Radical trails are a concern - Page 8





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  1. #141
    Christo Meissenheimer Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisF View Post
    In the Baviaans we encountered severe mud - without Uys's bashplate we would have been one more stuck 4x4 for the farmer to pull out that day. As "overlanders" the protectin we fitted to our vehicle helped us that day.

    this was not a trail, or looking for some "excitement", pure overlanding and either we went through the mud or we had a 200km round trip to bypass it ....



    Spreethoogte in Namibia .... similar story.


    We prefer overlanding to "trails" any day of the week, yet our vehicle is fully equiped to handle to terrain we have encountered on our travels.


    And when overlanding you DO take more care, as it "messes" with your holiday plans when your vehicle comes back on a flatbed ....
    +1.

    Both these Cruiser has more that R300 000 on extras. They have full underbody protection on both axle's and fuel tanks ext. They have never seen a 4x4 trail in there whole life just overlanding. Go to places like Koakoland , damaraland , Richtersveld , where there is rocks, and more rocks then you will see why we have all these protection plates and mods on our 4x4's

    Christo Meissenheimer
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  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by offroadbiker View Post
    But I already do pay an increased premium for these modifications as I have specified all these and do pay a premium on all items specified...??
    You will pay a premium on the 4x4 and the specified items are charged a premium separately as these enhance the insured value of the vehicle. As such, you are not paying a increased premium...your premium is directly in proportion the value for which you are insuring.
    I have never seen a wild animal feeling sorry for itself.

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by offroadbiker View Post
    But I already do pay an increased premium for these modifications as I have specified all these and do pay a premium on all items specified...??
    I also specified a lot of household goods seperate to my normal stuff - but does that mean it is OK for me to leave the front door open or not to activate the alarm when I go out?

    What I am saying is that if it is your intention to do something that falls outside the scope of normal use then you should be accountable for your action. And before someone shoots me - a 4x4 is for off road use - I know - but if you deliberately attempt an obstacle that has an increased risk of damage to the vehicle, are you acting responsibly?
    Bite off more than you can chew - then chew!

  4. #144
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    Raymond, can you tell us which province has the worst claims. Then you just increase their premium accordingly


    ORA
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    Ian

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond du Plessis View Post
    With quite a bit more than 30 000 members on this forum I believed that posting such a question was relevant to all 30 000+ members here as the majority of these members are avid off-road fans with extensive and valuable knowledge of developments and trends within the 4x4 industry and the activities relating thereto. Activities surrounding the 4x4 Industry and participation in these activities by 4x4 owners are rapidly growing and one simply has to look at the many off-road trails which are being developed on an on-going basis. Also, the number of entrants at this past week-end’s event at Gerotek by the AAWDC speaks volumes as to growing popularity of such events. The other point of influence which I believe is relevant here is the interaction between like-minded people via the social media. One cannot dispute the massive impact which this instant response communication form has had on all our lives. Couple this with the human nature to compete and compare with others and you have an instant and powerful force to create change in any sphere. One can research the content of this forum and find a wealth of information relating to off-road tracks and trails throughout the country varying in degrees of difficulty. No need for FB. One can safely assume then that not all participants at such events or visitors to the various off-road trails will have the necessary skills to properly negotiate these various trails. This is where I believe the crux of my question lay in that:<o</o
    1. Are trails becoming more radical?<o</o
    Or<o</o
    2. Are drivers becoming more gung-ho?<o</o
    <o</o
    My observation and comments are dictated by my limited knowledge of 4x4 track design, but I will say that after 20 odd years of off-roading, l can see trouble when it presents itself. Over the past number of months, I have visited a number of off-road trails as well as two different purpose-built tracks (no names, no pack drill) which were used for fund raising events. At both of the “fund raising” purpose built tracks I was struck by the deliberate construction of obstacles which were designed to virtually prevent you from negotiating it with any degree of skill. Brute force is what made it happen. At some of the permanent off-road trails, the owners were all too eager to entertain with stories of how many 4x4 have been broken on their trail and trophy photo’s thereof are stuck up on the wall. Having said that, I did have the privilege of meeting some really professional operators.<o</o
    <o</o
    What came to the fore quite clearly, is the use of alcohol at these venues. Hey!... don’t get me wrong. It’s the use of alcohol while driving which is a problem and there is very little “skaam” about it being used at any of these tracks and even at some organised events.<o</o
    <o</o
    The fact remains, TUFFSTUFF will always be at the cutting edge of 4x4 insurance product development and asking questions which provokes aggressive debate only serves to provide their clients with a better product.<o</o

    Some just have an attitude that my insurance pays out all the time.
    No more worries, i dont have to take precautions as i am covered.
    Not the right attitude in my books.


    ORA
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    Ian

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by OFFROAD ADDICT View Post
    Raymond, can you tell us which province has the worst claims. Then you just increase their premium accordingly
    To identify which province can easily be done but we are NOT looking at premium increases as such. Very unfair to adopt this shotgun approach
    I have never seen a wild animal feeling sorry for itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Disco-Deon View Post
    he day I went through there were 2 Wrangler type Jeeps standing around too scared to go through. The D3 went through without any problems or scratches.
    Question answered
    Always take the slow road.

  8. #148
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    I'd like to add a cent or 2 to the original questions (my very humble opinion):

    1. Are trails becoming more radical?
    I don't think it's as much the trails becoming more radical, as it is 4x4 owners seeking more of a challenge. I've driven Hennops Trail (not Hennops Pride) as my first 4x4 experience. I then joined a few forum members at De Wildt, where I didn't do some of the obstacles out of sheer pissieness, despite being told my car should handle it without any issues. I went back to De Wildt at a later date, and, after gathering some courage, did the obstacles that I didn't do at the last outing. I was suitably impressed with the capabilities of the vehicle and my driving "skills", that I'm now seeking a trail that offers more of a challenge than that which was on offer at De Wildt.

