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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kers View Post
    Given the following, would you consider leaving this country to set-up home and start "over" in a new country:
    • I am relatively young with a young family (married with only one child of 1,5 years of age)
    • I am following a career in the engineering industry
    • The future of South Africa looks bleak and given the current situation things only look to deteriorate over the next couple of years
    Also, which countries would you consider? New Zealand, Canada, etc...?
    I'm in a similar boat.

    Went to the UK for business in the past month and I have to say I could really see myself living there (I know its spring so didn't exactly experience the worst weather).

    What really opened my eyes is the fact that the only time I felt stressed was when I knew my wife was driving to work or home. As South Africans we live with an enormous amount of stress about the safety of our families, very often subconsciously.

    I also realise that my kids will never have the privilege of riding their bicycles in the streets in SA like I did when I was a kid. During school holidays we used to go everywhere with our bikes, to friends, the corner caffee, etc. This is not that long ago!

    Very difficult decision to make, but I don't think it's fair to a child to be raised here.
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  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by achuman View Post
    I'm in a similar boat.

    Went to the UK for business in the past month and I have to say I could really see myself living there (I know its spring so didn't exactly experience the worst weather).

    What really opened my eyes is the fact that the only time I felt stressed was when I knew my wife was driving to work or home. As South Africans we live with an enormous amount of stress about the safety of our families, very often subconsciously.

    I also realise that my kids will never have the privilege of riding their bicycles in the streets in SA like I did when I was a kid. During school holidays we used to go everywhere with our bikes, to friends, the corner caffee, etc. This is not that long ago!

    Very difficult decision to make, but I don't think it's fair to a child to be raised here.
    A difficult decision to make, but think 20 years from now where would you be if you stayed in SA? With me the decision was not so hard as I made the right decision to leave Rhodesia when Mugabe took over however I lost boodles of money in the process.
    Friends of ours had to abandon their home and simply got their possessions together and walked out and locked the front door and they were not the only ones to do this. At the time we were only allowed to take our possesions and about R500 each.
    For us to enter Britain in 1993 was not too difficult, but now you have to undergo a series of security, medical and other checks unless of course you are an illegal immigrant.
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  3. #83
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    Here I shall stand till the end, I do not run away from problems I face them head on.

    I teach my kids the same thing, South Africa is my country as much as my fellows beings.

    Battle I will battle, but run I wont!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by AH Lessing View Post
    Here I shall stand till the end, I do not run away from problems I face them head on.

    I teach my kids the same thing, South Africa is my country as much as my fellows beings.

    Battle I will battle, but run I wont!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    We both love South Africa the country and people, however there is a time in your life when you have to make choices and I feel we made the right choice. Every one has choices and it is up to the individual to make the right choice.
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  5. #85
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    It's not easy to go, and it won't be easy if you stay.

    Write down the pro's and con's of each scenario and then make a decision.
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  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfer01 View Post
    We both love South Africa the country and people, however there is a time in your life when you have to make choices and I feel we made the right choice. Every one has choices and it is up to the individual to make the right choice.
    I am in agreement with you, no doubt.

    And my choice is to take whatever is coming head-on, my ancestors ran from Kenya to Zimbabwe and then to SA.

    No more!! It is about time that we (I mean people making the same choice as me) stand up and face whatever for what we love and believe in, obviously my choice.
    Last edited by AH Lessing; 2015/04/13 at 10:24 AM. Reason: spelling
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  7. #87
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    Some good points!

    I spent some time this past weekend going through a couple of threads on the forum. Found this post over the weekend by a forum member, pretty much sums up how I feel at this stage:
    Quote Originally Posted by omkeerpunt View Post
    I and others like me who chose to leave to find a better life elsewhere cares little whether South Africa is going over the edge tomorrow, in 20 years time or never. We simply can't live with the South Africa of today anymore and want something that we can not have in South Africa. We have all made this decision with great difficulty and within the framework of our own experiences. We do not say that it is not still the most beautiful place on earth from a tourist point of view. Nor do we say that this is the only way of thinking but for us this is the way to go to attain that something that we want that we can no longer have in South Africa.
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  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by achuman View Post
    Some good points!

    I spent some time this past weekend going through a couple of threads on the forum. Found this post over the weekend by a forum member, pretty much sums up how I feel at this stage:
    I am of the opinion that where ever one goes, you will not get what you wanted.

    History all over the world have shown that at some point in time you have to stand up for what you believe and support.

    I am not believing that SA will ever return to the old era, but I do believe I have as much right for my language and believe as anyone else.

    Therefore my choice to face whatever and make a stand!

    Believe me my education, background and finances allows me to leave if I want, but I wont, bring it on!
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  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by AH Lessing View Post
    Here I shall stand till the end, I do not run away from problems I face them head on.

