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Thread: D3 died

  1. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by GerritF View Post
    I also believed that I had one of the good ones.... My D3 was running smoothly very nice car and now is dead! If you want to take the chance? I know that one only hears of the one that brake and think is it just people complaining and not looking after their cars, till it happens to you. I should have sold it before 200 000km. I am sorry to say but I was never at ease while driving, always waiting for the bell and limp mode! It was a very nice car for the 100 000 km I had it, but when they brake, they brake big. It is the big brakes that are quiet and costly. Fortunaly every one has a choice, I made mine and believe that the D3 engine is quality wise sub standard and should not be in the car of this magnitude.
    Gerrit

    What is the final outcome with your motor? Is it fixed or sitting under a tree?

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    I may have missed on the answer to the following question which is, why do all oil companies and motor manufacturers warn strongly against the use of any type of oil additive? Surely if Poly-TFE has been proven to actually prevent or at least significantly reduce engine wear, oil companies or motor manufacturers would endorse the product.
    2007 Disco 3 V8 s

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobH View Post
    Nope, I'm not going to ask Peter. You made the claim, you should back it up. It's a bold claim and you've made it twice on this thread.

    No-one is denying your involvement in trying to get to the bottom of this problem and I'm sure it's greatly appreciated, but in nearly every one of your responses you punt the efficacy of your product. Turning every informative post into a cheap sales pitch detracts from the information given in this thread.
    Rob

    I still need to be shown the difference in the scoring from a bearing seizing from bad maintenance, incorrect oil, contaminants, cold start-up's, and broken oil pump, and a broken crank due to the above or "harmonics" which according to what I have read will also cause bearing scoring and a broken crank.

    These days I would have reservations about the maintenance records in the book on purchase, as my D3 still has a "mystery" entry from an LR dealer,
    Discovery 3 TDV6 S G4 No 29 - Mine
    Discovery 4 TDV6 SE - SWAMBO's

  4. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhodex View Post
    I may have missed on the answer to the following question which is, why do all oil companies and motor manufacturers warn strongly against the use of any type of oil additive? Surely if Poly-TFE has been proven to actually prevent or at least significantly reduce engine wear, oil companies or motor manufacturers would endorse the product.
    Poly-TFE is a solid like dust. Slippery, but dust.
    Discovery 3 TDV6 S G4 No 29 - Mine
    Discovery 4 TDV6 SE - SWAMBO's

  5. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhodex View Post
    I may have missed on the answer to the following question which is, why do all oil companies and motor manufacturers warn strongly against the use of any type of oil additive? Surely if Poly-TFE has been proven to actually prevent or at least significantly reduce engine wear, oil companies or motor manufacturers would endorse the product.
    That would have a very decisive negative effect for their P&A operations.

    I was today in the workshop of one of the two biggest indies in Gauteng (not Landyworx) and there were three D3's getting new sub assemblies.

    Had a long discussion with the owner of the business, explaining to him why going the Poly-TFE route would be beneficial to him and it looks they will now also come on board.

    The calculations are actually quite easy:

    1. Service - Lift is occupied for about 2 hours per vehicle

    2. Engine swop - Lift is occupied for at least 2 - 3 weeks.

    It doesn't matter how one does one's calculation. But engine overhauls are not a profitable business for garage owners, because they block workshop space for weeks on end, waiting for parts and engineering shops.

    And that is why more and more indies come on board.

    The more workshops that use Poly-TFE, the fewer engine failures we will have.

    It really is as simple as that.

    And this will help to improve the reputation of the TDV6 motor.
    Last edited by hgbosch; 2015/03/30 at 06:33 PM.
    George Bosch
    2003 RangeRover Vogue 3.0 Td6 (Mine) / 2005 LR Disco3 TDV6 S (Swambo's) / 1998 Disco1 Tdi ES (Sold) / And some more serious stuff

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  6. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jan Heyneke View Post
    I will not try to add to the very interesting technical discussion --- thanks to all for all the info! Unfortunately, it scares me a bit to again take my D3 into Botswana or Namibia --- but in the meantime I still enjoy driving my 8 yr old D3 !
    Om Jan , ry daai ding moenie worry nie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Sorg net alles is mooi gediens ens.
    Koos Best
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  7. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jan Heyneke View Post
    I will not try to add to the very interesting technical discussion --- thanks to all for all the info! Unfortunately, it scares me a bit to again take my D3 into Botswana or Namibia --- but in the meantime I still enjoy driving my 8 yr old D3 !
    Well I am taking mine next year... fed up of the scaremongering that is going on this site. Yes I feel really sorry for those who have been unlucky but let us have some real statistics to qualify the matter

    When will we get from the indies how may actual TDV6 failures there have been through their workshops. From the leading one in Durban it was 10 in 11 years since launch of the D3. One of the three main Durban LR dealers only had 4, everyone I spoke to said it was poor servicing or wrong viscosity oil used.

