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  1. #1
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    Default Why upgarde a td5 intercooler...make the standard one run more efficiently

    Hi all

    Just wanting to spark up some discussion and I am not necessarily going to do it... but here I go.

    Why upgrade the intercooler when you have the option of cooling the current one more efficiently? The cooler the air, the more "dense" it is correct? So if you can make the air cooler running through the intercooler you have more combustion and TD5 motors can handle the extra combustion as far as I have read. If you could place a small radiator fan on the intercooler or even a small "water mister" to cool it more effectively, why not? Could be a cool holiday project especially if I placed it on a dyno before and after to measure the performance.

    Thoughts please, these are just my assumptions and I have only begun to look into it. Steves auto clinic offers a TD5 intercooler upgrade that promises more power but the job is near 10k if I can remember.

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    Interestingly, very deep topic for a Friday morning.

    I recently upgraded to a universal aftermarket unit at around 1/4 of stevies costs. It is about the same size as std intercooler but thicker, 65mm if I recall. Sits in the same spot.

    For the power gain (although we didn't dyno, just on feel) there is no way to justify R10k for what you are getting?

    I saw the upgrade more as an insurance policy, with the remap and intercooler there is a difference of note (remap = money well spent). With the history of td5's and blown heads, etc. I wanted to keep the air going into the engine as cool as possible and that = upgrading intercooler.

    I think you would get a similar effect with putting fans on the stock unit You might just be limited for space with the aircon condenser sitting there on a disco tho.

    Speaking of fans, I replaced the viscous with electric fans on wedesday! that's worth the effort. autobox changes gears at lower rpm's, no lag, runs quieter. hopefully it will help with fuel consumption!



    Last edited by stretch; 2013/11/22 at 10:07 AM.
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    Default

    A fan will be pointless - you are already moving once boost builds.

    Water works; dragsters even pack dry ice infront the intercooler.
    However, do you really want to stop every 100km do fill up the water?

    Remember, SAC has done a lot of testing on the dyno to verify thier upgrages. I would presume the R10k includes fitment. Places like SAC also have a rather high hourly rate. Very likely they would also adjust timing and mixture, which you cannot do.

    If you are looking to fiddle during the holiday, go see what is the biggest intercooler (that will fit) you can find at tuning shops. Fit it.
    Then fit an 63mm exhaust. (A large exhaust on a turbo is NOT more noisy, but extracts heat quicker. (What you want to do) It also improves turbo spooling)
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    Please tell me more about this adjusting timing, changing mixture would mean remap surely?

    ps. I think it came std with a 63mm pipe - another note on that! remove the huge center box asap, if you haven't done so already. best R350 you will spend on a td5.
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    Default

    Rather just get a new cooler, by adding a fan you will just create more restrictions to your radiator etc.

    I have a friend that builts custom intercoolers, his work is excellent, fit for purpose and half of the price of SAC. See below the difference a proper intercooler can make. This is on my 2.0l petrol Evoque.



    New cooler vs Stock cooler

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    Quote Originally Posted by RogueFrontier View Post
    If you are looking to fiddle during the holiday, go see what is the biggest intercooler (that will fit) you can find at tuning shops. Fit it.
    Then fit an 63mm exhaust.
    Bigger is not always better, it mainly depends on the quality of the core. You get 2 different core configurations i.e. Tube & fin and Bar & Plate.
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    Default thoughts

    I have removed the box and I am essentially running a straight pipe to the back, the later model TD5's have the EGR blanked off and the cat removed. I am sure the job from SAC is a good one but I would like to give a DIY job a go.

    Replacing it with a bigger inter cooler would be nice but I would like to attempt getting cooler air from the current one first (even if it's just for fun).

    I think a fan could still help the air movement as air will follow the path of least resistance, which essentially is around the inter cooler rather than through it. Yes at high speeds it may hinder the process of cooling it, so this is something to look at. If I could get this heat exchanger to run more effectively that would be the ideal outcome for this “simple” project...haha maybe get some dry ice from the ice cream carts at the beach. J

    I realize a 5L reservoir of water would run out fast if it was pumping constantly, however if you made use of a fogger nozzle or atomizer coming on incrementally perhaps triggered by (not sure if this is the best) exhaust gas temperature... the water could last and the spray rate depending on the pressure could be easily worked out...

    All and all a fun topic... I think.

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bloubul7 View Post
    Rather just get a new cooler, by adding a fan you will just create more restrictions to your radiator etc.

    I have a friend that builts custom intercoolers, his work is excellent, fit for purpose and half of the price of SAC. See below the difference a proper intercooler can make. This is on my 2.0l petrol Evoque.



    New cooler vs Stock cooler
    They look good but the purpose is to utilize the current one for a small amount of money.

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stretch View Post
    Interestingly, very deep topic for a Friday morning.

    I recently upgraded to a universal aftermarket unit at around 1/4 of stevies costs. It is about the same size as std intercooler but thicker, 65mm if I recall. Sits in the same spot.

    For the power gain (although we didn't dyno, just on feel) there is no way to justify R10k for what you are getting?

    I saw the upgrade more as an insurance policy, with the remap and intercooler there is a difference of note (remap = money well spent). With the history of td5's and blown heads, etc. I wanted to keep the air going into the engine as cool as possible and that = upgrading intercooler.

