Need help with engie noise





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  1. #1
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    Default Need help with engie noise

    I have posted this on the Land Cruiser Club as well, but can do with some more views/opinions:

    I need some help.....again......this time with a weird engine noise on a 1HZ: The symptoms are as follows (sorry for the long post trying to give as much information as possible)

    1. No noise on a cold start up and does not manifest until operating temperature is reached.
    2. The noise sounds almost like the expansion or contraction through heat changes in the outlet manifold or exhaust - it sound like a loud "tick" kind of noise.....just louder.
    3. The noise is getting worse and is now scaring me (this symptom related to owner!)
    4. When idling the "tick" can be heard intermittently and only a single tick at a time
    5. When lifting the revs to 1500 the tick becomes wild and continuous for about 5 minutes and then settles down again. When you drop the revs for a bit and pick it up again, the noise is back.
    6. The noise follows engine revs and not wheel revolutions
    7. It is present irrespective of "working" or relaxing the engine. If I make it work in gear, or have it run against the gears or have it run in neutral, it is the same. Running in neutral and playing with the revs provides the same effect, so I doubt the gearbox is to blame.
    8. Engaging or disengaging the transfer case, moving or not, makes no difference.
    9. The noise is more audible at the outlet manifold side than it is on the injector side and sounds as if it is around the rear of the engine around the nr 5 cylinder (more or less).
    10. Start-up is smooth. Idling is smooth and the vehicle does not smoke. It pulls normally and fuel consumption is normal (no change over time and spot on with the averages for the 1HZ)

    What I have done so far:
    1. Taken to Toyota where I spent a good while with one of the mechanics that work on the 1HZ. He certainly talks the talk and says he has not heard something like that before. They want it for a few days to figure it out.
    2. I have used a pin stethoscope and have been probing and listening all over. I cannot hear the noise anywhere on the injector side or on any of the outlet pipes. Lower on the block I can hear it slightly on the outlet side. Cannot hear it anywhere on the gearbox. If I crawl under the engine it seems particularly load, but could also be the sound reflecting from the floor. Pushing the pin against the sump retainer bolts on the outlet side I can hear it best.
    3. A theory offered by Toyota is cracked injectors through lean fuel settings. I have heard broken injectors before, but do not know what a cracked injector should sound like. I am not too sure about this theory though as start-up is smooth, idle is smooth and it does not smoke.
    Any advice or checking would be appreciated. I will take it in to Toyota to do their thing next week, but would like to be able to provide at least some pointers as they are running as blind as I am at this point in time.

    In closing, it is not a dull knock like a big end would make. It is also not a valve or some gremlin on the cam. It is not a piston knock, and if it was slapping it would sound different and be worse on start up. The sound is also to sharp for a small end. It is not a normal use sound and it is getting worse, so something is about to go.

    I guess the Toyota mechie summed it up nicely when he said that they do not have too much experience on fixing 1HZs as they never give any trouble hence them not knowing what the dickens this sound is.
    Engine is stock standard.
    Toyota Land Cruiser 79 4.2D SC
    Toyota Hilux 2.4 GD6 DC
    ZS5RJ

  2. #2
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    Not having any knowledge on this engine, my guess would be a hydraulic lifter beginning to come to the end of its life. Works fine when could and as everything starts heating up it starts to stick, hence the ticking noise. Warn out lifters always makes a noise and is a easy one to diagnose. Once had a lifter that seized in the open position and caused a terrible mis but when I put foot and the rpm climb it went away.
    Good luck in finding the cause.

    PS. Lifter on the outlet valve side?

  3. #3
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    A loose conrod bearing cap or a broken bolt perhaps? Open the sump and check immediately! It may just save you a new block and conrod. When last did you change the oil? The old XR3 engines had a thing with dirty oil. The lifters started making a noise if the oil was dirty.
    Pieter Kemp.
    2011 Isuzu 300d-teq 4x4 d/c
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  4. #4
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    Oil change 1000 km ago. Engine has only 30 000km on it. Oil changes to a "T" up to date.
    Toyota Land Cruiser 79 4.2D SC
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  5. #5
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    Check those bearing caps and bolts, it may just save you a lot. If it is not that, then you know.
    Pieter Kemp.
    2011 Isuzu 300d-teq 4x4 d/c
    Home built Blapsie caravan.
    The decision you make today, will determine the road you walk tomorrow

  6. #6
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    If there was a bearing cap problem, then there would be a oil pressure problem as well.