    Oh and by the way make sure your engine has and is being fed the right oil 5W-30 those that say well this is Africa we use 10W-40 semi synthetic read the link... that oil has a long way to go upto the filter and back down to the crank... it gets cold in Jo'burg right..

    http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-102/

  8. #268
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    Hi longclose

    This forum is fantastic when it comes to information on how to keep our toys on the road.

    You all know what to do. Once those preventative steps have been taken, then load up the Disco and venture into uncharted territory.

    You will love it and it will bring you back.

    Remember these are the really important steps you need to take, before you start on your trips.

    1. Do the Poly-TFE treatment. This is available from Indies in all major centres except in Bloem (not yet).

    2. Use 500ml of 2sO with every tank filling and you won't have to worry about getting stuck in Bots with the HPFP quitting its service.

    3. Change the thermostat plastic housing every 120000km. Koos Best has posted a brilliant "How To" on this topic.

    The above are the main items. Do them and enjoy your D3.

    I do, we travel about 20'000km a year all over South Africa with our D3.

    And check the Poly-V belt for cracks on the inside (ribbed). If not 100% replace it. It only costs around R185.00 from the dealers.

    One of the must have spares to take along is a spare fuel filter.
    George Bosch
    2003 RangeRover Vogue 3.0 Td6 (Mine) / 2005 LR Disco3 TDV6 S (Swambo's) / 1998 Disco1 Tdi ES (Sold) / And some more serious stuff

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  9. #269
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    Hi All

    this morning I set out to inspect the front balancer pulley.

    As it turned out, ours is still perfect. So I have left it.

    Attached are some pics. The tool I used to undo the fan nut,, pictures of a new pulley and the one on our car.

    As you can see, that pulley is ok, there are no cracks in the rupbber and the pulley runs true.
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    George Bosch
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  10. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by hgbosch View Post
    Hi All

    this morning I set out to inspect the front balancer pulley.

    As it turned out, ours is still perfect. So I have left it.

    Attached are some pics. The tool I used to undo the fan nut,, pictures of a new pulley and the one on our car.

    As you can see, that pulley is ok, there are no cracks in the rupbber and the pulley runs true.
    Why did you do that?
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD
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  11. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    Why did you do that?
    The poly-tfe in the engine oil could not lubricate that part... applying it manually?
    2013 Amarok d/c TDI 103kW 4motion

  12. #272
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rhodex
    I may have missed on the answer to the following question which is, why do all oil companies and motor manufacturers warn strongly against the use of any type of oil additive? Surely if Poly-TFE has been proven to actually prevent or at least significantly reduce engine wear, oil companies or motor manufacturers would endorse the product.


    I have posted in red my concerns of this reply.



    That would have a very decisive negative effect for their P&A operations.
    I can't believe this! This is an industry the employs the cream of engineering with a sum of them being PhD's in their field of Automotive, Metallurgy, Tribology Mechanical etc and that is your answer?

    I was today in the workshop of one of the two biggest indies in Gauteng (not Landyworx) and there were three D3's getting new sub assemblies.
    ( Thankfully ) Has this Indie never heard of the TOPIx Reference SSM71816 Where JLR give relief on vehicles that are less than 7 years old with less than 240k kms and a full service history. This could save his clients 70 to 150k in expenses.
    Had a long discussion with the owner of the business, explaining to him why going the Poly-TFE route would be beneficial to him and it looks they will now also come on board.

    The calculations are actually quite easy:

    1. Service - Lift is occupied for about 2 hours per vehicle

    2. Engine swop - Lift is occupied for at least 2 - 3 weeks.
    That is totally unnecessary when you can, once the engine is removed, replace the body and push the vehicle into another position in the workshop or even outside like the dealers do.
    It doesn't matter how one does one's calculation. But engine overhauls are not a profitable business for garage owners, because they block workshop space for weeks on end, waiting for parts and engineering shops.
    What!
    And that is why more and more indies come on board.
    Went down that road.
    The more workshops that use Poly-TFE, the fewer engine failures we will have. and up go the sales of PTFE. Read my post below

    It really is as simple as that.
    It really is as simple as that.
    And this will help to improve the reputation of the TDV6 motor.
    The reputation of the TDV6 motor has been damage by over exploded myths highly publicized on forums with no concrete proof or actual scientific evidence to back it up.


