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Thread: D3 died

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byron View Post
    I agree with you but I do not think it is as simple as just swopping out a water pump. Maybe they should swop the whole engine with a V8
    Maybe they don't actually know how to fix it?

    So your D3 crank snaps at say 150 000km, you plead with Land Rover (at huge stress and expense to yourself) and they decide on "good will" to pay the majority of a new engine. What's stopping it from happening again?

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by hgbosch View Post
    Here are pics of the balancer and the part numbers.

    NB there was a change in cranks from 8A000001
    Thank you for the information ;-) I must say that i cant find the part number on the invoice when Land Rover Durban replaced the motor. Is it just their choice to replace the pulley or is it a procedure they are meant to follow as a land rover dealership for this specific job?

    Also with the different crank for cars post 8A000001...does that require a different pulley?

    By the way my disco is 8A456626


    Regards,

    Noel

    2008 Discovery TDV6 SE for me
    2012 Kia Picanto for wife

  3. #143
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    George, Here is the invoice from when they put in the new motor



    Last edited by Noel Arbuthnot; 2015/03/18 at 02:50 PM.


    Regards,

    Noel

    2008 Discovery TDV6 SE for me
    2012 Kia Picanto for wife

  4. #144
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    Checking on your part number you recieved the following:

    "Land Rover Discovery 3 & 4 and Range Rover Sport Stripped Engine, Genuine Number LR004729 or Exchange Number LR006701 - These Engines are Built by an OE Manufacture Includes Timing Belt and Cover Timed Up, Oil Filter Housing, Cam Covers, Oil Pump. Engine doesn't include turbo, injectors or ancillaries."

    This is not just the sub like I got - sub is R39000.
    My new sub has the new spec crank as should yours.
    Stay Safe
    Disco-Deon
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    Making today a great day.
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  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disco-Deon View Post
    Checking on your part number you recieved the following:

    "Land Rover Discovery 3 & 4 and Range Rover Sport Stripped Engine, Genuine Number LR004729 or Exchange Number LR006701 - These Engines are Built by an OE Manufacture Includes Timing Belt and Cover Timed Up, Oil Filter Housing, Cam Covers, Oil Pump. Engine doesn't include turbo, injectors or ancillaries."

    This is not just the sub like I got - sub is R39000.
    My new sub has the new spec crank as should yours.
    Thanks for the info Deon. So i see then that i got a new oil pump and water pump which is pretty important as far as i understand.

    I did realise that i didnt get new turbo and injectors..and i did end up replacing injectors since then. The major things left on my car that are now over 300 000km is the turbo and gearbox. Torque converter and compressor have been replaced and gearbox flushed. Currently everything works great including hand brake which i have been using all the time for the last 2 years...and i get no dashboard or computer warnings/errors at all lately. Gearbox feels like it works perfectly. I am gentle on my car and try not to do many short trips with it...i want it to last many many years :-) Next up at my next service is egr blank...possibly new crank pulley and i am considering poly teflon muti...still bit cautious bout that though


    Regards,

    Noel

    2008 Discovery TDV6 SE for me
    2012 Kia Picanto for wife

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noel Arbuthnot View Post
    Thank you for the information ;-) I must say that i cant find the part number on the invoice when Land Rover Durban replaced the motor. Is it just their choice to replace the pulley or is it a procedure they are meant to follow as a land rover dealership for this specific job?

    Also with the different crank for cars post 8A000001...does that require a different pulley?

    By the way my disco is 8A456626
    Hi Noël

    yes it will be the number starting with "LR" on the list I posted higher up. The old pulley and crank sprocket (for the cambelt) don't fit on the later crank.
    George Bosch
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  7. #147
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    George, i hope this problem with pulleys and bending and snapping of crankshafts doesn't affect the 3.9v8's

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by NvD42 View Post
    Please supply more info on this rebuild.. Was it only preventative ? Who is CME ?
    What was the cost ?

    Anybody else done this .

    Tx
    Nico
    Nico

    I don't want to discuss on the public Forum, since I am busy compiling a legal process with another supplier whose "new" sub-assembly only lasted 8000km with everything else proven to be functional an he is not coming to the party. I will reveal all of this in good time. I will PM you on CME whose service is fantastic.
    Ford Wildtrak 2016 A/T
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  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desperate Dan View Post
    George, i hope this problem with pulleys and bending and snapping of crankshafts doesn't affect the 3.9v8's
    No it does not, unless the front bolt comes loose, then the crank would be fubar.

    But if it has been torqued by the correct method as per the RAVE manual, then it wouldn't happen.

