Radical trails are a concern - Page 4





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  1. #61
    Christo Meissenheimer Guest

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    This is why we have insurance
    http://4x4community.co.za/forum/show...98#post1808498

    We know crossXcountry will came fetch the car , but we don't drive to kill the thing and then phone crossXcountry.

    We had gearbox problems in Botswana a few years back when the selector was giving problems. We phoned crossxcountry , but likely we got it fixed in Botswana. If we didn't get it fixed , they would have fetch us and the Fortuner.

    Also with the story about the Cruiser , we didn't leave it at Mana pools , we towed it to Harare to make it easier for them.

    Christo Meissenheimer

  2. #62
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    Interesting conundrum .....


    Raymond you worked hard to created the reputation that TuffStuff DO cover their clients when things go wrong.


    Now you have amongst your clients a group that believes they have "extreme trail cover" ..... regardless of anything else .....


    Sadly I believe your claims are set to still increase.


    And IF you now try to reword your policy to cover the "overlander" and the "mild trail rider" ....



    sadly your policy makes it way too easy for people to push further and further, knowing that when things go wrong TuffStuff will pick up the bill for their fun.


    Some slide scale measuring premiums vs training vs trail grading may go some way to addressing this. But I dont see how that can be implemented successfully.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uys View Post
    5. Users have more piece of mind because of their insurance.
    Is this not a matter of the wrong (or right) way of thinking.
    Because you are insured the interpretation is that everything must be claimed because you pay your insurance to carry the risk.
    On my way to Gariep a 22 Wheeler pushed me of the road. Small visible damage to my caravan.
    At Gariep Dianne thought you can reverse over a street lamp with the Jeep.
    I claimed the Jeep' damage but as the visible damage to the caravan was very small I did not claim.
    Three months later we discovered that the caravan is cracking above the door.
    The small impact of the 22 wheeler loosened the struts holding the ‘Lift roof’ (correction)
    Water came in and the whole right hand side are full of wood rot. Damage six times more than what was claimed on the Jeep.
    It is too late to claim so I will have to pay the bill.
    Then at the Community Tuffstuff Fundi I scratched the Jeep out of pure stupidity. I did not claim as I know I was at fault and paid for the repairs myself.
    So my questions….. when do you claim? What will be the right thing to do. How can we (me) and my insurer get to a point where we both benefit?

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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCR View Post
    You guys joke, but it's a good point. If you take a slightly modified Defender on the average trail your risk of damage (excluding rollovers) is very low. Attempting the same in a standard double cab may very well lead to damage of bumpers and sills and so on. This is said assuming average driver skill (no, you are probably not above average). It stands to reason then that the average driver should not attempt the trail in a double cab at all, being under equipped to do so.

    I think we use the wrong machines for the wrong purpose. We compromise (as we must, money is scarce) by buying a double cab as a compromise to drive daily, but then don't follow through on that compromise by staying off the average to difficult trails.

    DCR I have a video clip of a member here guiding a friend in a mildly modded bakkie across some rocky surface - BANK-CLUNK-BANG-CLUNK ... Then a 70+ year young gent comes along in his standard bakkie, eyes the obstacle and idels through it without a single knock .....


    o-well just maybe its not the brand or type of vehicle ... just maybe level of experience .... (not sure what that means for the people like ME with limited experience...)

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobus2.5DID View Post
    Oh wow! I think you may find some opposition to that standpoint...
    And I'm prepared to entertain reasonable counter arguments.
    Dewald

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisF View Post
    DCR I have a video clip of a member here guiding a friend in a mildly modded bakkie across some rocky surface - BANK-CLUNK-BANG-CLUNK ... Then a 70+ year young gent comes along in his standard bakkie, eyes the obstacle and idels through it without a single knock .....


    o-well just maybe its not the brand or type of vehicle ... just maybe level of experience .... (not sure what that means for the people like ME with limited experience...)
    Absolutely, and why I said "driver of average skill". Problem is that many would like to believe they are above average when they're not. Given that I have claimed from Tuffstuff for a 4x4 accident I know for a fact that I'm probably not brilliant at it.
    Dewald

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond du Plessis View Post
    An ever increasing number of vehicles are being damaged on trails and the question to be asked is;
    1. are the trails becoming more radical......or
    2. are drivers becoming more gung-ho ?
    It could also be that more people are starting to use their 4x4s for what they have been designed for. More vehicles on trails will translate to more claims.
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  8. #68
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    I dont see why TUFFSTUFF cant implement certain deductions into the premium. I have for example a tracker in my car simply because the monthly cost outweighs the discount. So why not include options like
    1. Do you have an aftermarket replacement bumper?
    2. Do you have aftermarket rocksliders?
    3. Do you have aftermarket undercarriage protection?
    4. Are you certified under driving standard XYZ?

    And depending on the answers give discounts. But then again, pure overlanders probably don't need that stuff...
    2011 Fortuner 3.0 D4D 4x4 A/T white (2012 model)
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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris83 View Post
    I dont see why TUFFSTUFF cant implement certain deductions into the premium. I have for example a tracker in my car simply because the monthly cost outweighs the discount. So why not include options like
    1. Do you have an aftermarket replacement bumper?
    2. Do you have aftermarket rocksliders?
    3. Do you have aftermarket undercarriage protection?
    4. Are you certified under driving standard XYZ?

    And depending on the answers give discounts. But then again, pure overlanders probably don't need that stuff...
    Aah but wont the people with those goodies spend more time in dangerous environments? I think it comes out in the wash.
    2001 Mitsubishi Colt 2.4i Trailbuster
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    Quote Originally Posted by OwenD View Post
    Aah but wont the people with those goodies spend more time in dangerous environments? I think it comes out in the wash.
    I think that if you have taken precautions to prevent cosmetic damage to your vehicle you'll have less claims than someone who has taken such precautions.

    to give an example...

    If you take a standard Wrangler Sahara to Atlantis dunes, you will be able to drive around all over the place.

    IF you then decide to follow someone like Neil or Gunhog over some of the medium / low level obstacles - you will make it, but you WILL lose your stock bumper and side steps.

    the same goes for most vehicles. the drive train will get you up a medium slip face, but the tupperware will stay at the bottom.

    then there are the really rough bits - where you can have a good go at it, but you won't get over the top without some mods - but just trying will lose you even more bits.





    to me, coming back from AD with your bumper and steps in the boot is a given, not an accident. (if you've tried the actual obstacles)

    put on a set of sliders and steel bumpers etc - you will never take any damage unless you oaf completely and roll it, which is pretty rare.

    I will lay long odds that insurances have spent way more money upgrading vehicles from 'expected' cosmetic damage than they have from genuine accidents resulting in total writeoffs....

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris83 View Post
    I dont see why TUFFSTUFF cant implement certain deductions into the premium. I have for example a tracker in my car simply because the monthly cost outweighs the discount. So why not include options like
    1. Do you have an aftermarket replacement bumper?
    2. Do you have aftermarket rocksliders?
    3. Do you have aftermarket undercarriage protection?
    4. Are you certified under driving standard XYZ?

    And depending on the answers give discounts. But then again, pure overlanders probably don't need that stuff...
    Agree - I dont want to mention the amount spent on the little TJ for modifying it (incase swambo sees this) - but alot is on protection, and I have insured all these extra's and modification which I pay for - if they are willing to bill me for these extra's - I expect them to payout when I use the 4x4 for its intended purpose.

    If you take a fortuner on a trail then something breaks one could argue it should have rather stayed at a shopping mall.
    Water covers 3/4 of the earth, Jeep covers the rest.