    So no, trails are not becoming more radical. Drivers are simply seeking out more radical trails to test their vehicles and skills, until something gives, and a call is made to the insurer.

    2. Are drivers becoming more gung-ho?
    I think the answer to this also lies within my response to question 1. Perhaps not "gung-ho" as such, but rather more daring, pushing boundaries, as confidence in the vehicle and driver capabilities increase, again, until something gives.

    Regards
    Alvin

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  9. #149
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    @Alvin.....I see you've got a Disco 2, that's a proper purpose designed 4x4. It'll go further than you think without sustaining damage that other so-called 4x4's will be susceptible too.

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJ Junkie View Post
    @Alvin.....I see you've got a Disco 2, that's a proper purpose designed 4x4. It'll go further than you think without sustaining damage that other so-called 4x4's will be susceptible too.
    I agree Neil, but at which point does my over-confidence from being able to negotiate difficult obsticles result in damage to the vehicle? I just read a thread from someone who damaged a bumper on a stock D2, going through a mud pool that I went through just last week without any problems.

    The point is not so much the vehicle and it's capabilities in stock standard guise, as it is the need to push the vehicle to beyond it's capabilities, regardless of vehicle type. Also, at which point do you realize that you've pushed the vehicle beyond it's capabilities? Yep, at the point where something breaks.

    Raymond also hit the nail on the head. Social media has instilled more confidence in us than we care to admit. "Well if his xyz vehicle, which is the same as mine, can do that...". Never mind that "he" has level 5 off-roading certification...

    Regards
    Alvin

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  11. #151
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    Alvin, its obviously important to know roughly how your vehicle works underneath. I'm not a mechanic so there are also aspects that I don't need to know & will bore me to tears if I had to attempt to find out.

    But a lot of drivers simply don't understand the basic fundamental things that are going on with their vehicle when they do certain things. That's when things break, but having the right sort of vehicle will reduce the risk in the absence of knowledge.

    Its probably a good idea to hook up with some guys with the same vehicle as yours & who know what they are talking about. Often, just reading the owners manual helps .

  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJ Junkie View Post
    Often, just reading the owners manual helps .
    Manual? What manual?
    Alvin

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    What manual? This manual...
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  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by JvZweel View Post
    What manual? This manual...
    De Wildt?
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    Its called Tuff Stuff not soft stuff isnt it?

    4x4 trails are not the problem per say but accidents do happen.

    I am at higher risk of damage driving through a pot hole than on a trail as I dont tavel 120km/h through an obstacle and navigate obstacles with the utmost care.

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    It's a question without a real answer unfortunately, because there aren't any constant to compare against. People buy more 4x4s and are eager to get out of the concrete jungle more and more. Unfortunately this also increase the scenarios of "hou was my dop dan wys ek jou".

    In the end it's up to the insurers to come up with feasible incentives to avoid people from doing stupid things (and either way finance that from a R10 increase in everyone's premium). Outcrappers started with the no claim bonus thing which lots see as a good incentive, but what about perhaps investigating things like adding free / reduced price 4x4 extras after say a 12 month no claim period. Or a weekend for the family voucher at a game lodge after a 12 month no claim period. Some or other carrot hanging at certain stages. The carrot must be something 4x4s / outdoor guys want. Even a free 4x4 course when you start insuring your 4x4.

    I'll think twice before doing a ego show-off thing for my buddies if I know SWAMBO would shoot me for losing out on a weekend at a nice lodge
    Disclaimer - All my posts on this forum is without prejudice, is based on my fair assumptions or perceptions, is in no way intended to cause harm to anyone and is acted upon at your own discretion.

  17. #157
    andre` Guest

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    I think I would be Raymond`s ideal client. I prepare my vehicles for the places where I do go or intent to go. I normally do not pick up damage but if I do, I repair it myself.

    As I have an excellent relationship with my insurer, and only claim when it was not my own stupidity, my insurance premiums is so low that I will have to kill you if I tell you.

  18. #158
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    There is insufficient data available here to make a decision.

    Only someone who has seen all the claims can attempt to answer this question.

    So which do you think it is, Raymond?

    I suspect that it is more complicated than the dichotomy that you have presented.

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    Quote Originally Posted by superduper View Post
    There is insufficient data available here to make a decision.

    Only someone who has seen all the claims can attempt to answer this question.

    So which do you think it is, Raymond?

    I suspect that it is more complicated than the dichotomy that you have presented.
    It is a concern which I raised because of a trend which I believe may be developing.

    The business of Insurance is based on statistaical information which is gathered on an ongoing basis and over many years and one must live close to this information or ignore it at your own peril and it will silently creep up and bite you with an unrelenting determination. Determining risk exposures and risk trending is unfortunately not something that can easily be thought up over a cup of coffee. There is some serious number crunching behind the scenes coupled with a good understanding (I hope) of the business which is being looked at.

    Identifying trends ahead of time is possibly the single most important aspect in keeping premium levels constant and in so doing, the clients benefit by way of not experiencing radical changes in premiums.

    At the end of the day, this is my job.
    Last edited by Raymond du Plessis; 2013/08/23 at 08:42 AM.
    I have never seen a wild animal feeling sorry for itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by George View Post

    I'll think twice before doing a ego show-off thing for my buddies if I know SWAMBO would shoot me for losing out on a weekend at a nice lodge

    best incentive I have heard for a while
    Lusted for a Landy but the Pajero was sexier and bigger in the right departments, just like my Missus.

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