Radical trails are a concern - Page 3





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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uys View Post
    Ek dink dis n briljante plan...
    he he
    I have never seen a wild animal feeling sorry for itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Disco-Deon View Post
    I recognise that obstacle (where Jeeps were scared to tread) from the day I went through with the D3 - a long, long time ago.
    Funny oke you wif da Jeep comment I very very very almost made it, should've gone slightly more to the right. My friend, KoiMundi on the forum, did exactly the same obstacle in an identical vehicle. He exited slightly more to the right after me, and came out scathe-free
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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by JvZweel View Post
    Funny oke you wif da Jeep comment
    he day I went through there were 2 Wrangler type Jeeps standing around too scared to go through. The D3 went through without any problems or scratches.
    Stay Safe
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThysleRoux View Post
    Personally, I feel vehicles are written off to easily these days, whether it is an on- or off road claim.
    I agree, with my mom's accident no so long ago panelbeater A quoted R54k, assersor said write of when he heard the figure, I pushed a bit and told him the last time he almost halved the quote when he was done with them. He asked another panelbeater to look at the car, R29k further and mom's driving her car again. Panelbeater B says they write the cars of because they can get more for the parts if sold (not sure who the they are and if there's any truth in it)

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    Raymond,

    it strikes me that there are two alternative under-writing ways out of this problem for you.

    You could either study the claims and work out if certain venues are producing a disproportionate number of claims, then on renewal make it clear that these locations are excluded from cover, or, you could alter the excess on your policies such that any claims arising from leisure activities on organised trails attracted a much higher excess. You could even get sophisticated about the latter idea, and have a graded excess which related to the grades of trails.

    Mike
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  6. #46
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    The problem is that the guys are led to believe their vehicles can go anywhere. For example Andrew St Pierre White takes a Disco 4 up Baboons and they only show the little dent on the door and not the other damage. If all the damage was known, the average guy would think twice before attempting it.

    I see the guys that want to do Carnage Canyon as well. They see that we have done it but ignore the fact that we have spend R100k plus to prepare for that.

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    Something else that I think has a huge impact on the damages from trails etc, is whether the 4x4 in question is the insured's daily drive or toy.

    People are far less likely to take chances, or submit to peer pressure, with their daily drive vehicles than they are with their toys.

    Toys are bought to be played with. Daily drives however we're dependant on and we're less likely to take a risk which may see it standing in a panelbeater for 6 weeks. The excitement is simply not worth the possible discomfort

  8. #48
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    Build an incentive into the insurance package, and people will start making more realistic assessments of whether it is worth the risk of tackling a trail or obstacle. If the thinking isn't just "can I get up there?" but is "can I get up there, and is it worth the risk knowing that it will cost me X rands if I don't" then people may be a little more cautious.

    Mike
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeAG View Post
    Raymond,

    it strikes me that there are two alternative under-writing ways out of this problem for you.

    You could either study the claims and work out if certain venues are producing a disproportionate number of claims, then on renewal make it clear that these locations are excluded from cover, or, you could alter the excess on your policies such that any claims arising from leisure activities on organised trails attracted a much higher excess. You could even get sophisticated about the latter idea, and have a graded excess which related to the grades of trails.

    Mike
    Mike,
    Believe me, there are many, many options and one can get very inventive about this. However, it is not about anything else other than exactly what the original question poses. i.e. are trails becoming too radical.... or ..... are drivers becoming more gung-ho?

    In my opinion (and I have discussed this elsewhere on this forum), social media definately plays a part in the encouragement of driver behaviour, one way or another. One only has to look at the many threads on this very forum relating to this matter. We are all human and we all have a competative streak in us.
    I have never seen a wild animal feeling sorry for itself.

  10. #50
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    I have been on most trails in S.A and Lesotho and have gotten my fair share of scrapes and scratches, but I always treat the car with kid gloves and try and avoid destroying her. I have seen many people who do quite the opposite. find a mountain aim the vehicle and go. then when they mess it up they claim. There are many reasons for this behaviour but I think its mostly a don’t give a dam attitude. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
    Last edited by Wayne CH; 2013/08/20 at 01:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by galius View Post
    Ek sou sÍ die saak het twee kante:

    Aan die eenkant het jy versekering om jou skade te dek maar aan die ander kant het ek ook die eties en morele plig om skade vir my as eienaar en vir die versekeraar te beperk.

    Ek moet dus nie op plekke invaar wanneer ek goed weet ek loop die gevaar om helse probleme te kry nie.