  12. #72
    Christo Meissenheimer Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris83 View Post
    1. Do you have an aftermarket replacement bumper?
    2. Do you have aftermarket rocksliders?
    3. Do you have aftermarket undercarriage protection?
    4. Are you certified under driving standard XYZ?

    And depending on the answers give discounts. But then again, pure overlanders probably don't need that stuff...
    Well crossxcountry gave us discount because , my Dad has done certified 4x4 training. We also have more than one tracker in our Fortuner , came down when we had one , came a lot down when installed a few other at the same company and the discount crossXcountry gave us was more than we pay tracker.

    We have all the protection we can basicly put on our Fortuner and we just do overlanding. It does not mean if you do overlanding you don't need protection.

    Our insurance on our Fortuner with all our extras insured is just above R500-00 a month at crossXcountry.

    Christo Meissenheimer

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christo Meissenheimer View Post
    This is why we have insurance
    http://4x4community.co.za/forum/show...98#post1808498

    We know crossXcountry will came fetch the car , but we don't drive to kill the thing and then phone crossXcountry.
    There are some places where XCountry will not be able to recover a vehicle.

  14. #74
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    I used my previous D3 and D2 the same way.
    With the D3 I got some brush rash - no claims.
    Had the D2 6 days and ripped the front bumper apart - never claimed. A month later ripped the rear bumper apart - never claimed.

    I feel the claims are more linked to attitude than we care to admit. In both my D2 instances TS would have paid out and I would have had Burnco bumpers fitted. I felt it was not the right thing to do and paid for my own mistakes - had I ruined the car while making a mistake then I would have claimed.
    Many people will cover the minor issues - like bumpers we were planning on buying anyway - but still want cover when we roll our vehicles.
    Stay Safe
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  15. #75
    Christo Meissenheimer Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by XJ Junkie View Post
    There are some places where XCountry will not be able to recover a vehicle.
    Yes , but crossXcountry works like this. If they can't recover the 4x4 they pay you out for what your 4x4 is insured for and we know they do it because it happen to one of our friends that got stranded in Koakoland where they could not tow the 4x4 out. They will send out a mechanic and parts first to fix it , if they don't get it fixed they pay you out. Crossxcountry has flown in parts on many dune trips in Namibia weir 4x4 have broken down.

    Christo Meissenheimer
    Last edited by Christo Meissenheimer; 2013/08/20 at 03:59 PM.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christo Meissenheimer View Post
    Yes , but crossXcountry works like this. If they can't recover the 4x4 they pay you out for what your 4x4 is insured for and we know they do it because it happen to one of our friends that got stranded in Koakoland where they could not tow the 4x4 out.
    I know of a case where they didn't

  17. #77
    Christo Meissenheimer Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by XJ Junkie View Post
    I know of a case where they didn't
    Can be, we have only had good service from them , and most off our friends that does overlanding are with them. The Cruisers gearbox that broke have been recovered twice and crossxcountry did not ask questions ones , they just did the recovery

    But I do believe you XJ Junkie.

    Christo Meissenheimer

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christo Meissenheimer View Post
    Can be, we have only had good service from them , and most off our friends that does overlanding are with them. The Cruisers gearbox that broke have been recovered twice and crossxcountry did not ask questions ones , they just did the recovery

    But I do believe you XJ Junkie.

    Christo Meissenheimer
    The thread is on the forum somewhere, they couldn't get a broken Ford Ranger out of the dunes. But they did sent a flatbed to the car park

  19. #79
    Christo Meissenheimer Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by XJ Junkie View Post
    The thread is on the forum somewhere, they couldn't get a broken Ford Ranger out of the dunes. But they did sent a flatbed to the car park
    That is why I don't like these long dune trips , if something goes wrong and the can't fix it in the dunes , your car is stuck there. Okay , the insurance pays you out , but still , you need to begin from scratch again and you will always be on the loosing side no matter how good your insurance is.

    Christo Meissenheimer

  20. #80
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    Nah, we got it out, but XCountry couldn't. It was barely 3km's in.

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