Hydro-electrical tidal pools... Why not?





Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 36
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Worcester
    Age
    57
    Posts
    4,563
    Thanked: 1227

    Default Hydro-electrical tidal pools... Why not?

    I've often wondered why we do not try to harness the normal flow of rivers into the sea by fitting hydro-electrical turbines into the rivers.... Not very unlike the Ruacana system, but on a more general scale. There are plenty rivers flowing into the sea unharnassed.

    If the wind-generator farms are working from all over, why not rivers?

    I'm sure there are many problems I've not considered such as silt, floods, etc (all of which I'm sure a plan can be made with), but I'm sure it can be done.

    Now I see that the UK is going a step further. They want to build a tidal pool to do this. Once again, it's been talked about for probably more than a year.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXEmHDQtXnw

    Question: Why has this not ever been done anywhere?

    PS: Mods, I'm not sure that this belongs in this section... please move it if need be.
    Live.
    Love.
    Laugh.

    André Opperman


    "Boerbok" - 98 Jeep XJ 4lit auto
    "Gloria" - 04 Ranger D/C 4lit auto

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Gordon's Bay
    Age
    49
    Posts
    28,874
    Thanked: 4378

    Default

    Tidal power is massive and energy friendly. (the energy is provided by the moon , and the energy was expended a few billion years back...)

    if you could put generators across the entrance to false bay alone the water running in and out would provide about 4 times more than all the power required in the world.

    obviously there are the slack water periods where no movement happens.

    and it's not really feasible, it's just too much concrete and all the rest.


    An interesting one I saw a few years back was hanging generators into the ocean currents - they are also driven by the moon and are far more reliable than wind or tidal rises.

    don't know what happened to that idea...

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    CT
    Age
    43
    Posts
    1,024
    Thanked: 4

    Default

    Several years ago I visited the current flow turbines up near Wick in the north of Scotland. These sit is a location of strong current, so are less dependent on tides etc. The tech exists, but not necessarily viable I assume (yet).

    Also looked at the proposals to use the Severn estuary as a tidal barrier (it experiences some of the biggest tidal variances in the world I believe), but the cost and the environmental devastation seemd to rule it out. Simply put, it remained cheaper to import coal and gas and burn that to generate electricity.
    2011 Fortuner D4D 4x4
    2012 Mini-Metalian Trailer

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Strand
    Age
    47
    Posts
    205
    Thanked: 1

    Default

    The maintenance of the sea based generators was too high. So they stopped most. salt not a very friendly medium.
    Torch

    Daihatsu Feroza
    1,8 (Toyota 7AGE) custom build
    20V silvertop head
    weber sidedraughts
    30' KL71 muds
    Winch

    Platkar: Tucson CRDi
    Buell XB12

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Pretoria
    Age
    41
    Posts
    933
    Thanked: 3

    Default

    There was a program on TV a few years ago where they built a pilot installation with a water impeller in a river.
    IIRC it was installed to provide power to a mall adjacent to the river.

    The problems they encountered made it obvious that it is a high risk solution.

    They had massive problems with the installation (if the current is strong enough to make it worth the while, it is strong enough to make installation very difficult).

    During 'normal' flow periods, it worked well, but every flood wrecked the installation.
    Debris, extreme currents etc.

    I think they eventually removed it, IIRC.


    I think pumped storage is a better solution.

    "Two things are infinite. The universe and human stupidity. ..... and I'm not so sure about the universe"
    Albert Einstein

    If you see spelling mistakes in my posts, use as many of the goodies below as required to fix it!
    ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
    abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0123456789
    - '

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Edenvale
    Age
    49
    Posts
    1,493
    Thanked: 163

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Torch View Post
    The maintenance of the sea based generators was too high. So they stopped most. salt not a very friendly medium.
    Agreed. The technology is there but the corrosive nature of the salt as well as the abrasive nature of silt in the water has hampered the introduction of this form of emergy porduction.

    I have seen (can't remember which rivers) where water is diverted into lateral man made channels along rivers and the flow drives energy production... not sure why it is not routine on all permanent rivers where flow rates are acceptable etc.
    Gary
    2005 Nissan X-Trail 2.5 4x4 (SOLD)
    2006 Honda Civic 1.8 VXI (It's complicated)
    2005 Mitsubishi Pajero 3.2 Di-D GLX LWB (Yay!)

    4x4 Action Group GP0114

    What would you do if you knew you could not fail

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    CT
    Age
    43
    Posts
    1,024
    Thanked: 4

    Default

    There is a good reason why most hydro projects involve a very large dam. Consistent head and available volume make for consistent power generation. Also no debris (or at least less of it) make it easier. The only issue is the huge cost of the damn dam ...
    2011 Fortuner D4D 4x4
    2012 Mini-Metalian Trailer

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Worcester
    Age
    57
    Posts
    4,563
    Thanked: 1227

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 4eJunior View Post
    .
    During 'normal' flow periods, it worked well, but every flood wrecked the installation.
    Debris, extreme currents etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by gazza1210 View Post
    I have seen (can't remember which rivers) where water is diverted into lateral man made channels along rivers and the flow drives energy production... not sure why it is not routine on all permanent rivers where flow rates are acceptable etc.
    My point exactly.... Surely it cannot be so prohibitively expensive to fit it in an adjacent canal where water can by diverted to (and away from in flood timess) as and wehen needed? By doing this silt can also be minimised.
    Live.
    Love.
    Laugh.

    André Opperman


    "Boerbok" - 98 Jeep XJ 4lit auto
    "Gloria" - 04 Ranger D/C 4lit auto

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Edenvale
    Age
    49
    Posts
    1,493
    Thanked: 163

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Oppers View Post
    My point exactly.... Surely it cannot be so prohibitively expensive to fit it in an adjacent canal where water can by diverted to (and away from in flood timess) as and wehen needed? By doing this silt can also be minimised.
    Flooding is an issue but the channels can be blocked off and the system shut down prior to flood events. As for consistent water flow, the flow rate and the turbine size can be matched / optimised for efficiency.

    In the misty parts of my brain I seem to remember that it was something to do with the associated infrastucture / connection to the grid that was partly the problem... but I'm old and forgetful so don't quote me.

    I've always thought this to be a viable alternative form of energy production so would also like to know why it is not carried out...
    Gary
    2005 Nissan X-Trail 2.5 4x4 (SOLD)
    2006 Honda Civic 1.8 VXI (It's complicated)
    2005 Mitsubishi Pajero 3.2 Di-D GLX LWB (Yay!)

    4x4 Action Group GP0114

    What would you do if you knew you could not fail

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Centurion
    Age
    42
    Posts
    12,172
    Thanked: 863

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 4eJunior View Post

    I think pumped storage is a better solution.
    But pumped storage doesn't generate power....
    Overkill - isn't!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Pretoria
    Age
    41
    Posts
    933
    Thanked: 3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Uys View Post
    But pumped storage doesn't generate power....
    Really?

    eg the Sterkfontein pumped storage scheme:

    The scheme provides for up to 27.6 gigawatt-hours (99 TJ) of electricity storage in the form of 27,000,000 cubic metres (950,000,000 cu ft) of water. The water is pumped to Driekloof during times of low national power consumption (generally over weekends) and released back into Kilburn through four 250 megawatts (340,000 hp) turbine generators in times of high electricity demand.
    Read here

    .. or here for a nice picture of how it works.

    "Two things are infinite. The universe and human stupidity. ..... and I'm not so sure about the universe"
    Albert Einstein

    If you see spelling mistakes in my posts, use as many of the goodies below as required to fix it!
    ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
    abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0123456789
    - '

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    East London
    Age
    35
    Posts
    16,927
    Thanked: 2252

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Does it matter
    Age
    32
    Posts
    155
    Thanked: 188

    Default

    I saw an article recently where a similar idea has been implemented in Australia. Don't really remeber the specifics but essential the tides were used to pump water onto land and then ollwed to flow back into the sea to generate power.

    Seemded like a great idea

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    klerksdorp
    Age
    61
    Posts
    705
    Thanked: 99

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 4eJunior View Post
    Really?

    eg the Sterkfontein pumped storage scheme:



    Read here

    .. or here for a nice picture of how it works.
    It still does not generate power it just stores it

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    East London
    Age
    35
    Posts
    16,927
    Thanked: 2252

    Default

    I have also seen a design where a fixed tube is installed with the ocean level halfway. Open top and open bottom.

    However, on top there is a fan that turns one way regardless if air is coming in or going out. similar to this - it turns only one way regardless of where the wind come from



    Something like this - I can't find the video

    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by MariusFourie; 2015/03/02 at 02:51 PM.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Pretoria
    Age
    41
    Posts
    933
    Thanked: 3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnybritz View Post
    It still does not generate power it just stores it
    Technically (semantically) you are correct, I suppose.
    Let's not get entangled in semantics, though.
    We are having a decent discussion here.

    Off-peak power is lost if it is not used (power stations don't shut down partly).
    If that capacity is used in a pumped-storage scheme, it makes sure it is not lost.

    So if it is not lost (but 'stored'), it is as good as being 'generated' in peak time.
    A pumped storage scheme therefore reduces the total requirement for generating capacity.

    "Two things are infinite. The universe and human stupidity. ..... and I'm not so sure about the universe"
    Albert Einstein

    If you see spelling mistakes in my posts, use as many of the goodies below as required to fix it!
    ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
    abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0123456789
    - '

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Centurion
    Age
    42
    Posts
    12,172
    Thanked: 863

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 4eJunior View Post
    Really?

    eg the Sterkfontein pumped storage scheme:



    Read here

    .. or here for a nice picture of how it works.
    Ek verstaan hoe werk pumped storage..... Ongelukkig gebruik die pompe meer energie as wat die turbines kan opwek... Hulle is eintlik nett verbruikers.
    Overkill - isn't!

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Bellville
    Age
    60
    Posts
    11,661
    Thanked: 727

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Oppers View Post
    My point exactly.... Surely it cannot be so prohibitively expensive to fit it in an adjacent canal where water can by diverted to (and away from in flood timess) as and wehen needed? By doing this silt can also be minimised.
    Quote Originally Posted by gazza1210 View Post
    Flooding is an issue but the channels can be blocked off and the system shut down prior to flood events. As for consistent water flow, the flow rate and the turbine size can be matched / optimised for efficiency.

    In the misty parts of my brain I seem to remember that it was something to do with the associated infrastucture / connection to the grid that was partly the problem... but I'm old and forgetful so don't quote me.

    I've always thought this to be a viable alternative form of energy production so would also like to know why it is not carried out...
    Is this not basically what they plan for Augrabies ? I seem to recall a huge forum bun fight about that one.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Pretoria
    Age
    41
    Posts
    933
    Thanked: 3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Uys View Post
    Ek verstaan hoe werk pumped storage..... Ongelukkig gebruik die pompe meer energie as wat die turbines kan opwek... Hulle is eintlik nett verbruikers.
    Feit is hulle gebruik energie wat andersins gladnie gebruik sou gewees het nie (off-peak).

    "Two things are infinite. The universe and human stupidity. ..... and I'm not so sure about the universe"
    Albert Einstein

    If you see spelling mistakes in my posts, use as many of the goodies below as required to fix it!
    ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
    abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0123456789
    - '

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Centurion
    Age
    36
    Posts
    1,366
    Thanked: 140

    Default

    Wont they have a similar issue to the bat's being killed as well.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/eart...eir-lungs.html

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Mana Pools - May 2015
    By Super_daav in forum Zimbabwe
    Replies: 43
    Last Post: 2015/05/18, 07:48 PM
  2. Drivers Licence Confusion
    By Southerndreams in forum General 4x4 Discussion
    Replies: 106
    Last Post: 2014/10/30, 08:14 AM
  3. Mana Pools a la Windpomp (English)
    By Stan Weakley in forum Zimbabwe
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 2014/10/17, 11:51 AM
  4. Update - mana pools camping and new site numbers
    By lymington in forum Zimbabwe
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 2014/07/04, 01:53 PM
  5. Kerrys Zim-trip report-July 2011
    By kerry in forum Zimbabwe
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 2011/08/18, 09:52 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •