EB License - The Actual valid process - Page 11





Page 11 of 11 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
Results 201 to 220 of 220
  1. #201
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Pretoria
    Age
    33
    Posts
    64
    Thanked: 7

    Default Re: EB License - The Actual valid process

    Quote Originally Posted by LouisF View Post
    GCM is only applicable to articulated vehicles (see attached picture). Vehicle plus trailer is not an articulated vehicle. Therefore you can legally tow a trailer of 2200kg in your case with EB license. However, there is contradicting laws, regulations and advice floating around.
    Thanks.

    What I'll do in any case is send the same question off to my insurance to get their reply in writing before making any other moves.

    A fine from a traffic cop is one thing to absorb and/or fight in court; Having to dispute a non-payment from your insurance due to licensing issues is a totally different ballgame. Getting things in writing from them saved my bum on at least one occasion.

    I can totally understand that the actual traffic cop on the road can have a totally unpredictable interpretation of the laws than we do.

    Thanks for all the inputs thus far.

  2. #202
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Pretoria
    Age
    33
    Posts
    64
    Thanked: 7

    Default Re: EB License - The Actual valid process

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfus View Post
    Here is a nice drawing to explain the license codes
    Thanks

    Just a question, the last part of the sentence for EB states it also cover A and A1, which is for motorbikes...? Surely this is an error?

  3. #203
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Doringkloof
    Age
    56
    Posts
    108
    Thanked: 74

    Default Re: EB License - The Actual valid process

    Quote Originally Posted by apviljoen2 View Post
    Thanks

    Just a question, the last part of the sentence for EB states it also cover A and A1, which is for motorbikes...? Surely this is an error?
    Yes it is, I mailed them. It is supposed to say exlude A and A1.
    Hopefully they correct it.
    It is a long road to eternity, enjoy the journey.

    Subaru XV Silver 2019 (Ghost In the Machine)

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Wolfus For This Useful Post:


  5. #204
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Centurion
    Age
    37
    Posts
    332
    Thanked: 37

    Default Re: EB License - The Actual valid process

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfus View Post
    Here is a nice drawing to explain the license codes
    There is 1 combination they are missing which created some debate over this holiday season and that is a double cab bakkie towing a caravan and also a beach buggy.

    Some say you need EC1 and some say EB is fine....so which is it?
    Charl

    2008 Triton 3.5 V6 (4x4) D/C
    2001 M-Benz C200K
    2009 D4D Hilux SC 4x4 - Sold

  6. #205
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Doringkloof
    Age
    56
    Posts
    108
    Thanked: 74

    Default Re: EB License - The Actual valid process

    Quote Originally Posted by Captainhook View Post
    There is 1 combination they are missing which created some debate over this holiday season and that is a double cab bakkie towing a caravan and also a beach buggy.

    Some say you need EC1 and some say EB is fine....so which is it?
    I'm reading the actual act and amendments, but could not find something yet. But in my experience with heavy vehicles and towing I won't do it because there is no working brakes on the beach buggy while being towed. May an insurance expert like Raymond can chip in if Tuffstuff will pay out when there is an oops with the combination.
    It is a long road to eternity, enjoy the journey.

    Subaru XV Silver 2019 (Ghost In the Machine)

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to Wolfus For This Useful Post:


  8. #206
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Centurion
    Age
    37
    Posts
    332
    Thanked: 37

    Default Re: EB License - The Actual valid process

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfus View Post
    I'm reading the actual act and amendments, but could not find something yet. But in my experience with heavy vehicles and towing I won't do it because there is no working brakes on the beach buggy while being towed. May an insurance expert like Raymond can chip in if Tuffstuff will pay out when there is an oops with the combination.

    Another example of combination that I saw was the guy we went fishing with....he's got one of the new double cabs and he towed a fishing boat with a venter behind the boat. The "road police jumping from the shade" did actually stop him and he produced his EC1 licence.

    1) I wonder if they would have fined him if he had an EB licence?
    2) I would love to know if the insurance will cover this as a legal combination?
    Charl

    2008 Triton 3.5 V6 (4x4) D/C
    2001 M-Benz C200K
    2009 D4D Hilux SC 4x4 - Sold

  9. #207
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Doringkloof
    Age
    56
    Posts
    108
    Thanked: 74

    Default Re: EB License - The Actual valid process

    Restriction on combination of motor vehicles
    Reg 222. (1) Subject to subregulation (3), no person shall operate on a public road any combination of motor vehicles—
    (a) other than a drawing vehicle and one or two trailers;
    (b) other than a motor vehicle drawing one other motor vehicle which is not a trailer; and
    (c) other than a motor vehicle drawing another motor vehicle which is not a trailer, and a trailer, in the case of an emergency or a breakdown.

    a say you may tow 2 trailers and c say you may not tow a caravan/trailer + beach buggy.

    And if I interpret EB definition correctly you only need EB if the towing vehicle + trailer + trailer does not exceed the Gross Combined Weight rating of the towing vehicle as long as the tare of the towing vehicle is less than 3500kg and the trailers are braked.

    It is a long road to eternity, enjoy the journey.

    Subaru XV Silver 2019 (Ghost In the Machine)

  10. #208
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Port Elizabeth
    Age
    35
    Posts
    5,515
    Thanked: 1188

    Default Re: EB License - The Actual valid process

    Quote Originally Posted by Captainhook View Post
    Another example of combination that I saw was the guy we went fishing with....he's got one of the new double cabs and he towed a fishing boat with a venter behind the boat. The "road police jumping from the shade" did actually stop him and he produced his EC1 licence.

    1) I wonder if they would have fined him if he had an EB licence?
    2) I would love to know if the insurance will cover this as a legal combination?
    EB licence is perfect. As long as the total length is not more than 22m or you exceeding the GCM.
    Sent from my iPhone


  11. The Following User Says Thank You to Rebel 4x4 For This Useful Post:


  12. #209
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Pretoria
    Age
    33
    Posts
    64
    Thanked: 7

    Default Re: EB License - The Actual valid process

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfus View Post
    Restriction on combination of motor vehicles
    Reg 222. (1) Subject to subregulation (3), no person shall operate on a public road any combination of motor vehicles—
    (a) other than a drawing vehicle and one or two trailers;
    (b) other than a motor vehicle drawing one other motor vehicle which is not a trailer; and
    (c) other than a motor vehicle drawing another motor vehicle which is not a trailer, and a trailer, in the case of an emergency or a breakdown.

    a say you may tow 2 trailers and c say you may not tow a caravan/trailer + beach buggy.

    And if I interpret EB definition correctly you only need EB if the towing vehicle + trailer + trailer does not exceed the Gross Combined Weight rating of the towing vehicle as long as the tare of the towing vehicle is less than 3500kg and the trailers are braked.
    What I am wondering is whether point c only allows that Car+Car+Trailer configuration in the case of emergency/breakdown only?

    Again, the issue only really pertains to potential issues with an insurance claims, so I would check with my broker before proceeding.

  13. #210
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Doringkloof
    Age
    56
    Posts
    108
    Thanked: 74

    Default Re: EB License - The Actual valid process

    Quote Originally Posted by apviljoen2 View Post
    What I am wondering is whether point c only allows that Car+Car+Trailer configuration in the case of emergency/breakdown only?

    Again, the issue only really pertains to potential issues with an insurance claims, so I would check with my broker before proceeding.
    Yes emergency/breakdown only.
    Not only insurance but a fine also.
    It is a long road to eternity, enjoy the journey.

    Subaru XV Silver 2019 (Ghost In the Machine)

  14. #211
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Oudtshoorn
    Age
    31
    Posts
    245
    Thanked: 18

    Default Re: EB License - The Actual valid process

    So if you have EC you can now drive a motorcycle too? They told me to do the whole process again for motorcycle.

  15. #212
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Doringkloof
    Age
    56
    Posts
    108
    Thanked: 74

    Default Re: EB License - The Actual valid process

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim101 View Post
    So if you have EC you can now drive a motorcycle too? They told me to do the whole process again for motorcycle.
    No, that document I have uploaded should say excluding motorcycles. sorry about that bit of confusion.