    Also the 3.9 V8 crank is a much much sturdier design, compared to the TDV6 crank.
    George Bosch
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  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noel Arbuthnot View Post
    Thanks for the detailed explanation....i however do understand this.

    What i was asking about is preventative maintenance such as replacing it? When i was looking at replacing it i gave a call to LP4A but as i mentioned they said its a waste to do and they have not ever even had to supply one by itself before and so could not (or probably didnt want to) give me a price and talked me out of it. I also asked the guy from Empangeni Land rover workshop who also said it would be silly to have done and said it was only the TD5 that would suffer from these issues.

    My car is on its second engine and is now on 302 000km but with the original harmonic balancer pulley thing as far as i understand. If that had anything to do with the first crank breaking...then i would have thought that a new pulley would be a good idea.

    The indy that serviced my car last said he feels there might be a slight vibration and reconned that the balancer pulley could be the caus... but as i mentioned land rover and LP4A didnt agree with that idea when i spoke to them
    Another VERY IMPORTANT point is that the mating surfaces of the crank sprocket and the balancer pulley must be ABSOLUTELY FLAT and FREE OF ANY DIRT OR SEALER RESIDUE!!!!

    Also the 6 bolts must be coated with loctite and then tightened diagonally first to about 8Nm and thereafter to the correct torque of 23Nm.

    It is of utmost importance that all six bolts are tightened exactly to 23Nm.

    There is a reason for this ......
    Last edited by hgbosch; 2015/03/27 at 02:52 PM.
    George Bosch
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  11. #151
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    Sorry guys for all your D3 problems, but it is a PEUGEOT engine after all! Need I say more? Blame LR all you like, but they didn't design the engine, neither can they control the way it's driven and serviced. That engine probably turns up in many other cars, with similar problems? I really don't know......

  12. #152
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    allan320....i have asked this question already and i havent heard of these problems on the peugeots. some have done 300k kms and no problem.
    So whats the problem and where?

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desperate Dan View Post
    allan320....i have asked this question already and i havent heard of these problems on the peugeots. some have done 300k kms and no problem.
    So whats the problem and where?
    IMHO - there are 2 differences between the Disco and the Peugeot.
    Weight - pushing around 2.5t puts a lot of stress on any motor.
    Servicing - from my little research LR is the only vehicle with this motor that has a 12 month 24K service intervals, others using the same motor have 6 month 12k service intervals.
    Stay Safe
    Disco-Deon
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    Making today a great day.
    Nerdy, 2011 Honda Jazz, 1500 Exc

  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disco-Deon View Post
    Checking on your part number you recieved the following:

    "Land Rover Discovery 3 & 4 and Range Rover Sport Stripped Engine, Genuine Number LR004729 or Exchange Number LR006701 - These Engines are Built by an OE Manufacture Includes Timing Belt and Cover Timed Up, Oil Filter Housing, Cam Covers, Oil Pump. Engine doesn't include turbo, injectors or ancillaries."

    This is not just the sub like I got - sub is R39000.
    My new sub has the new spec crank as should yours.
    Hi Deon

    unless they used the oil pump as in attached pic, you can light the fuse again

    LR007437 IS THE ONLY OIL PUMP TO USE, as it has the STRENGTHENED CAM TENSIONER MOUNTING
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by hgbosch; 2015/03/24 at 12:48 AM.
    George Bosch
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  15. #155
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    Here is what can happen with the old oil pump housing (7A to 9A early are most affected):
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	340276   Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by hgbosch; 2015/03/24 at 12:46 AM.
    George Bosch
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  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by hgbosch View Post
    Here is what can happen with the old oil pump housing
    Good Sir. While I have utmost respect for you as a person and as a very knowledgeable Landy and other motor man I sometimes wonder about your posts. Too often you are the prophet of doom - this in turn gives fuel to the Landy Bashers and affects the resale value of our most prized possessions.

    Just thinking out loud
    Last edited by Disco-Deon; 2015/03/24 at 07:33 AM.
    Stay Safe
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  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by hgbosch View Post
    Hi Deon

    unless they used the oil pump as in attached pic, you can light the fuse again

    LR007437 IS THE ONLY OIL PUMP TO USE, as it has the STRENGTHENED CAM TENSIONER MOUNTING
    Good day George.

    I presume that this improved pump is the one that land rover now fits instead of the older one ....at what stage did Land rover start using the improved one? My engine was replaced in beginning of 2013


    Regards,

    Noel

    2008 Discovery TDV6 SE for me
    2012 Kia Picanto for wife

  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disco-Deon View Post
    Good Sir. While I have utmost respect for you as a person and as a very knowledgeable Landy and other motor man I sometimes wonder about your posts. Too often you are the prophet of doom - this in turn gives fuel to the Landy Bashers and affects the resale value of our most prized possessions.

