Td5 - Serious Diesel Knock





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  1. #1
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    Angry Td5 - Serious Diesel Knock

    So

    I have a serious diesel knock eminating from the front cylinder of my Td5 90

    I have had it for a couple of months (the knock) but it seems louder now..gave her a listen with a long screwdriver - no mistake..

    It is definitely a loud abnormal detonation knock on the front cylinder only..Not so noticable when cold - very noisy when hot..

    So I would gather the best course of action for now would be to swap the injectors to hear if the sound travels with it? - and obviously to stop driving it..

    If it is not the injector - what do you guys recon I am in for?
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    Bumpity bump?
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    Maybe have a Indy put in on diagnostic's.
    Should be able to tell you immediately if it's injectors?
    Chris

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crips View Post
    Maybe have a Indy put in on diagnostic's.
    Should be able to tell you immediately if it's injectors?
    That is the strange thing!

    The cylinder balances are all within spec at idle, I had
    it measured around a month ago..

    Within -5 / +5 range
    Last edited by Hardebak; 2013/07/10 at 08:23 PM.
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    Are there any opinions from our Td5 / diesel fundi's out there?

    What will the cause of diesel knock be if it is NOT caused by the injector? / is
    it more likely to be the injector on a Td5?

    Landy is just shy of 200k km's and is remapped..

    I think I have been driving with the knock for around 10 000 km's (not knowing that the knock was a knock)

    The head was of at 190k km's because I thought the knock might have been lifter / follower noise. Replacement of these made no difference whatsoever

    The engine was still in great shape then, compression was fine on the 4 cylinders that could be tested - including the knocking one..

    Thanks in advance!
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    Have you tried using 2SO?
    camelman
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  8. #7
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    Have you checked for oil in the ecu connectors?
    It's a long shot, but maybe the signals are all messed up and injection timing and quantity is wrong as a result

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    +1

    You've done diags, compression and the head, so I would also first start checking signals. And first I would always go back to an old MSB Ecu (std as they get) to eliminate any funny mapping issues / ECU issues.

    I've recently come across quite a few "new" injector harness failures as well. Bad quality.

    Maybe some of the better engine fundis can help us on possible - timing chain or tensioner failure in this case?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoMad View Post
    +1

    You've done diags, compression and the head, so I would also first start checking signals. And first I would always go back to an old MSB Ecu (std as they get) to eliminate any funny mapping issues / ECU issues.

    I've recently come across quite a few "new" injector harness failures as well. Bad quality.

    Maybe some of the better engine fundis can help us on possible - timing chain or tensioner failure in this case?
    Discomad

    timing chain stretch or impending tensioner failure would impact on all cylinders regarding the knock.

    My guess is overfuelling because of a bad o-ring or not properly seated copper washer between head and injector.

    Also the wiring harness issue would again manifest itself over more then one cylinder.

    Just my 2c worth.

    kind regards


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    Maybe a smallend bearing?

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    Thanks for the input all!

    Injector harnass was replaced recently - no change ( I did have the oil in harnass problem)

    I have also ruled out bearing noise because when you take your foot off the accelerator on a downhill the engine runs very quietly - definitely injector / combustion related.

    I did not think it could be due to injector o-ring / copper washers! That I think might be hitting the nail on the head because I had them replaced and I am almost certain the knock started soon thereafter.

    I will take the injectors out this weekend and have a gander.

    Will it hurt anything to swap two injectors just to test and hear if the sound travels?

    Thanks all!!
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    Do not forget that you will have to re-programme your computer as to the new location of the moved injectors.

    You can swop them out with no ill effect but make sure you write all the injectors numbers down so you know which pot they came from.

    You do not mention which motor it is, ie 10P, 18P etc. The black injectors are very prone to dying for no good reason other than they can when you take them out.

    Bad "O" rings, you normally start getting oil dilution with diesel getting into the sump. Copper washers can cause blow by next to the injector which can also cause burning and damaging the seat of the injector but not over fueling.

    Your system sounds like an over fuel problem. The T5 injectors are 2 stage injectors and when they get hot you could be getting leakage and therefore excessive fueling. Is there any excessive smoke when you are under power, this could also indicate a bad fueling situation.

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  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landy Nut View Post
    Do not forget that you will have to re-programme your computer as to the new location of the moved injectors.

    You can swop them out with no ill effect but make sure you write all the injectors numbers down so you know which pot they came from.

    You do not mention which motor it is, ie 10P, 18P etc. The black injectors are very prone to dying for no good reason other than they can when you take them out.

    Bad "O" rings, you normally start getting oil dilution with diesel getting into the sump. Copper washers can cause blow by next to the injector which can also cause burning and damaging the seat of the injector but not over fueling.

    Your system sounds like an over fuel problem. The T5 injectors are 2 stage injectors and when they get hot you could be getting leakage and therefore excessive fueling. Is there any excessive smoke when you are under power, this could also indicate a bad fueling situation.

    Have a good day.
    Hi Landy nut

    It is an 18P (Green injectors??) - 2002 model.

    I have NO oil dilution and NO excessive smoke when under load

    Performance is great / fuel economy fantastic

    I strongly feel that something has gone wrong with the injector when the washers and O-rings were done but it really baffles me that the diag. is not picking up an imbalance

    I am will take them out tonight and report back.

    Thanks!
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    Electrically you not picking up an imbalance, on the diagnostic, but are you in fact got a fuel delivery problem?

    I suspect the washes or a faulty injector nozzle


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  16. #15
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    Have you checked the ecu connector? It only takes a month or so to come back.
    Next thing - check fuel pressure under load. Pump might be on the way

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baben View Post
    Have you checked the ecu connector? It only takes a month or so to come back.
    Next thing - check fuel pressure under load. Pump might be on the way

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    Hi Baben

    I have been keeping an eye on the plug ever since I had the landy - I have never had oil in the ECU plug - only ever in the plug going into the head..replaced the harnass and has been spotless since..

    I also replaced the turbo and the fuel pump when the head was off

    Haydn

    Did not consider that injector nozzle problems wont indicated on diagnostics.

    I do think then it must either be that or the washers.

    Will take them out tomorrow night - only got back from work now, will upload some pics of my findings!
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  18. #17
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    Default Diesel knock

    Hi Hardebak

    You mentioned that this occured since you replace the "o" rings and copper washers. Just a thought you might want to check or have checked your bump heights again , one or more of your injectors might just be out of synch.

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    In that case I would certainly redo the washers. Have a close look if the seating area is clean and flat inside the head. Clean everything with carb cleaner or similar. And pls use 300tdi washers, they do work better.

    Swop them around if you want.

    It is the exception where injector coding will give you problems. I've swopped ECU's around too many times... Record the codes if you like so you have it if necessary.

    For curiosity sake pls check the plunger distances before you disassemble. Would be funny if one is set way out or something...
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoMad View Post
    In that case I would certainly redo the washers. Have a close look if the seating area is clean and flat inside the head. Clean everything with carb cleaner or similar. And pls use 300tdi washers, they do work better.

    Swop them around if you want.

    It is the exception where injector coding will give you problems. I've swopped ECU's around too many times... Record the codes if you like so you have it if necessary.

    For curiosity sake pls check the plunger distances before you disassemble. Would be funny if one is set way out or something...
    Great - will pick up the parts tomorrow..Really hope this solves it!!

    What exactly does the plunger height adjustment do?

    Can you venture a quick explanation for how to set them? (I have a pretty good idea of how to do everything but that )

    Thanks!
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