    Wish it was true though, because I have EC but no motorcycle.
    It is a long road to eternity, enjoy the journey.

    Subaru XV Silver 2019 (Ghost In the Machine)

  16. #213
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Pretoria
    Age
    61
    Posts
    1,510
    Thanked: 347

    Default Re: EB License - The Actual valid process

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfus View Post
    I'm reading the actual act and amendments, but could not find something yet. But in my experience with heavy vehicles and towing I won't do it because there is no working brakes on the beach buggy while being towed. May an insurance expert like Raymond can chip in if Tuffstuff will pay out when there is an oops with the combination.
    ”oops” won’t cut it, unfortunately.☹️
    I have never seen a wild animal feeling sorry for itself.

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to Raymond du Plessis For This Useful Post:


  18. #214
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Centurion
    Age
    37
    Posts
    332
    Thanked: 37

    Default Re: EB License - The Actual valid process

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond du Plessis View Post
    ”oops” won’t cut it, unfortunately.☹️
    Hi Raymond,

    Do you perhaps know if Tuff Stuff will payout in the event of an accident when you use the 3.2 Ranger as a drawing vehicle + boat + venter?
    I don't know the actual weight of the boat + trailer but I would guess it is about 2t. The little venter is obviously unbraked and less than 750kg.

    The combination is bakkie (GVM 3200kg) + braked trailer (2000kg) + venter (unbraked - GVM 750kg)
    EDIT: Considering you only have an EB licence
    Last edited by Captainhook; 2019/01/11 at 07:03 AM.
    Charl

    2008 Triton 3.5 V6 (4x4) D/C
    2001 M-Benz C200K
    2009 D4D Hilux SC 4x4 - Sold

  19. #215
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Pretoria
    Age
    61
    Posts
    1,510
    Thanked: 347

    Default Re: EB License - The Actual valid process

    Quote Originally Posted by Captainhook View Post
    Hi Raymond,

    Do you perhaps know if Tuff Stuff will payout in the event of an accident when you use the 3.2 Ranger as a drawing vehicle + boat + venter?
    I don't know the actual weight of the boat + trailer but I would guess it is about 2t. The little venter is obviously unbraked and less than 750kg.

    The combination is bakkie (GVM 3200kg) + braked trailer (2000kg) + venter (unbraked - GVM 750kg)
    EDIT: Considering you only have an EB licence
    If the license does not match the rig combination or if overloaded, then payout cannot be expected and l am sure that insurers will reject. It’s quite simple.....stay inside the legal parameters. Breaking the law through ignorance or deliberately, is no excuse and will hold no water in the event of a claim.
    Last edited by Raymond du Plessis; 2019/01/11 at 06:44 PM.
    I have never seen a wild animal feeling sorry for itself.

  20. #216
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Friemersheim, Southern Cape
    Age
    57
    Posts
    3,806
    Thanked: 2144

    Default Re: EB License - The Actual valid process

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond du Plessis View Post
    If the license does not match the rig combination or if overloaded, then payout cannot be expected and l am sure that insurers will reject. It’s quite simple.....stay inside the legal parameters.
    From other threads...like 'This came as news to me' where the legal parameters are ambigious and intepretations are varied?
    Is the consumer/customer not at a disadvantage vis-a-vis corporate lawyers etc?
    1998 Daihatsu Rocky 'The Kitty'
    2002 Daihatsu Rocky 'The Bully'

  21. #217
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Pretoria
    Age
    61
    Posts
    1,510
    Thanked: 347

    Default Re: EB License - The Actual valid process

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof View Post
    From other threads...like 'This came as news to me' where the legal parameters are ambigious and intepretations are varied?
    Is the consumer/customer not at a disadvantage vis-a-vis corporate lawyers etc?
    The insured public has direct access to the FSCA (previously FSB) which is full
    of lawyers who act on their behalf and that service is for free. Corporate lawyers can be as big and strong as they may wish to project themselves to be, but there are volumes of case law to either support a rejection or shoot it out of the water.

    As l previously said..”Breaking the law through ignorance or deliberately, is no excuse and will hold no water in the event of a claim.”


    Last edited by Raymond du Plessis; 2019/01/11 at 09:04 PM.
    I have never seen a wild animal feeling sorry for itself.

  22. #218
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Johannesburg
    Age
    39
    Posts
    206
    Thanked: 4

    Default Re: EB License - The Actual valid process

    hi all, any recommendations for a good driving in school in JHB - westrand / northgate area?

  23. #219
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Centurion
    Age
    37
    Posts
    332
    Thanked: 37

    Default Re: EB License - The Actual valid process

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephan van Tonder View Post
    This is now again where half arsed written laws are left open for interpretation.......

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfus View Post
    Restriction on combination of motor vehicles
    Reg 222. (1) Subject to subregulation (3), no person shall operate on a public road any combination of motor vehicles—
    (a) other than a drawing vehicle and one or two trailers;
    (b) other than a motor vehicle drawing one other motor vehicle which is not a trailer; and
    (c) other than a motor vehicle drawing another motor vehicle which is not a trailer, and a trailer, in the case of an emergency or a breakdown.

    a say you may tow 2 trailers and c say you may not tow a caravan/trailer + beach buggy.

    And if I interpret EB definition correctly you only need EB if the towing vehicle + trailer + trailer does not exceed the Gross Combined Weight rating of the towing vehicle as long as the tare of the towing vehicle is less than 3500kg and the trailers are braked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond du Plessis View Post
    If the license does not match the rig combination or if overloaded, then payout cannot be expected and l am sure that insurers will reject. It’s quite simple.....stay inside the legal parameters. Breaking the law through ignorance or deliberately, is no excuse and will hold no water in the event of a claim.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond du Plessis View Post
    The insured public has direct access to the FSCA (previously FSB) which is full
    of lawyers who act on their behalf and that service is for free. Corporate lawyers can be as big and strong as they may wish to project themselves to be, but there are volumes of case law to either support a rejection or shoot it out of the water.

    As l previously said..”Breaking the law through ignorance or deliberately, is no excuse and will hold no water in the event of a claim.”


    Raymond I agree with you 100%. Its been proven many times over that ignorance is not a defense....you will however notice from the spirit of this threat that it no one here is saying: "Stuff this! (Sorry just a joke) We will not comply". Everybody (who aren't compliant) displays a wanting to become compliant even though they were ignorant and unaware of their non-compliance and have now learned something.

    There are however some combinations that fall outside the "norm" and the law did not cater for it specifically in words. Unless you "have a friend" or "know a guy" that has access to information or has been in an accident with such a combination then how will you know?

    This is clear cut:
    The 3.2 D/C 4x4 Ranger may tow an unbraked trailer less than 750kg and the operator may have a minimum of "B", "C1", or "C" licence.
    The 3.2 D/C 4x4 Ranger may tow a braked trailer of approx 3000kg (because it is less that 3500kg and in line with manufacturer recommendation) and the operator must have a minimum of "EB", "EC1", or "EC" licence.

    Here is what is ambiguous, and unless you have that special clever friend will stay a grey area:
    The law states under restriction (a) a drawing vehicle + 2 trailers are acceptable....
    Everywhere I look the clarification licence pictures mention a drawing vehicle plus "a trailer" and then it gives restrictions on the single trailer, but I can not find what the restrictions are on the 2nd trailer and how it affects the overall combination? (half arsed written laws...or is it perhaps old age and I need new glasses?)

    1) if you use the 3.2 D/C 4x4 Ranger (as an example) to draw 2 x unbraked Venter trailers each being below 750kg (having EB licence or do you require EC?)
    2) if you use the 3.2 D/C 4x4 Ranger (as an example) to draw a boat + a jet-ski where the boat+trailer is approx 2ton braked and the jet-ski is <750kg unbraked (having EB licence or do you require EC?).

    Here is why the above is ambiguous: Each of the single parts of the combination is compliant to the law and the total drawing is less than 3000kg (compliance to manufacturer recommendation and compliance to law)....but now it is across 2 trailers.
    Charl

    2008 Triton 3.5 V6 (4x4) D/C
    2001 M-Benz C200K
    2009 D4D Hilux SC 4x4 - Sold

  24. #220
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Bosveldsig, Nylstroom/Modimolle
    Age
    64
    Posts
    1,823
    Thanked: 177

    Default Re: EB License - The Actual valid process

    Quote Originally Posted by Captainhook View Post

    Here is what is ambiguous, and unless you have that special clever friend will stay a grey area:
    The law states under restriction (a) a drawing vehicle + 2 trailers are acceptable....
    Everywhere I look the clarification licence pictures mention a drawing vehicle plus "a trailer" and then it gives restrictions on the single trailer, but I can not find what the restrictions are on the 2nd trailer and how it affects the overall combination? (half arsed written laws...or is it perhaps old age and I need new glasses?)

    1) if you use the 3.2 D/C 4x4 Ranger (as an example) to draw 2 x unbraked Venter trailers each being below 750kg (having EB licence or do you require EC?)
    2) if you use the 3.2 D/C 4x4 Ranger (as an example) to draw a boat + a jet-ski where the boat+trailer is approx 2ton braked and the jet-ski is <750kg unbraked (having EB licence or do you require EC?).

    Here is why the above is ambiguous: Each of the single parts of the combination is compliant to the law and the total drawing is less than 3000kg (compliance to manufacturer recommendation and compliance to law)....but now it is across 2 trailers.
    Had the same worry, luckily I have an EC license and did not have problem.
    Now days only tow the BL Kewer, nothing extra.
    Danie & Marinda - die wiele is rond, dus moet hulle hardloop - afgetree nou leef ons net.
    2017 BL - Kewer B1115 RUS WA GP - bos en kamp tyd
    2016 Ford Fiesta Ecoboost - daaglikse ryding
    2013 Ford Ranger 3.2 DC XLT 4x4 - nuwe rondloop ry ding, nou sleep ons! (2017)
    2011 Echo 4, die RUSWA-ZN - (verkoop 44 000 km)
    2010 Ford Ranger 2.5 DT DC XLT 4x4 - rondloop ry ding met "bietjie ekstra" krag (Verkoop 177 000 km)
    2005 Chev Aveo - Afgeskryf (2016 130 000)
    2005 Opel Corsa 17DTi - Geruil (warm enjin 180 000)
    2003 Opel Corsa 17DTi - Geruil (warm enjin 150 00)
    2000 Nissan Hardbody - Geruil (pyne by die duisended 52 000 km)
    1998 Opel Kadett - Dogter se wiele geword in 2003 (baie warm enjin 116 000 km)
    1990 Datsun 1800 short wheelbase - Pa se ou plaas bakkie, na die Nissan die pad gevat het met sy probleme in 2003 (117 00km)
    1990 Hilux 2.4D - en hy kon loop, pomp en top gewerk aan.
    1984 Opel Commondore - het gehardloop
    1983 Safary 3 karavaan - verkoop en begin tent in 2000 (51 000 km)
    1980 Ford Granada 3.0 - warm enjin afgeskryf
    1969 VW 1600 TL - geen einde nie, warm enjin en geruil
    1968 VW 1600 L - geen einde en baie warm enjin, verkoop in 1998 (328 000 myl/525 000 km)

    .

Page 11 of 11 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11

Similar Threads

  1. Everything you must know about RADIOS !
    By JDeV in forum Vehicle & Technical Chat - General
    Replies: 49
    Last Post: 2015/12/28, 10:10 PM
  2. License Renewal help needed please
    By sohail1 in forum The 4x4 Pub
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 2011/12/21, 02:03 PM
  3. Who can train and issue a valid 4x4 “dcc” certificate
    By tinus4x4 in forum 4x4 Training / Certifications
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 2009/11/01, 09:49 PM
  4. Illegal Arrest for Fines
    By Rat in forum The 4x4 Pub
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: 2009/06/02, 07:10 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •