catastrophic diesel failures how many do we know of?

[Dustbin]

Petrol engines were too weak and diesels too heavy so they went with jet engines instead.

Old radial aeroplane engines were petrol engines because they were lightweight and could rev. Nothing to do with reliability. There was nothing else to choose from.

Most of the late WW2 planes were diesels...

[4eJunior]

Put it this way if diesels weren't reliable they wouldn't use them in aircraft would they...oh wait :P

Put it this way if petrols weren't reliable they wouldn't use them in long haul trucks, costing a few times more than the average platkar, would they...oh wait :P

[Koos Best]

You get failures that are diesel specific and those that are petrol specific and those that are common to both engines.

Diesel specific catastrophic failures are either high EGT related or turbo (OK petrols have turbo but not as common). The common story "overtalking on a long uphill towing a tonne of boat and suddenly large clouds of black smoke" is avoidable with an EGT guage and most modern diesels will now go into limp mode when high EGTs are detected. I frequently have my EGT beep when lead footing up a long incline. Dread to think how many diesel owners are blissfully unaware they are melting a hole in their piston. EGTs can climb rapidly and drop quicker... My turbo vanes will frequently go from 650C to half that in a few seconds.

Turbo failures are just plain abuse if you ask me. Turbos are very happy with a good clean supply of oil and air.

Absolutely, that is diesel specific.
Your statement is spot -on , especially " Dread to think how many diesel owners are blissfully unaware they are melting a hole in their piston".

Some guys get fantastic mileage, it's all to do how you drive a diesel , especially fully laden and while towing.

[BeachCat]

Petrol engines were too weak and diesels too heavy so they went with jet engines instead.

Old radial aeroplane engines were petrol engines because they were lightweight and could rev. Nothing to do with reliability. There was nothing else to choose from.

http://www.ulpower.com/engines/faq/gasoline-diesel.html

[BeachCat]

Thanks.
As I said, this is a diesel-bashing Thread & contrary comments (or facts) are not welcomed.
As you say, 2 of the 50 000 members indicates a catastrophe of Biblical proportions.
Especially in light of the fact that no petrol engine has failed ever, even after 15 000 - 16 000km.
Bash away...

As long as we can Bash away at the pros and cons of different engines and not each other then I am happy

[BeachCat]

So according to this thread, every d4d motor is unreliable, every Cruiser V8 TD is unreliable, every Mazda Bt- 50 TD is useless, every, CAT motor is useless (guaranteed for 1000000 hrs BTW) etc etc.....


I would rather put it this way... Turbo motors.... any Turbo motor need some extra precautions... Start-up, Switch off, constant full throttle loads will kill a petrol turbo quicker than a diesel)...

I think the thread is flawed, and maybe someone hears the bell, but does not know where the clock is...

I did a tour of South Africa in my Porsche turbo. No freeways, I beat the motor down 12 hours a day and it never missed a beat, the only thing that failed was me. I compressed my spine from the hard suspension and took 6 months to recover.

I have a garage full of working turbos they never fail unless you allow dirty organic oil to burn off on the shaft.

Clean synthetic oil and you never have to worry about anything else, none of this silly waiting for the turbo to cool malarkey. If the oil is dirty and organic then when it burns off the shaft it leaves carbon deposits.

[MariusFourie]

I beg to differ. A turbo can reach temperatures of over 600 celsius. So hot that you can see it glow sometimes at night.

If you switch off while the turbo is that hot even synthetic oil can not handle those temps and will leave carbon sludge as it cooks in the turbo.

[Dustbin]

I did a tour of South Africa in my Porsche turbo. No freeways, I beat the motor down 12 hours a day and it never missed a beat, the only thing that failed was me. I compressed my spine from the hard suspension and took 6 months to recover.

I have a garage full of working turbos they never fail unless you allow dirty organic oil to burn off on the shaft.

Clean synthetic oil and you never have to worry about anything else, none of this silly waiting for the turbo to cool malarkey. If the oil is dirty and organic then when it burns off the shaft it leaves carbon deposits.

I honestly think you are wrong... and a bit ignorant of diesels, and turbos

[BeachCat]

I beg to differ. A turbo can reach temperatures of over 600 celsius. So hot that you can see it glow sometimes at night.

If you switch off while the turbo is that hot even synthetic oil can not handle those temps and will leave carbon sludge as it cooks in the turbo.

Yes but as someone has already mentioned, it only takes seconds to cool down, when I first started modifying with turbos more than 20 years ago I had failures with dirty organic oil, but none since I kept my oil clean. I still have the original Porsche Turbo that is more than 35 years old, still good.

[dirtshark]

"catastrophic diesel failures how many do we know of?"

I am not sure what is being asked here but there have been plenty reported here on the forum in the last few years.........ie. " sorry sir, the crank has snapped/stopped rotating(bearing seized) and the piston has escaped..................that will be 95k.............."
Some on relatively new vehicles

[MariusFourie]

Yes but as someone has already mentioned, it only takes seconds to cool down, when I first started modifying with turbos more than 20 years ago I had failures with dirty organic oil, but none since I kept my oil clean. I still have the original Porsche Turbo that is more than 35 years old, still good.

The EGT cools down within a few seconds but the turbo body is a big lump that takes a bit longer to cool down. I can see this in my oil temperature as well.

Perhaps your turbo was water cooled which does help and using good oil that is changed regularly helps as well.

There is no oil that will survive a glowing hot turbo if it isn't replenished with fresh supply constantly.

Go for a hard drive and then drop a single drop of oil on the turbo housing. Does it flow of or does it smoke and leave a tarnished residue?

[BeachCat]

I honestly think you are wrong... and a bit ignorant of diesels, and turbos

If turbos needed to be cooled down then the manufacturers would say so in their manuals they wouldn't want their customers to be ignorant of the facts.

If diesel turbos needed to be driven is a special way they would also say so.

If I drove a petrol motor with the same recommendations that have been made here then it would probably last for 250,000 kms.

Reliable motors have no 'buts', the more 'buts' the more unreliable.

[dirtshark]

If turbos needed to be cooled down then the manufacturers would say so in their manuals they wouldn't want their customers to be ignorant of the facts.

If diesel turbos needed to be driven is a special way they would also say so.

If I drove a petrol motor with the same recommendations that have been made here then it would probably last for 250,000 kms.

Reliable motors have no 'buts', the more 'buts' the more unreliable.

They do.

[4eJunior]

Reliable motors have no 'buts', the more 'buts' the more unreliable.

What Dirtshark said.

Your above statement is an indication of your lack of knowledge and/or understanding of the internal combustion engine, whether diesel, petrol or whatever.

Have you seen the start-up procedures for eg rally or racing engines?
Not to mention the capital spent on telemetry and the interpretation thereof.
Those are what you would call 'buts'.

I think you should have quit, when (you thought) you were ahead.

[RANDYTD5]

My experience

Polo Tdi 60k/km no problems
Disco 1Tdi 285k/km engine never opened, no problems.
Disco 2TD5 200k/km engine never opened, no problems
My current Freelander 2 SD4 105K/KM no problems.

And I am known for abusing my vehicles a bit as I enjoy driving all over. No 2so and just regular servicing works fine for me.

But my petrol Mazda 2.6 Magnum 4x4 DC gave me all sorts of problems, overheating etc...

[Mad Manny]

...but there have been plenty reported here on the forum in the last few years.........ie. " sorry sir, the crank has snapped/stopped rotating(bearing seized) and the piston has escaped..................that will be 95k.............."
Some on relatively new vehicles

Was not aware of this.
I must read the other brand's sections more often & not just stick to Toyota & Isuzu (& JMC)...

[BeachCat]

The EGT cools down within a few seconds but the turbo body is a big lump that takes a bit longer to cool down. I can see this in my oil temperature as well.

Perhaps your turbo was water cooled which does help and using good oil that is changed regularly helps as well.

There is no oil that will survive a glowing hot turbo if it isn't replenished with fresh supply constantly.

Go for a hard drive and then drop a single drop of oil on the turbo housing. Does it flow of or does it smoke and leave a tarnished residue?

Yes but when the motor is running and the housing is glowing the shaft is not at that temp, the shaft is still at normal operating temps and when you switch off the oil does not stop flowing immediately. Heat wants to travel in the direction of the largest temperature differential, outwards towards the housing and not inwards to the shaft. So the shaft never gets anywhere near the temp of the casing and a good clean synthetic oil will not burn off and leave deposits...if it did I would have gone through dozens of turbos.

[Clint_Hemi]

The D4D manual clearly stipulates an idling down procedure for the turbo, depending on what speed was done, and for how long.

My rotary also can't be turned off before it's at operating temperature, as the fueling is adjusted higher during warm-up, to make sure the engine warms up quickly. If you start it, and immediately turn it off, you need to run the battery flat a minimum of three times just turning the motor over to eject all the extra fuel from the rotor housing.

That is a big "but". It's inherent in the design of the motor. I know this because I read the manual. After making the mistake of turning it off immediately. And spending a whole Saturday waiting for my battery to charge. Three times.

The manual also clearly states that it's good practice to redline the motor (at 9000rpm) at least once a day to burn of carbon deposits on the rotors, as oil is injected into the combustion chamber ,along with fuel and air, to provide lubrication to bearings that don't have any other contact with oil. It also uses about a pint of oil every second tank.

Another "but". Yet, it makes 200hp. From what's effectively a 1300cc motor the size of a Weber braai, weighing 70kg. And with a small turbo, I'm getting over 300hp on the wheels from it. Hardly a "bad design".

If someone had no clue about these things ave bought an rx8, and drove it like a normal car, and maintained it like a normal car, there would be a thread asking how many catastrophic failures of rotaries there were. Oh wait.... there are plenty. On the American rotary forums. You should see the abuse those guys get from other rotary owners that made the effort to research their cars a bit before "driving it like they stole it".

[albertvl]

Well I specifically bought a petrol Landy because the engine is bulletproof and I didn't want to sit with expensive repairs on a second hand tdi or td5 engine. The bulletproof petrol engine still ended up with a cracked head...

[Clint_Hemi]

Well I specifically bought a petrol Landy because the engine is bulletproof and I didn't want to sit with expensive repairs on a second hand tdi or td5 engine. The bulletproof petrol engine still ended up with a cracked head...

Haha. You said Landy engine and bulletproof in the same sentence. Hahaha.