    Hi George
    Please don't quote me out of context or Landyworx for that matter. You have been well aware of my sentiments on PTFE since April last year when my own car ran bearings. My car was treated with PTFE every 10k kms for 80k kms. You were present at CME when my car was stripped, you witnessed the damage to the main bearings, you also witnessed the way my big end bearings were worn down on one side only and furthermore you witnessed the micrometre reading on my crank shaft journals, they were all oval. I asked you what you had to say about that. You just brushed it off to say that the engine was damaged before I started the treatment and the fact that by my admission there was a piece of foreign body in my oil pickup and if it was not for PTFE I would have not got home from my trip. Granted there are unproven merits. Despite the fact that every 10k my car was dosed with 200mil of concentrate PTFE contrary to your recommendation of only dosing every 50k kms ( after 4 oil changes). You quote me as saying I have the highest success ratio in engine failure on the TDV6 motors after me telling you that I have approx. 650 disco 3 and 4's on my books of which 95% are diesel engines. I have a total of 7 engine failures of run bearings on cars that were serviced by my facility of which 5 including my own were Disco's and one TDV8 RRS were all treated with PTFE and one that was not treated and that car drove in with a knocking noise in the engine. Another five motors were brought in where we never worked on them, one of them had a snapped crankshaft and one with a conrod through the block, both had extensive bearing damage and you even witnessed one of them where the bearing shell melted into the crank journal which caused the crankshaft to break, you photographed that at JB engineering.
    I must admit that in the early days I was very naïve and really put a lot of trust into your product, even so far as to consult with a top tribologist who had his doubts but did say that PTFE is probably the most slippery substance on earth, you still forwarded me the report from the polish university to pass onto him, still not convinced.
    The biggest crunch was last year I had 4 motors with major bearing damage, which I intensely debated with you only to be brushed off. All of those motors had regular oil testing done with absolutely no wear metals indicated, further all oil testing done on vehicles treated with PTFE show up with extremely raised silicon levels compared to an untreated motor which does not show any silicon at all. The lab technician all ways reported the cause as been high dust ingress which was alarming.
    In closing I would like to hear from you is an explanation as to why:
    PTFE as and additive or treatment banned in the USA. Please explain to the forum as you explained to me about a product called Slick50 and why it was taken off the market.
    DuPont the world wide owners of the patent to PTFE categorically state the product is not suitable for the use in the Automobile engines.
    There is another article posted on this forum by Malcom van Coller where it states that PTFE does not bond to a metal surface unless heated to an excess of 800 deg C. We all know that an automobile engine never reaches to that temperature with out catastrophic failure.
    How come we have never seen any certification from Kalgard the manufacturer of your product under license to DuPont endorsing your product suitable for automobile engines. All of the other competitive products provide endorsement on their containers in as much as 5 different languages.
    PTFE as a product is extremely successful like no other product used in the mining industry, canning industry or any mechanical plant for that matter because after all it is the slipperiest substance on earth, but I have never seen any data that justifies that the product is suitable for any combustion engines and that it does provide a solution.
    The contents of this post is based on my own opinion and experiences and is with out prejudice.

    http://www.overlandworx.com

    Take Care
    Stay frosty (Be alert at all times: We Live in a war zone)
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  13. #273
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    Quite frankly, I am in deep shock.

    Honestly.

    And I am NOT getting at anybody or pushing buttons.
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD
    3 V8's
    NA TwinTurbo SuperCharger
    A V6 and an inline 4

    The frogs are starting to notice that the water is getting warm but it is already too hot to do anything about it.....

  14. #274
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    Coming from the Great White Induna that is a scathing response.
    Peter, are you saying that you no longer support PTFE for TDV6, or any other automotive engines?
    Stay Safe
    Disco-Deon
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    Making today a great day.
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    Hi, Peter based on your stats there is less then 1% chance that my bearings will turn. Hope to meet you on Wednesday, bringing my disco for its first service there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Disco-Deon View Post
    Coming from the Great White Induna that is a scathing response.
    Peter, are you saying that you no longer support PTFE for TDV6, or any other automotive engines?
    Hi Deon
    Yes categorically I do not support the use of PTFE or any other product as and additive to the extremely superior quality engine oils on the market to day. I cannot be a hypocrite and endorse a product that in my heart have no faith in. This post was culminated from very deep research into engine oils and additive packages included all based on the industry norm, and further many in depth debates with George whom I have and always will have an enormous amount of respect for, just come to dead end.
    I get inundated with phone calls from all over and all walks like Indies, Magazine editors and general public wanting my opinion on the product and my answer over the last six months or more is that I do not have faith in the product. This shouldn't come as a surprise to George because I am sure he has had feed back form certain Indies and a magazine in question.
    If you take the volume of TDV6 Disco 3 and 4's out there that are not using PTFE and compare a very small quantity that are using PTFE the failure rate pro rata is no different so where is the added value. This once again is based entirely based on my own personal opinion and experience.

    http://www.overlandworx.com

    Take Care
    Stay frosty (Be alert at all times: We Live in a war zone)
    Peter Street
    0834535374

    2013 Disco 4 SDV6 HSE 8sp AKA " Gr8 White Induna"
    2019 Disco 5 TD6 HSE AKA Disco V





  17. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgwinduna View Post
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rhodex
    I may have missed on the answer to the following question which is, why do all oil companies and motor manufacturers warn strongly against the use of any type of oil additive? Surely if Poly-TFE has been proven to actually prevent or at least significantly reduce engine wear, oil companies or motor manufacturers would endorse the product.


    I have posted in red my concerns of this reply.



    That would have a very decisive negative effect for their P&A operations.
    I can't believe this! This is an industry the employs the cream of engineering with a sum of them being PhD's in their field of Automotive, Metallurgy, Tribology Mechanical etc and that is your answer?

    I was today in the workshop of one of the two biggest indies in Gauteng (not Landyworx) and there were three D3's getting new sub assemblies.
    ( Thankfully ) Has this Indie never heard of the TOPIx Reference SSM71816 Where JLR give relief on vehicles that are less than 7 years old with less than 240k kms and a full service history. This could save his clients 70 to 150k in expenses.
    Had a long discussion with the owner of the business, explaining to him why going the Poly-TFE route would be beneficial to him and it looks they will now also come on board.

    The calculations are actually quite easy:

    1. Service - Lift is occupied for about 2 hours per vehicle

    2. Engine swop - Lift is occupied for at least 2 - 3 weeks.
    That is totally unnecessary when you can, once the engine is removed, replace the body and push the vehicle into another position in the workshop or even outside like the dealers do.
    It doesn't matter how one does one's calculation. But engine overhauls are not a profitable business for garage owners, because they block workshop space for weeks on end, waiting for parts and engineering shops.
    What!
    And that is why more and more indies come on board.
    Went down that road.
    The more workshops that use Poly-TFE, the fewer engine failures we will have. and up go the sales of PTFE. Read my post below

    It really is as simple as that.
    It really is as simple as that.
    And this will help to improve the reputation of the TDV6 motor.
    The reputation of the TDV6 motor has been damage by over exploded myths highly publicized on forums with no concrete proof or actual scientific evidence to back it up.


    Hi George
    Please don't quote me out of context or Landyworx for that matter. You have been well aware of my sentiments on PTFE since April last year when my own car ran bearings. My car was treated with PTFE every 10k kms for 80k kms. You were present at CME when my car was stripped, you witnessed the damage to the main bearings, you also witnessed the way my big end bearings were worn down on one side only and furthermore you witnessed the micrometre reading on my crank shaft journals, they were all oval. I asked you what you had to say about that. You just brushed it off to say that the engine was damaged before I started the treatment and the fact that by my admission there was a piece of foreign body in my oil pickup and if it was not for PTFE I would have not got home from my trip. Granted there are unproven merits. Despite the fact that every 10k my car was dosed with 200mil of concentrate PTFE contrary to your recommendation of only dosing every 50k kms ( after 4 oil changes). You quote me as saying I have the highest success ratio in engine failure on the TDV6 motors after me telling you that I have approx. 650 disco 3 and 4's on my books of which 95% are diesel engines. I have a total of 7 engine failures of run bearings on cars that were serviced by my facility of which 5 including my own were Disco's and one TDV8 RRS were all treated with PTFE and one that was not treated and that car drove in with a knocking noise in the engine. Another five motors were brought in where we never worked on them, one of them had a snapped crankshaft and one with a conrod through the block, both had extensive bearing damage and you even witnessed one of them where the bearing shell melted into the crank journal which caused the crankshaft to break, you photographed that at JB engineering.
    I must admit that in the early days I was very naïve and really put a lot of trust into your product, even so far as to consult with a top tribologist who had his doubts but did say that PTFE is probably the most slippery substance on earth, you still forwarded me the report from the polish university to pass onto him, still not convinced.
    The biggest crunch was last year I had 4 motors with major bearing damage, which I intensely debated with you only to be brushed off. All of those motors had regular oil testing done with absolutely no wear metals indicated, further all oil testing done on vehicles treated with PTFE show up with extremely raised silicon levels compared to an untreated motor which does not show any silicon at all. The lab technician all ways reported the cause as been high dust ingress which was alarming.
    In closing I would like to hear from you is an explanation as to why:
    PTFE as and additive or treatment banned in the USA. Please explain to the forum as you explained to me about a product called Slick50 and why it was taken off the market.
    DuPont the world wide owners of the patent to PTFE categorically state the product is not suitable for the use in the Automobile engines.
    There is another article posted on this forum by Malcom van Coller where it states that PTFE does not bond to a metal surface unless heated to an excess of 800 deg C. We all know that an automobile engine never reaches to that temperature with out catastrophic failure.
    How come we have never seen any certification from Kalgard the manufacturer of your product under license to DuPont endorsing your product suitable for automobile engines. All of the other competitive products provide endorsement on their containers in as much as 5 different languages.
    PTFE as a product is extremely successful like no other product used in the mining industry, canning industry or any mechanical plant for that matter because after all it is the slipperiest substance on earth, but I have never seen any data that justifies that the product is suitable for any combustion engines and that it does provide a solution.
    The contents of this post is based on my own opinion and experiences and is with out prejudice.
    Hi there Peter

