to consider when purchasing replacements again.

    Someone I spoke to who is knowledgeable about building these engines, says that bearing clearances might have been too big from the beginning. It's a reminder to me to check everything with plastiguage when fitting, and not simply rely on the machine shop having done everything to spec.



  21. #377
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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    Another thing that was observed, was faint valve marks on 2 of the other pistons. There was a zero-hole gasket fitted. I can't help wondering if the piston protrusions were a bit borderline, which caused those bearings to get a bit pounded. That would explain why the mains don't show any wear, which should be evident if there were serious oil-pressure or feed problems.



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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    Hi antvz,

    I stumbled upon this thread today and couldn't stop reading until the end. Your writing style got me hooked from the 1st post. Thank you for sharing your experiences and all the best with the rebuild!
    'For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.' – Jeremiah 29:11 NIV

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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    Re the "faint valve marks" on the piston crowns, both the inlet and exhaust valves should be ~1.0mm below the deck level of the cylinder head.
    There should be no way the piston can contact the valve heads when they are closed.

    However, if the timing is out then a valve may be sufficiently open at TDC for contact with the piston. Extreme case is when the timing belt fails with resulting bent push rods and snapped rockers.
    If the gasket is too thin, piston contact with the head is possible, similarly with worn BE bearings allowing the pistons to be flung beyond normal limits.

    Do you have the genuine Land Rover overhaul manual LRL 0081 (300Tdi engine, R380 gearbox and LT230T transfer box)
    Also the Discovery workshop manual LRL 0079
    These are a very comprehensive and worthwhile purchase for owner repair and upkeep.
    Regards...Mike
    Disco 1 300tdi 1997
    Land Cruiser hzj75 1997
    Landy trayback s111 1976

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    Default Re: My "new" Landy, with saga attached

    Quote Originally Posted by NinoZA View Post
    Hi antvz,

    I stumbled upon this thread today and couldn't stop reading until the end. Your writing style got me hooked from the 1st post. Thank you for sharing your experiences and all the best with the rebuild!
    Hi NinoZA

    Thank you for the encouragement! I can hardly even remember those first days, and my excitement with my first Land Rover. I named her La(n)dy, and despite all the hassles made almost 100 000 km of amazing memories. Now that she's just a shell, I really am sad to see her go.

    Her replacement is a 4-door green Disco 1, I'm calling him Fugard. At present he also needs an engine overhaul! And he inherited a lot of La(n)dy's good parts, like the turbo and injection pump, front bumper with winch, and spirit of adventure.

    These really are amazing vehicles and I will really think twice before driving anything else :-)



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