    Just thinking out loud
    Sounding like HaKa on the Ford T6...........
    FJC - Just Cruising

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    My take on this as a mechanic is as follows:

    I have three D3's on 'my books', IIRC there are only about five/six in the area anyway, they are all serviced meticulously by me.

    All three customers were gained due to the poor service the owners received at Land Rover dealer in this area of Spain. So having seen some of the LR 'workmanship' (I use that term with caution) I can see why the local LR dealership is taking in 'all makes' to keep the mechanics in employment.

    Interesting that the oil in my 20+ years old Land Cruiser 80 was cleaner after 3 months use than the oil that had 'apparently' been changed by LR only two weeks prior to the comparison.

    Another customer, stops at the service department because his suspension kept dropping overnight, the guy drives the car a couple of hundred yards up the car park and back, he declares the need to have the compressor replaced with the new upgraded unit, not convinced the owner spoke to others and they offered my name and number, two minutes with a spray containing soapy water confirmed a leaky air bag, replaced and all was perfect, that was over two years ago and the compressor is still perfect!

    So this indicates a 'lets just throw this part in and cross our fingers' approach, hardly worthy of a mechanic trained by a marque such as LR.

    I noticed someone pointed out that it is not LR's fault as they purchase the engines from Peugeot. Good point but, I have in the last couple of years replaced many (three in the last year) turbo chargers on the 1.6 TDCI engines in the FORD Focus and Fiesta... the engines are ALL Peugeot. Aha I hear you say let's give Peugeot a bashing but wait a moment, the turbo's on these engines are supplied by Garret and they are failing at around 70 to 100,000 km's!! I replace them with a Mitsubishi unit at half the price and end up with very happy customers. Now think about this, my Land Cruiser 80 has around 250,000 miles on the original Garret turbo!

    Witness: FORD small petrol engines, rough running, over revving like hell, poor starting, the problem, a rubber ring about 25 cents worth, it can be replaced with the new upgraded/modified version.

    LR, upgraded compressors, upgraded sensors, the new design cam belt widget,

    Peugeot, upgraded turbo chargers,

    Kia, upgraded/improved fuel tanks, the rubber coating inside is dissolved by...wait for it....FUEL........yes FUEL! Filters block and the engine stops, note this is the 4x4 model.

    Ford auto gearbox forgets how to shift gears when.........water leaking into the rear light clusters causes corrosion and prevents the left rear indicator from working correctly WTF! Fit the new upgraded weather strip and all is well......oh and the lighting cluster...oh and the connector.

    Skoda/SEAT/VW front suspension bushes falling apart within two years of ownership.

    OK there are hundreds of these and the fact I can recall them at ease is because they are repetitive faults, seen week in and week out.

    IMO, in the competitive markets we live in, more attention is paid to designing better looking 'day light' lamps than what goes into the developing the chassis/power plants. How the car 'looks' is more important, get the vehicle off the showroom and floor and laugh all the way to the bank!

    Cheap labour means parts can be made...well... cheap. The customer can do the development so what the hell! The customer has become the guinea pig, development/testing/redevelopment/re-testing costs money and it affects the profit margin. So what if the parts fail, the manufacturer has already got the 'new improved' version in manufacturing stage and can you see them offering them to the poor customer at cost?

    By nature most people purchase a newer car when replacing their existing one, I own a business that fixes cars, my vehicle choice? The aforementioned 20 year old LC and the 'firms van', an elderly Corsa diesel with no turbocharger/electronics all original approaching 300,000 kms! The LC is still being manufactured AFAIK but it is not allowed into Europe because it does not meet emission regulations...oh pleeeeease!

    I hope the above is a little food for thought, forums are always a great place to air your views but what are you going to do about it?

    If I had the finance I would start purchasing up shed loads of old vehicles and give them a good overhaul and resell them!

    OK I'm done........

    regards

    Dave
    Remember as an individual you are unique.......................just like everyone else

    Landcruiser HDJ80, UK spec (triple lockers ect)

  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noel Arbuthnot View Post
    Good day George.

    I presume that this improved pump is the one that land rover now fits instead of the older one ....at what stage did Land rover start using the improved one? My engine was replaced in beginning of 2013
    Hi Noël

    if you look higher up in that parts list posted by you the pump fitted was LR013487, still a current part (some companies struggle to learn from bad experience ) and it looks like the one in the picture below:

    the new latest pump design became available in late 2009, early 2010.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by hgbosch; 2015/03/24 at 12:24 PM.
    George Bosch
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