    En verder as dit in die eensaamheid gebeur moet jy dalk 3 dae wag op hulp en dit kan nogal moeilik wees as die waterkan leeg is.
    Ek moet 100% saamstem net jammer daar is party mense wat van die standpunt uitgaan dat hulle betaal om stupid te wees en dus moet die versekering hoes
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  12. #52
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    My take: if you go on a trail, you expect a certain amount of damage.

    Your sills, stock bumpers and tupperware are not likely to survive unscathed on anything worse than a rough dirt road.

    Quite honestly, if you watch your buddy go over an obstacle in a lifted (whatever) and barely clear his aftermarket bumper and take a long graunch onto his sliders, then decide to follow in your stock similar vehicle - it's not an accident when there is 30k of original Tupperware on the floor and 20k of damage to the sill.

    Maybe the answer lies in the proposed grading of vehicles and obstacles..

    Expecting an insurer to pay for cosmetic damage when taking a grade3 car into a grade 5 obstacle is a bit off...

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Maybe the answer lies in the proposed grading of vehicles and obstacles..

    And I guess you want to grade your vehicle higher than mine?



    Everything is a hammer.
    Unless it is a screw driver.

    Then it it a chisel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    My take: if you go on a trail, you expect a certain amount of damage.

    Your sills, stock bumpers and tupperware are not likely to survive unscathed on anything worse than a rough dirt road.

    Quite honestly, if you watch your buddy go over an obstacle in a lifted (whatever) and barely clear his aftermarket bumper and take a long graunch onto his sliders, then decide to follow in your stock similar vehicle - it's not an accident when there is 30k of original Tupperware on the floor and 20k of damage to the sill.

    Maybe the answer lies in the proposed grading of vehicles and obstacles..

    Expecting an insurer to pay for cosmetic damage when taking a grade3 car into a grade 5 obstacle is a bit off...
    Talk about opening a can of worms, the bakkie brigade will no longer be able to go on any trails

    But I agree, if I did not have ARB, rock sliders, skid plate etc I would have had lots of claims!

    Raymond give us a reason for mods on our vehicles
    Will help with convincing swambo too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uys View Post
    And I guess you want to grade your vehicle higher than mine?



    Soft roader!

    We should all buy Jeep Rubicons and kit them
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  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uys View Post
    And I guess you want to grade your vehicle higher than mine?



    Why have you got gaitshi's avatar?

    You are just confusing me now!!!!

    Anything with stofpad accesories should be classified under "main battle tank"

    Along with standard rubicons


  17. #57
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    Default Radical trails are a concern

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond du Plessis View Post
    An ever increasing number of vehicles are being damaged on trails and the question to be asked is;
    1. are the trails becoming more radical......or
    2. are drivers becoming more gung-ho ?
    Raymond, I don't want to get into a 'Pro-Rata' discussion as the Forum abhors the concept of 'Pro-Rata' as it proves Hiluxes & Fortuners are NOT High Risk.
    However, is the increase in damaged vehicles comensurate with your increasing client base?

    If so, there is no issue...


    PS: Did not read entire Thread so apologies if this point has been raised already...

  18. #58
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    You guys joke, but it's a good point. If you take a slightly modified Defender on the average trail your risk of damage (excluding rollovers) is very low. Attempting the same in a standard double cab may very well lead to damage of bumpers and sills and so on. This is said assuming average driver skill (no, you are probably not above average). It stands to reason then that the average driver should not attempt the trail in a double cab at all, being under equipped to do so.

    I think we use the wrong machines for the wrong purpose. We compromise (as we must, money is scarce) by buying a double cab as a compromise to drive daily, but then don't follow through on that compromise by staying off the average to difficult trails.
    Dewald

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    I also did not read the entire thread but my views are that insurers often get ripped off by clients who claim for deliberate damage vs accidental damage.

    Having insurance that covers 4x4 trails etc does give some piece of mind, the thing is that we should not misuse such insurance to cover-up our own deliberate stupidity.

    To answer the original Q: Drivers might be becoming more gung-ho, even if the trails become more radical, it will be as a result of "supply and demand", thus drivers demanding more radical trails, and thus the old rule of our economy kicks in.
    Last edited by carlp; 2013/08/20 at 02:30 PM.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCR View Post
    You guys joke, but it's a good point. If you take a slightly modified Defender on the average trail your risk of damage (excluding rollovers) is very low. Attempting the same in a standard double cab may very well lead to damage of bumpers and sills and so on. This is said assuming average driver skill (no, you are probably not above average). It stands to reason then that the average driver should not attempt the trail in a double cab at all, being under equipped to do so.

    I think we use the wrong machines for the wrong purpose. We compromise (as we must, money is scarce) by buying a double cab as a compromise to drive daily, but then don't follow through on that compromise by staying off the average to difficult trails.
    Oh wow! I think you may find some opposition to that standpoint...
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