4x4 Recovery that went horribly wrong - Page 4





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  1. #61
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    Even if they used the ball and pin tow bar it still would have come off.

  2. #62
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    Talking Outlaws Recovery Service

    The outlaws were alledged to be doing the recoveries after the fact and apparently still using the tow balls BAAWA WAWAWA. and still the rest of the crowd accepted this . All you needed was a big tractor. If you are in deep mud its sometimes hell to pull someone out , you can pull yourself out of shape. As i said before it takes something like this to happen so something good comes out of it.. This is a good thread .
    ORA
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  3. #63
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    Well Clarence we won't say how I was towed then but with your expert driving I'm sure even Ian was comfortable with the safety issue Chris that was a Range Rover with a Checkers goose neck but yes simple safety pratices MUST BE ADHERED TOO.
    Morton the " BEAST " Berg
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  4. #64
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    Morton i think the difference is that at no stage were you snatched or yanked rather pulled. Yes it was on the tow ball. Tractors dont always work. I was stuck one on a trail were a tractor could not pull me out of the mud only an airbag and planks, the i was stuck in sinking sand were only a 4x4 tractor pulled me out. Different horses different courses.

  5. #65
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    We had a guest speaker from Bosal Towbars at one of our meetings and he claimed that he only knew of one gooseneck that had ever broken. What he did say though was that lots of times the welding or bolts shear before the gooseneck breaks. Seems like there is some truth in the matter. However I agree with never pulling or snatching on a towball/gooseneck.

    There was an e-mail attached to those photo's in which the author claimed to have approached several of the organisers to ask them not to use the towball and they just ignored him. Apparently one of the 4x4 TV presenters with his own show also never took any heed of this request.

    I have found that in most cases it's because of laziness or trying to rush that these accidents happen, ( Make a plan) as we used to say on the mines.

    Did you notice that they wrapped a tow strap around the snatch rope to try and weigh it down in case it came off , if they know about such things then surely they must know you never attach to a towball

    One person must always take charge in such situations and ensure that everything is hooked up correctly and that the drivers know what to do.

    I had to pull someone on Saturday and as I started pulling him he stood on his brakes what for I don't know even though my partner explained everything to him, maybe nerves.
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  6. #66
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    I think "don't use the towball" rule isn't really about the ball breaking, but the leaverage on the mounts, whereas with a pin type tow hitch the bolts are in pure straight line tension.

  7. #67
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    This damage was just a kinetic rope that broke, no shackle attached. I've seen something similar on the back of Johann Tyres' bakkie also from just the strap that broke. Gives you an idea of how much energy there's in a kinetic strap/rope.


  8. #68
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    Just found this post on a US Jeep forum, frightening and very sad!

    posted October 10, 2004 12:11 AM
    My best friend Died today at age of 37 Over a basic simple mistake!
    We where at our truckwars/mudbog for The Moonlight stompers On Duffield RD.

    After he broke his front end he desided to still play in 2wd. I had left and didn't see it happen but what happend was everyone got in a hurry and lots of trucks stuck with dozers and 6" straps all over the place ...
    David was an advacate of safety But we'll never know what went through his head this time... But they broke the cardanal rule os Hooking 2 (small) 3" straps together with a Clevis (wich is like a rocket and what killed him)and David was unfortunate to have the brand new strap on his Jeep (they where out of 6" straps that day so he bought a 3") so when the strap let loose from the other Jeep while David was truned around looking backwards being pulled out from the back...The Clevis hit him in the head and killed him instantly..
    He was the nicest man I know and would do anything for anyone!
    He was survived by his Wife and 5 yr old Son Both where there the wife seen it happen the son still doesn't know and wont be told untill tomorrow!
    I will post funeral arangments tomorrow and would request that anyone who cares PLEASE Show up and pay respects to his family..
    He died doing what he loved best and the wife said it would be a blessing to her to see all his friend show suport!
    He was the man that came Up to Grandmans and yogies with me....and if anyone has a picture of us in teh Jeep AT ALL could you post it here so we can print it out ...we are doing a clage of him and his Jeep for his wife and also a vidieo of him at all our mud bogs!
    We will set up a trust fund for his wife at a later date! I will repost all this info when I get back in town or have my wife do it all becasue im going away for work for 4 weeks But I will get the info to you!
    Any donations would be Great! also all vidios of that bog and of the vidieo of Just him will go to his wife!

    SO please use this as a warning and be more careful of using to small of a strap while pulling out people..and try to never use a Clevis in the middle..
    David knew this but failed to do it this one time probley figureing he wasn't stuck back and it would be ok and he paid for it with his Life!


    In loveing Memory of David Wycoff
    Aug 19th 1967- Oct 9th 2004

  9. #69
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    Barto what happend to Johans bakkie was the rope and that the stranded vehicles prop had come off in the front in the mud and the welding broke on the chassis, but the hook never came off the vehicle. I wounder what damage there would have been if it had been a strap

  10. #70
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    When I went to the dunes with Johann in December 2004, he had a dent in the back of his hilux, which he said was because of a kinetic strap that broke in the dunes earlier that week.

  11. #71
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    More kinetic strap induced damage....again very dangerous stuff.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFlnwZHb334

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  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by td54x4 View Post
    Engel's point was don't do it yourself!
    If you know what youre doing its fine. The problem is when you are not confident/qualified/able, then you stay away. Thats why I do my own stuff.....dont trust a palooka at megaworld or whereever!
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  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zantus View Post
    More kinetic strap induced damage....again very dangerous stuff.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFlnwZHb334

    Jeez - good job that was a left hand drive - if it was a RHD the driver would probably be dead...
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  15. #75

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    I think "don't use the towball" rule isn't really about the ball breaking, but the leaverage on the mounts, whereas with a pin type tow hitch the bolts are in pure straight line tension.
    I think you are on the right track here Zantus. But my conclusion to all this is I wouldnt use even a pin and ball type tow hitch for recovery.

    The real problem with the tow ball is that its mounted in the centre of vehicle on some sort of frame which is different for every vehicle. Which introduces all sorts of leverages and bending moments into the equation when you apply these sorts of forces to the vehicle.
    Becuase the force is applied to the frame in the centre which then has to distribute that force to the chasis members on the sides.

    Also there are usually at least one or two welded joints in there as well.

    As we all now know the strength of welded joints can vary considerably depending on:
    The skill of the welder
    The change in metalurgy of the steel that has been welded due to the heat, often making the steel brittle.
    Induced stress in the welded parts due to the localised heat input which often results in micro cracks

    Its thus far far better IMO to use recovery points that are bolted directly to the chassis in which the force is transmitted in a straight line to the chassis without any bending or leverage.
    Last edited by alanB; 2007/11/23 at 07:48 AM.

  16. #76
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    That is why I love my baki's factory fitted rear bar. It is the standard double steel pipe bar that is fitted to the ford/mazda’s. I fasten the snatch strap around both the pipes in the middle to spread the impact equally between the hightenstile steel bolts that keep the "bumper" in place.

    Though I have only used it 3x I have had no problem & with inspection after each snatch I have not seen any damage yet.


    Hein

    Mazda Drifter 2.5TD D/Cab 4x4 "BURAWA"

  17. #77
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    Thank goodness for that chap he was in the USA, left hand drive.....

    Scary stuff these recoveries. And the biggest problem is that people tend to rush the recovery.

  18. #78

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    That is why I love my baki's factory fitted rear bar. It is the standard double steel pipe bar that is fitted to the ford/mazda’s. I fasten the snatch strap around both the pipes in the middle to spread the impact equally between the hightenstile steel bolts that keep the "bumper" in place.
    A mate of mine who has a Hilux KZTE which has a similar rear tow bar/bumper had problem when I snatched him a while ago. The problem was that the bracket for the bumper bolts onto the chassis above/below the "line of pull" which results in a leverage effect which sheared one of the bolts off. He only noticed it much later when he tried to access his spare wheel. The bumper had moved upwards blocking access to the little hole you need to insert the handle for lowering the spare.

    I still think the answer is recovery points mounted directly onto the chassis and to use one of those recovery bridal's which spread the load accross both recovery points. Even if one breaks off, the bridal acts as a safety strap and stops the whole lot flying off into space.

  19. #79
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    What is the ratio of kinetic ropes breaking to Snatch straps breaking?

    In all the photos and my own experience, it is always a rope that breaks.
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  20. #80
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    The one thing that got me wondering about the "recovery" that started this thread...

    I was under the impression you should always try recover in the direction the vehicle came from (unless circumstances like access by the recovery vehicle dictate otherwise). Logic tells me a recovery in the direction you're trying to go is generally going to be significantly more difficult, because if that wasn't the case you' might not have not gotten stuck in the first place.

    I'm generalizing but if this was the case, why didn't they recover the Hilux the other way?

    Also, this has got me investigating recovery points on the rear (I'm told the factory one on the front is sufficient). My problem is that the high lift points have been welded where the recovery point would be bolted on.
    Last edited by SimonB; 2007/11/23 at 01:27 PM.
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