"Pin" Tow Hitch as rear recovery point? - Page 2





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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flee View Post
    4.8 - Stay far away (actually 4.6 mild steel)
    8.8 - lower end of higj tensile. (Typical HT bolt)
    10.9 - propper high tensile. (Also known as stretch bolts, or torque to yield bolts. Great for keeping a constant torque, cylinder head bolts are 10.9)
    12.1 - really hard high tensile. (Great tensile strength, but terrible shear strength.)
    Allan caps are equivalent to 10.9. (No, you get Allen caps in all grades from 8.8.)
    Stainless bolts are about 8.8 plus. (Disagree, SS bolts are usually around 6, depending on SS grade)

    I recommend 10.9, high tensile but not too hard, has a really good uts for our application. (Will be fine, but the shear strength is not as good as 8.8. Much more brittle.)
    Note; always torque ht bolts, only use once! If you loosen tjem afterwards discard.

    Comments in brackets, as tapatalk doesn't play well with ipad.....

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Snyman View Post
    The "standard" Land Rover towbar is more than strong enough. At the top it is bolted to the main cross-member of the chassis and at the bottom is has arms going to the chassis as well. I have replaced the goose neck towbal that the Landy came with with the pin-type tow hitch, and have done some recoveries with it. On my old Tdi I bolted the pin-type tow hitch directly to the main cross member and have done many recoveries with it.

    Please note that a snatch rope is not a "magic wand". Do some spade work to reduce the stress on all the components involved in the recovery.

    Johan
    Have you taken a look at those "arms" They are bolted both sides (chassis and towbar) with standard 10mm bolts.You then have the added stress of the drop plate on the Landy. Remember any drop plate will double or triple the strain on the two main bolts because of the leverage imposed on them. Snatching can easily exert 10 tons or more on the recovery points(then factor in the drop plate) Please check things out properly before just jumping in the deep end, there have been toooooo many accidents around incorrect usage of equipment and/or towbars and towballs while snatching.

    Just a quick note,my dad had an engineering shop my whole life.I "grew up" in the place and was always told that stainless steel blots were soft.May not rust but in fact weaker than ordinary mild steel bolts.I believe my daddy ..... (unless he is proven wrong ?)
    Last edited by Dave Faddel; 2014/10/20 at 09:36 AM.

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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Faddel View Post
    Have you taken a look at those "arms" They are bolted both sides (chassis and towbar) with standard 10mm bolts.You then have the added stress of the drop plate on the Landy. Remember any drop plate will double or triple the strain on the two main bolts because of the leverage imposed on them. Snatching can easily exert 10 tons or more on the recovery points(then factor in the drop plate) Please check things out properly before just jumping in the deep end, there have been toooooo many accidents around incorrect usage of equipment and/or towbars and towballs while snatching.

    Just a quick note,my dad had an engineering shop my whole life.I "grew up" in the place and was always told that stainless steel blots were soft.May not rust but in fact weaker than ordinary mild steel bolts.I believe my daddy ..... (unless he is proven wrong ?)
    Thanks Dave - I have not checked the bolts on the arms, and I will do so this evening, but is the purpose of the arms not to negate/neutralise the "leverage" effect of the drop plate?
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by EVH View Post
    Thanks Dave - I have not checked the bolts on the arms, and I will do so this evening, but is the purpose of the arms not to negate/neutralise the "leverage" effect of the drop plate?
    Yes, that is the idea. The problem is that the "normal" tow bar is rated at about 3,5 tons, NEVER was it designed to do a snatch, and those small bolts on either side are really suspect. If you use and ordinary rope or strap without any elasticity, allowing a kinetic energy build up then it's ok. It's when it comes to snatching that things take a dramatic turn south. In standard form I recon the Defender must have one of the strongest towbars ever manufactured and it will probably be good for snatching. However I personally would not do it because of the factors I mentioned.

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  5. #25
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    I had a chat to one of the workshop guys at Land Rover Durban yesterday and he seems to believe that the tow bar is up to it. I think I will fit one of those hitches for now but will probably, in the future, fit proper recovery points so that I can use a bridal to split the stress.
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    a Pofadder breaks from about 12t. Some clowns break them.

    1] Can your recovery point withstand a 12t load
    2] Do you think that casting that holds the pin in place can withstand 12t
    3] If your towbar comes loose because its made for 3.5t max, and you have a 12 t Kettie behind it, will it bounce off you.

    Can you now see why I want to sit on my hands?
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Engel View Post
    a Pofadder breaks from about 12t. Some clowns break them.