    I teach my kids the same thing, South Africa is my country as much as my fellows beings.

    Battle I will battle, but run I wont!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I would hardly call it running, running makes emigration a negative thing. In a negative light you could define staying as "putting your head in the sand".

    I would rather objectively and positively like to believe that those who stay AND those who leave are making a brave decision and that both can be seen in a positive light.
    Leaving: Brave to leave everything and everyone you know behind and go on an adventure and hopefully in the process make a better life for you and your family.
    Staying: Brave that you are willing to stay and face the problems head on, not knowing the future and trying to make a difference where you can and hopefully in the process make a better life for you and your family.

    That is the mistake some make when they decide to emigrate, they move to get away from the bad instead of towards something wonderful and positive.

    Quote Originally Posted by AH Lessing View Post
    I am of the opinion that where ever one goes, you will not get what you wanted.
    There is no place on planet earth where you won't have to compromise. I'm willing to trade some sunshine for safety (not 100% improvement I know, people get robbed and killed everywhere).

    Having said all that, off course I will miss ZA. I will have to come to ZA at least twice a year for a Kruger and Langebaan holiday and for my kids to practice their Afrikaans . This is going to about a 2 year process for me, want to do my homework properly, take the missus over to explore, etc.
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  10. #90
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    Sadly prior to us leaving South Africa in 1993 we lost two friends due to robberies by the other side and that was when it was still under Nat party rule. Both were shot in different circumstances while taking wages to employees. Also another good friend who ran a security company was shot in the back by a former security guard also for wage money.
    After we left, friends of ours, a young couple with children, were gunned down in front of their children in New Germany and robbed of about R4000 the day's taking as he was an electrician. Another friend was stabbed in the back, but lived when he returned home to find two indigenous robbing his home.
    There are one or two other incidents that we know of however I feel fairly certain that many other South Africans have lost dear ones or close friends due to violence and that we are not the only ones.
    If crime reduced significantly and if I could get medication on a regular basis free for my disability, we may consider returning as we have a place to return to in Durban and we could live easily on our pension payments as South africa is a wonderful country with so much to see. We are glad that we saw a great deal of it before we left.
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  11. #91
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    The load shedding, xenophobic attacks, statue debacle, etc is making the decision easier by the day...
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  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by achuman View Post
    The load shedding, xenophobic attacks, statue debacle, etc is making the decision easier by the day...
    I just relocated to China on a long term basis, not because of all these things you mentioned, but for the adventure. But things are seriously wrong in South Africa and I can honestly say I am more happy here where people appreciate me, are friendly, chances of getting mugged or robbed are very low, everything works and cost of living is cheap. Surprisingly the city I am in compares better with Europe than anything in SA and the weather is not bad at all too.
    Last edited by camelman; 2015/04/18 at 10:50 AM.
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  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by camelman View Post
    I just relocated to China on a long term basis, not because of all these things you mentioned, but for the adventure. But things are seriously wrong in South Africa and I can honestly say I am more happy here where people appreciate me, are friendly, chances of getting mugged or robbed are very low, everything works and cost of living is cheap. Surprisingly the city I am in compares better with Europe than anything in SA and the weather is not bad at all too.

    I agree 100% with your viewpoint of it being an adventure! The bad things here just make me want to speed up the process.
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  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by achuman View Post
    I agree 100% with your viewpoint of it being an adventure! The bad things here just make me want to speed up the process.
    You only need to read some of Camelman's posts from a few months back to see how his viewpoint on life in SA has changed.

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  15. #95
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    Man, I have taken part in a few threads like this the past few months. I am in the same boat: Should I stay or should I go. Previously spent about 3.5yrs abroad (UK x 1, USA x 2.5) and loved it, especially the USA. Single, no wifey, no kids and in the civil engineering field, so it's easier for me.

    Some things I learnt over the last few months:

    * The first settlers to SA left Europe because they were not happy there with something, were persecuted, simply afraid or ambitious - they did not stick it out and fight to the end or try and make a difference there, no they left. Some came for the adventure, yes.
    * The Voortrekkers left the Cape because they were not happy with the Brittish rule, felt oppressed and mad. They did not stick it out and fight or try to make a difference, no they left northward.
    * Today we have people leaving SA for the same reasons. What is the difference? For me, none.

    It was the journey and challenges of the unknown that toughened them up, made them hardy folk. In other words, it was what they made of it. The world and challenges have changed a lot since then, granted.

    Thus I can never understand people calling those that leave SA "cowards", "deserters" or "sissies". We all stem from people that left somewhere else because they were unhappy with the then current situation, to be who we are now. Who are we to judge?

    To stay or to go. The struggle within.

    Friends & family, even familiar sounds, sight and smells (sounds soft I know, but it's true, just ask those that left) becomes precious once you are not here anymore. You miss it as your new world feels foreign, exciting and new yes, but still foreign. SA imprints on your very soul.

    Yet, one cannot turn a blind eye to the route SA is taking. Did any of us, 20yrs ago, think we would have traveled so far down this uncertain road we find ourselves on now? Yes there were some, but they were called pessimists and/or far-right wingers unable or willing to adapt. I am afraid time has proven them right when looking at the current state of affairs.

    Another point I noticed: People say SA is the land of milk and honey - according to whom? That depends which group in SA you ask - the top 10% or the bottom 90%. It is a ticking timebomb that will go off if not defused soon, the little red flags are jumping up more and more.
    Last edited by macjohnw; 2015/04/22 at 03:37 PM.
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  16. #96
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    "go over" you say. No one wants us, except third world places. Australia gave me the hardest time, I gave up. USA isn't looking better, and the EU can keep it to itself.

    The grass may not be greener, but I'll gladly swop freedom for policing if I could. I am sick of white and black and yellow and purple of all types behaving like animals on the road and in government.

    I get it, the advice is sound, and if I could get something that wanted me in the Aussie rural areas I would be there in a flash

    For now, I have to sleep with an eye open, and watch my back, and wait for the next ANC ruins to come down. These threads are all over the place, and they mean well, but reality is not as simple.

    Moving out of the country is a life-reboot. One can not simply restart your whole life, in a place where you will never _really_ know all the history and the culture and the jokes, food, people... and then 10 years later "jump back" and just reboot again.

    If someone wants me, I'll go, but it will be permanent.

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  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by macjohnw View Post
    Man, I have taken part in a few threads like this the past few months. I am in the same boat: Should I stay or should I go. Previously spent about 3.5yrs abroad (UK x 1, USA x 2.5) and loved it, especially the USA. Single, no wifey, no kids and in the civil engineering field, so it's easier for me.

    Some things I learnt over the last few months:

    * The first settlers to SA left Europe because they were not happy there with something, were persecuted, simply afraid or ambitious - they did not stick it out and fight to the end or try and make a difference there, no they left. Some came for the adventure, yes.
    * The Voortrekkers left the Cape because they were not happy with the Brittish rule, felt oppressed and mad. They did not stick it out and fight or try to make a difference, no they left northward.
    * Today we have people leaving SA for the same reasons. What is the difference? For me, none.

    It was the journey and challenges of the unknown that toughened them up, made them hardy folk. In other words, it was what they made of it. The world and challenges have changed a lot since then, granted.

    Thus I can never understand people calling those that leave SA "cowards", "deserters" or "sissies". We all stem from people that left somewhere else because they were unhappy with the then current situation, to be who we are now. Who are we to judge?

    To stay or to go. The struggle within.

    Friends & family, even familiar sounds, sight and smells (sounds soft I know, but it's true, just ask those that left) becomes precious once you are not here anymore. You miss it as your new world feels foreign, exciting and new yes, but still foreign. SA imprints on your very soul.

    Yet, one cannot turn a blind eye to the route SA is taking. Did any of us, 20yrs ago, think we would have traveled so far down this uncertain road we find ourselves on now? Yes there were some, but they were called pessimists and/or far-right wingers unable or willing to adapt. I am afraid time has proven them right when looking at the current state of affairs.

    Another point I noticed: People say SA is the land of milk and honey - according to whom? That depends which group in SA you ask - the top 10% or the bottom 90%. It is a ticking timebomb that will go off if not defused soon, the little red flags are jumping up more and more.
    Couldn't have said it better myself!
    Quote Originally Posted by marlonrc View Post
    "go over" you say. No one wants us, except third world places. Australia gave me the hardest time, I gave up. USA isn't looking better, and the EU can keep it to itself.

    The grass may not be greener, but I'll gladly swop freedom for policing if I could. I am sick of white and black and yellow and purple of all types behaving like animals on the road and in government.

    I get it, the advice is sound, and if I could get something that wanted me in the Aussie rural areas I would be there in a flash

    For now, I have to sleep with an eye open, and watch my back, and wait for the next ANC ruins to come down. These threads are all over the place, and they mean well, but reality is not as simple.

    Moving out of the country is a life-reboot. One can not simply restart your whole life, in a place where you will never _really_ know all the history and the culture and the jokes, food, people... and then 10 years later "jump back" and just reboot again.

    If someone wants me, I'll go, but it will be permanent.
    Please don't interpret this the wrong way, I ask out of interest as I need to kick off a similar process soon. What do you do for a living and have you got qualifications that Australia wants? Why did they give you a hard time?

    I know with the UK you HAVE to have a job offer and the company needs to prove that all the pommies that applied wasn't suitable for the job.
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