    Sometimes the spring in the injectors snap. So maybe release the feed line to the injectors, 1 by 1. To see if the feed to the injector could make a dif.
    LC 78 Troopie 1HD-FTE
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  7. #7
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    Thanks Henri

    Will check in the morning and let you know
    Toyota Land Cruiser 79 4.2D SC
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  8. #8
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    Rigardt, my work vehicle is a 2011 Cruiser with 28 000km on the clock since new. Had that noise since new and in my case it is most audible around 2400rpm. The Toyota mechanic who did the PDS said it is valve train noise and not to worry. I never worried futher about it and it did not deteriorate or caused any problems. The vehicle is used up and down the decline of a mine in 4wd and 2nd gear all the time meaning that the engine works very hard. We only change oil and filters every 5000 km and that is the sum total of work done on the engine. Bulletproof engines they are. Three other Cruisers - same age- never had the noise problem.

  9. #9
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    Thanks Woestynbrak. That certainly is re-assuring, but the noise does concern me. I guess if it brakes we will know exactly what it is! I must also say that any stealer mechanic that says I should not worry, makes me worry! The one I visited agreed that it is not normal and should not be that way.
    Toyota Land Cruiser 79 4.2D SC
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  10. #10
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    With 30000kms it is still under warranty hopefully? Then Bob's your uncle.

    2012 Sport FJ Cruiser "Black&White RiceBowl"
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  11. #11
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    Rigardt send you a PM on LCCSA

  12. #12
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    Thanks Jan, have responded
    Toyota Land Cruiser 79 4.2D SC
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  13. #13
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    En? Het jy al die fout gekry?
    Pieter Kemp.
    2011 Isuzu 300d-teq 4x4 d/c
    Home built Blapsie caravan.
    The decision you make today, will determine the road you walk tomorrow

  14. #14
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    Would love to hear what you found out with this as it sounds EXACTLY like the noise I'm experiencing with my 1kz-te!
    http://4x4community.co.za/forum/showthread.php?t=126632

    I know its a different engine but diesels are supposed to be simple! I have put mine down to oil in the intake changing the air charge enough to change the cetane rating of the fuel and cause detonation.
    (I go through a fair bit of oil but does not smoke until the noise is really loud. If I take the intake off and let her rev the noise is absent.
    My thoughts are turbo seal and oil getting past when its hot and viscous.)

  15. #15
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    Just an update here.....I am zoning in on the nr 5 injector as the culprit. I have probed with a stethoscope, done the stripping, bleeding, idling, reving etc and am putting my money on the injector (with the smart guidance of some clever people in the thread). Toyota has agreed to check if we are correct and repair under warranty and the vehicle will be going in on Monday. Will keep you posted
    Toyota Land Cruiser 79 4.2D SC
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  16. #16
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    OK, vehicle with Toyota today. Will update with diagnosis and post pictures if I can get some
    Toyota Land Cruiser 79 4.2D SC
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  17. #17
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    OK, quick update here.....
    Toyota SA is in on the deal and has instructed the engine to be stripped. Engine will be removed tomorrow and it will be measured and checked part by part all the way up. Might be that TSA would also like to inspect some parts. The injectors have not been removed yet. It is unfortunate that that we have to open a motor, but pleased that TSA and Halfway seems pretty serious in figuring this one out.
    Will keep you posted
    Toyota Land Cruiser 79 4.2D SC
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  18. #18
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    Have they started stripping?

    Just a hunch, see if it still does it with the oil cap off or dipstick removed or ccv pipe taken off. Basically check if it still does it when you are sure the crankcase is not under pressure.

    My suspicion os that the crankcase vapours may not be venting and popping somewhere every so often to vent the pressure somewhere.

    Long shot, but worth a try before they take the engine apart.


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  19. #19
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    Hi Marius. I am in TSA hands now. They seem to have some protocol that kicks in and I am only too happy that they are serious about it and will pick up the tab. Best I can do now is to report the progress.
    Toyota Land Cruiser 79 4.2D SC
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  20. #20
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    Whilst they got the engine open, let them check the check valves on the oil spray nozzles that lubricate the piston sleeves. No lubrication to a piston can also cause piston noise that could sound like "piston slap"

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