    1] Can your recovery point withstand a 12t load
    2] Do you think that casting that holds the pin in place can withstand 12t
    3] If your towbar comes loose because its made for 3.5t max, and you have a 12 t Kettie behind it, will it bounce off you.

    Can you now see why I want to sit on my hands?
    Something shearing off on snatching at about 12 ton? I dont want to be close when it happens
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Engel View Post
    a Pofadder breaks from about 12t. Some clowns break them.

    1] Can your recovery point withstand a 12t load
    2] Do you think that casting that holds the pin in place can withstand 12t
    3] If your towbar comes loose because its made for 3.5t max, and you have a 12 t Kettie behind it, will it bounce off you.

    Can you now see why I want to sit on my hands?
    You're so right

    I've been looking for tests that have been done on the 'casting',but no luck,I think the pins not the problem.
    Plus the actual tow hitch is good,and mounted properly(frontrunner one),but the actual pin 'casting' has no markings,probably from the East....

    I'm not taking a chance,I'm fitting two points on my chassis rails,that will give me the benefit of using a bridal as well.
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  9. #29
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    I hear you guys and really appreciate your input - those are very valid points and concerns - where would be the best place to mount recovery points to the rear of a Defender? Where can I go to have it fitted? Your suggestions would be appreciated.
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  10. #30
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    No shortcuts when it comes to recovery points. Do it properly.
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  11. #31
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    I need to look into it. A defender is a problem, I have done it before but it was a huge mission. Will look for pics
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  12. #32
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    I've been reading all the comments about the recovery points and the strength of the pin castings and just looking at one on sale at a popular company I have some serious doubts about applying a force of +- 12t to it. Just my 2CW.
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koedoe_D90Td5 View Post
    I've been reading all the comments about the recovery points and the strength of the pin castings and just looking at one on sale at a popular company I have some serious doubts about applying a force of +- 12t to it. Just my 2CW.
    you are 100% right, its a huge problem
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  14. #34
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    Isn't it actually dangerous to apply a 12 ton force anywhere on your vehicle?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogaards View Post
    Isn't it actually dangerous to apply a 12 ton force anywhere on your vehicle?
    You will only get to a 12 ton force if you recover a heavily laden vehicle, stuck to over its wheels in deep sad or mud, and try to recover it upwards. To get into such a situation in the first place, speaks of stupidity. To try to recover it without any effort to minimise the recovery force is downright madness. If you do get into such an absurd situation (and people do), try to make your vehicle lighter and reduce resistance by using Recover Tool No 1, also known as the spade.
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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by camelman View Post
    You will only get to a 12 ton force if you recover a heavily laden vehicle, stuck to over its wheels in deep sad or mud, and try to recover it upwards. To get into such a situation in the first place, speaks of stupidity. To try to recover it without any effort to minimise the recovery force is downright madness. If you do get into such an absurd situation (and people do), try to make your vehicle lighter and reduce resistance by using Recover Tool No 1, also known as the spade.
    and an air jack .............
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  17. #37
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    Anyone applying 12T to a single point on any commercial vehicle is just insane!

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flee View Post
    Anyone applying 12T to a single point on any commercial vehicle is just insane!
    The thing is,it happens,vehicles get stuck and the easiest/laziest way to get out is with a pull or a snatch.
    I am guilty of the above.
    Certainly not stupid.
    Three vehicles had just driven the route with me following,the river bed was wobbling,it was like a wall when it gave way and sucked me in.
    Got a piktur somwer but I'm two fick to find it

    We should dig or clear the wheels,make sure the chassis is clear,lighten the vehicle(drink all the beer),then do the recovery.

    All in a perfect world

    Sometimes you cant dig,the area is water saturated and fills up as you dig,happened to me,took a lot of digging while the hole got filled up with sandy water,tried a snatch strap-it snapped,ended up with two vehicles winching me in tandem,two vehicles holding them,then a Gwagen holding them.
    Thought I'de need to fetch a LTB,but I got out.
    At that time I had two recovery hooks and a bridal to them both
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  19. #39
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    We recently wanted fit one of these to a new vehicle and couldn't find any anywhere. Apparently they have been discontinued due to not being SABS approved, so beware, not as strong as you may think.
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  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Engel View Post
    a Pofadder breaks from about 12t. Some clowns break them.

    3] If your towbar comes loose because its made for 3.5t max, and you have a 12 t Kettie behind it, will it bounce off you.
    It will maybe just go through you?
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