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  1. #1
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    Cool Going outside the box..

    So in a previous thread I was listed with back water mindless bunch who wanted to keep the status quo as is. And I had an excuse for everything.. One of the things I have learned in my short stay on earth is that someone else probably already thought of it first.. So before you run off with a design to run a motor on peanut oil do some reading and spare yourself the effort.. (p.s this is what a diesel engine was designed for before diesel)

    Here is a short idea that is for a couple of reasons not feasible or I would have patented it long ago..

    Now everybody here with standard 7 (grade 9) science knows that if you add electricity to water you break it down into its base elements of hydrogen and oxygen, both gasses found in nature and they are completely harmless.
    Before we get to the math of things the short and long of the design is we need more clean water, whether it is for drinking or farming we are running short. Stick some anodes and some cathodes in water, add electricity from solar panels and you have two lighter than air gasses that will rise into the atmosphere without any added energy. Now you say so, but why do we want that to happen, well this is good for the next two stages of the design.

    At the top of a 1000m mountain we have a hydrogen fuel cell, the oxygen and hydrogen mix is run through the fuel cell and it again generates electricity. Sure we have lost energy from making hydrogen to converting it back to water, but we have gained so much more.. Potential energy and clean water.. Actually so clean it is void of minerals like distilled water..

    Now water at height is good for a few things, hydro electrical power generation and it can easily be dispersed to various lower laying areas..
    So how is that for potential perpetual motion.. yeah, the only motion will be the movement of gasses and some water right at the end, but you will be gaining electricity and clean water, if you want you could have the system circulate perpetually to increase the production and you will gain more than just the energy from the sun..

    Now for some math..

    Energy is measured in Joules.. To equate this to kW you need to add time as a factor.. P(kW)=E(kJ)/t(s) where P is power, E is energy and t is time in seconds. The electrolysis of water requires a minimum of 286 kJ of electrical energy input to dissociate each mole. Water electrolysis does not convert 100% of the electrical energy into the chemical energy of hydrogen and the remaining energy is converted into lost heat energy.
    From the periodic table we see the atomic weight of hydrogen is 1.0079 and the atomic weight of oxygen is 15.9994.

    Water would weigh:
    weight of water = 2(1.0079) g + 15.9994 g
    weight of water = 2.0158 g + 15.9994 g
    weight of water = 18.0152 g.
    One mole of water weighs 18.0152 grams.

    Thus 1 litre of water weighs 1kg and consists of 55.51 moles and would take (286 x 55.51)kJ to break down.. i.e. 15875.5kJ if working at 100%. Let’s assume there is 7hours of actual solar hours a day, that gives 7 x 3600 seconds a day equaling 25200 seconds. Add 100 x 90W panels and you are looking at 14.3 litres of clean water a day.. (Shortfall 1). So here you have thousands worth of input and all that for 14.3l of clean water.

    Now the water rises to 1000m above original water source (up the side of a mountain in a tube) all the way to a hydrogen fuel cell. For the purpose of the demonstration let’s look at a Proton exchange membrane fuel cell which should give you between 50-70% conversion of hydrogen to electricity.. Worst case scenario you will retain 50% of the 9000W (100 x 90W panels) you started off with. This charge into batteries to increase working hours and add another 7.15l of water cleaned. So after all that you have 14.3l + 7.15l = 21.45l of pure water.

    Now you have 21.45kg of water raised to 1000m above your starting point which gives you gravitational potential energy. In short if the object will be lowered straight down you can use Ug = (weight kg)(9.8 m/s/s)(distance m), but for this example we will use 800m so we can leave room for some loses associated with mechanics.

    Thus:
    Ug = (21.45kg)(9.8m/s/s)(800m)
    Ug = 168168J or 168.168kJ
    This will allow the system to raise another 59% of a mole, thus it will raise another 10.59g of water.. Hardly perpetual in nature.. (Shortfall 2).

    This shows that while some of us do think outside the box life is not always that simple..

    Please feel free to make any corrections you like or ask if you would like to know more..
    FJ Cruiser
    The more people I meet the more I like my dog..

  2. #2
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    Default

    Yeah Willie, I like your style
    There is never a right time to do the wrong thing and never a wrong time to do the right thing!

  3. #3
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    Default Going outside the box..

    What 'previous Thread' Willie?

  4. #4
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    Much to complicated for a hooligan like me.....
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    Dis 'n TOYOTA ding - Jy sal nie verstaan nie !!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by War-Medic View Post
    Much to complicated for a hooligan like me.....
    I can`t even find the box, let alone go outside the box
    2004 L/C 4.2 Game Viewer
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gleneagles View Post
    I can`t even find the box, let alone go outside the box
    What box..... Can we buy it somewhere??
    Hahahahahaha
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Francois Theron View Post
    Yeah Willie, I like your style
    Thank you, I try..

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Manny View Post
    What 'previous Thread' Willie?
    The farm that needs tightening..

    Quote Originally Posted by War-Medic View Post
    Much to complicated for a hooligan like me.....
    If it worked I would have agreed, but it is simple school math..

    Quote Originally Posted by Gleneagles View Post
    I can`t even find the box, let alone go outside the box
    The box is at the top of the mountain holding the fuel cell..
    FJ Cruiser
    The more people I meet the more I like my dog..

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