    I think you would get a similar effect with putting fans on the stock unit You might just be limited for space with the aircon condenser sitting there on a disco tho.

    Speaking of fans, I replaced the viscous with electric fans on wedesday! that's worth the effort. autobox changes gears at lower rpm's, no lag, runs quieter. hopefully it will help with fuel consumption!



    Nice, especially for such a low price, where did you get it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RogueFrontier View Post
    A fan will be pointless - you are already moving once boost builds.

    Water works; dragsters even pack dry ice infront the intercooler.
    However, do you really want to stop every 100km do fill up the water?

    Remember, SAC has done a lot of testing on the dyno to verify thier upgrages. I would presume the R10k includes fitment. Places like SAC also have a rather high hourly rate. Very likely they would also adjust timing and mixture, which you cannot do.

    If you are looking to fiddle during the holiday, go see what is the biggest intercooler (that will fit) you can find at tuning shops. Fit it.
    Then fit an 63mm exhaust. (A large exhaust on a turbo is NOT more noisy, but extracts heat quicker. (What you want to do) It also improves turbo spooling)
    not sure if it would be 100% non effective... I am sure the air could be used more effectively... especially if it is pulled through rather than woft around the cooler. Open to debate as always, that's what makes it fun. :/

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    Default

    If you are thinking of fitting fans to improve cooling, do yourself a favour. Drive at 60kmh and stick your hand out the window. Now try get a fan to move that much air. It's not gonna happen.

    A proper intercooler will lower your intake temps by up to 20 degrees as measured on the defenders and D3's where the upgraded coolers are twice and 3x standard frontal area.
    There are a lot of options for the defender and D2. Allisport is the best but not the cheapest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baben View Post
    If you are thinking of fitting fans to improve cooling, do yourself a favour. Drive at 60kmh and stick your hand out the window. Now try get a fan to move that much air. It's not gonna happen.

    A proper intercooler will lower your intake temps by up to 20 degrees as measured on the defenders and D3's where the upgraded coolers are twice and 3x standard frontal area.
    There are a lot of options for the defender and D2. Allisport is the best but not the cheapest

    Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner
    True... however.. and I am just trying to open up debate here... The air flow rate would not be the same as a hand out the window as under the bonnet. I am thinking of using "sprayers" instead though.

    At the end of it, it just a simple heat exchanger and if it can run cooler, it will run better. cooler air= denser air= more power... in simple terms-I think.

    please share more thoughts, again I don't want a bigger inter cooler until I can test the one I have in... while it's in.

    Baben I must still organize the remap we spoke about this week... as soon as the panel beaters are done

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    Come put her on the dyno. We will throw a bucket of water over the intercooler while the big 2kw fan is on. If it makes more than 5kw difference I will pay for the dyno run.

    Remaps we can do all day every day all you gotta do is arrive with your pocket full of buffaloes

    We have proved again and again the positive results of the oversized intercoolers (not just allisport brand)

    When coupled with a proper remap its a huge difference in driving pleasure with SAFE gains.

    The next step is to fit a VNT and custom map that. Big torque from 1300-1500rpm.

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    Is it true that with bigger intercooler you get more turbo lag due to bigger volume of air to be presurerised?
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    Hi Reenen

    if you go for overkill, i.e. much much bigger yes that could become a factor. But it would only make a small difference in terms of turbo lag.

    The gains in terms of cooler intake air will more than compensate for this.

    Before you do anything take the time to discuss this with BABEN or with Elton Smith of Eurospeed.

    Both do bigger intercoolers and remaps. BABEN also has the option of a tailormade VNT turbo for the D5.

    But before you even start with playing around, make sure you got a working EGT probe in your vehicle.
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    Ive got a 2.7 terrano motor on wich i am working. Bit bigger turbo, manual boost controller, electronic egt. 76 mm freeflow exhaust.

    I have a choice between air to air and water to air intercooler. Chosen water to air due to better effect at low speed. It is running on its own radiator and waterpump.

    Would a adisional air to air cooler be an overkill?


    On the vnt turbo, what control the pitch of vanes? Electronic? Or mechanical from boost pressure like wastegate of normal turbo?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reenen View Post
    Is it true that with bigger intercooler you get more turbo lag due to bigger volume of air to be presurerised?
    No it's nonsense.

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    Default

    Water to air cooler
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Air to air
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Or both?
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    I have a VW Citi with big turbo and all the nice drag goodies that I play with over weekends, in those circles you get what is called "Water & Methanol injection". I'm not sure if it will work for a diesel, but methanol has a serious cooling effect and does a lot better than water. Maybe if it works on diesels you could try that route?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudi_C View Post
    I have a VW Citi with big turbo and all the nice drag goodies that I play with over weekends, in those circles you get what is called "Water & Methanol injection". I'm not sure if it will work for a diesel, but methanol has a serious cooling effect and does a lot better than water. Maybe if it works on diesels you could try that route?
    Yes it will work on a diesel. On my bigger turbo Focus ST I managed to get my intake air temps below ambient with a bigger cooler and a Water & methanol injection system. Ran 6 degree below ambient on a 1km drag. Methanol also has the added benefit of cleaning your intake chambers

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