    Can you tell us the MYs for the Disco's that had run bearings please?

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    Well, i am in shock .
    I appreciate the fact that us laypeople in terms on motors and engineering listen to peter. The thing is peter always speaks the truth as he knows and believes in it. He believed in ptfe, and now he doesnt. no sugar coating. He changed in mind which he is entitled to do, when he sees the proof.
    I spoke to peter about a a year or so ago and he said put in the ptfe treatment. which i did in the v8 petrol and also in the car engine.
    Now i hear this and my heart is shaking in fear that i may have problems with my engines? Need to do an oil change quickly.

    Now the big questions are:
    Did peter's D3 have a damaged harmonics damper problem?
    Is the ptfe still good for gearboxes?
    I am pretty sure that no one will use it in engines anymore.

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    Well at last the facts are starting to come out, I deliberately did not want to get into the PTFE debate as everything stated by tgwinduna I had found and researched myself and am not prepared to press buttons.

    As an Engineer I work on facts and statistics which are putting to bed the scaremongering caused by individual failure cases. Thanks for your honesty tgwinduna

    So what we are all beginning to glean from the revelations in this post is that actually your Landrover D3 TDV6 engine is less likely to fail than a BMW, Audi or VW according to the research in the UK as from the figures demonstrate a 1% failure.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...?frame=2457914

    Any other indies out there want to put their scores on the doors and help us all rebuild the confidence in these fine - somewhat temperamental vehicles - well its a Landrover love hate relationship.

    PS. it does not change the fact if it fails and you cannot afford to fix it or have insurance - don't buy it, especially as the 7 years on covering the engine by LR is coming to an end.

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    Gosh this is a lot like the Great S02 debate. Vocifouris opinions abound but very little fact. I like the recent post on SO2 which was presented to a peer review conference. Many rubbished the finding but like all findings it points to a direction of research and further study may provide more insight, but at least it is a good starting point and should provide pause for those considering the magic mooty.

    The PTFE seems like a similar topic. Show a guy in a white coat playing around with the stuff with an engine in the background and it must be scientific! If this were proven then, surely it would be endorsed by at least some OEM's. Particularly if it provided the level of protection claimed.

    Just like in a theological debate, it does not matter how passionately you believe something. What counts is how closely your belief is supported by the observable evidence and empirical data.

    I remain a fan of good oils and filters changed at regular intervals (probably more regularly than the OEM spec requires.) Every manufacturer has some duds. There were the early 320D BMWs, Golf Tdi's, Toyota 3000TD, even the venerable KZTE seems to have some issues.

    I think the main issue as long close describes, is to be aware that you are buying a 700-1M vehicle, second hand, and while you may pick it up cheaply second hand, just do so with your eyes wide open and ensure that you have a war chest stashed away - just in case. I could not afford the vehicle new, or the depreciation, new, and frankly cannot afford a 100k engine bill, so I run a cheaper vehicle.

    Would still love another Solihull product and this talk of 4.6 auto defenders may well be my next daily driver when my VW gives up the ghost.

    Cheers
    Stephen

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