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  1. #21
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post

    I must still find the fart-head that claims you don't need to spool down a turbo.
    Yes. Post his name here on a new thread if you find him

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Range Rover TDV8

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    Claiming that the ladder frame of the RRS is responsible for Turbo failures is as far fetched as claiming 2So ..............

    Realistically, almost none of the cooling of a turbo comes from ambient air flow. If it did the turbo would have big high surface area fins on it like the aluminum heat sinks in electrical/onic equipment, or even water cooling from the cooling system.
    Not quite Fluffy

    when you look at the BBRR and the RRS and how on the RRS that V8 is shoe-horned in there, then you will understand.

    In any way the main culprit on the turbo failures (rare) on the TDV8's is the fresh oil feed line to the turbos which runs too close to the exhaust manifolds.

    I know that BABEN had ceramically coated the exhaust manifolds on their RRS. This will give some protection but is only a worthwhile exercise, when the body is off (RRS).
    George Bosch
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  3. #23
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    Default Re: Range Rover TDV8

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    I must still find the fart-head that claims you don't need to spool down a turbo.
    Hi Jelo

    that will be quite a hunt. On the D3/D4/RRS/BBRR it is more difficult to get a handle on the turbo heat situation, as a Madman is not easy to install in them.

    But what has always worked for me is to reduce speed when travelling on the highway that last 2-3 kilometres before turning off to the Ultra City etc. This reduces the required idle time before engine shutdown.
    George Bosch
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  4. #24
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    Default Re: Range Rover TDV8

    We are talking about the BBRR and RRS. From what i understand the shapes are RRS, and then the longer shape RR of the same era as the RRS is known as the FFRR which is the full fat range rover and then you get the latest iteration which is known as the BBRR being big body.
    am i correct in this?

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Range Rover TDV8

    I don't see how airflow can aid the lifespan of a turbo.

    Some race cars, F1 and the new audi V8 TDi has the turbo in the V.

    Turbo failures are simple

    debris
    bad oil
    lack of oil
    lack of oil pressure
    overspeed

    Give a turbo good clean oil and idle down and it will last almost forever. The one perhaps works harder than the other and lack of idle down gums up the oil galleries in the turbo as the oil cooks away.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Range Rover TDV8

    Quote Originally Posted by Desperate Dan View Post
    We are talking about the BBRR and RRS. From what i understand the shapes are RRS, and then the longer shape RR of the same era as the RRS is known as the FFRR which is the full fat range rover and then you get the latest iteration which is known as the BBRR being big body.
    am i correct in this?

    FFRR and BBRR are just names owners of the vehicles have given them, it is not official by any stretch. FFRR and BBRR refers to the same vehicle.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Range Rover TDV8

    Quote Originally Posted by Desperate Dan View Post
    We are talking about the BBRR and RRS. From what i understand the shapes are RRS, and then the longer shape RR of the same era as the RRS is known as the FFRR which is the full fat range rover and then you get the latest iteration which is known as the BBRR being big body.
    am i correct in this?
    BBRR and FFRR are the same thing in either generation.

    Up until the introduction of the RRS there was only one derivative of the RR at any one time. There was no confusion in the market. A RR was a RR.

    Simply placing your keys on the counter in the pub at the Yacht/Polo/Bowls club would guarantee you a place in the committee.

    With the introduction of the RRS this automatic bragging right was diluted and owners of "proper" Range Rovers invented a way of preserving the value of their status symbols.

    Depending one where you were from you adapted a new name for the car.

    If you were from a larney gated estate in Kyalami or Sandton you called it FFRR
    If you were from anything East of Midrand you called it a BBRR

    I am lucky to own both. I simply call the one "the Sport" and the other "the lazy old cow"
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD
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  8. #28
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    Default Re: Range Rover TDV8

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    BBRR and FFRR are the same thing in either generation.

    Up until the introduction of the RRS there was only one derivative of the RR at any one time. There was no confusion in the market. A RR was a RR.

    Simply placing your keys on the counter in the pub at the Yacht/Polo/Bowls club would guarantee you a place in the committee.

    With the introduction of the RRS this automatic bragging right was diluted and owners of "proper" Range Rovers invented a way of preserving the value of their status symbols.

    Depending one where you were from you adapted a new name for the car.

    If you were from a larney gated estate in Kyalami or Sandton you called it FFRR
    If you were from anything East of Midrand you called it a BBRR

    I am lucky to own both. I simply call the one "the Sport" and the other "the lazy old cow"
    Hi Fluffy

    Sorry but here you are now really wrong

    Your P38 and the RRS are both ladder frame chassis based vehicles.

    The L322 (2002 - 2013 and affectionately named FFRR or BBRR) is a completely different design based on a monocoque body (no need for a ladder frame). It has 3 subframes, one for the engine and front suspenson, one for the gearbox/TFC and one for the final drive and rear suspension.

    The front and rear suspension arms are bolted to the the subframes and NOT to a ladder frame.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by hgbosch; 2016/03/08 at 06:02 PM.
    George Bosch
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  9. #29
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    Default Re: Range Rover TDV8

    Quote Originally Posted by hgbosch View Post
    Hi Fluffy

    Sorry but here you are now really wrong

    Your P38 and the RRS are both ladder frame chassis based vehicles.

    The L322 (2002 - 2013 and affectionately named FFRR or BBRR) is a completely different design based on a monocoque body (no need for a ladder frame). It has 3 subframes, one for the engine and front suspenson, one for the gearbox/TFC and one for the final drive and rear suspension.

    The front and rear suspension arms are bolted to the the subframes and NOT to a ladder frame.
    Pee off George, you are making me cross.

    I made no mention of chassis construction, and you are so bloody determined to always be right that you don't read my posts and regurgitate irrelevant rubbish to look clever.

    I am not an idiot, and don't need a lecture on ladder frames and the need or not for them, and you are WRONG.

    Up until the RRS all Range Rovers where just that, Range Rovers.

    There was no need prior to the intro of the RRS to differentiate the models with the designation FFRR or BBRR. That was invented after the RRS became available, and we (YOU) now incorrectly refer to the 2002 - 2005 Range Rovers as BBRR or FFRR in an attempt to make a statement that you don't own the baby RR (Sport)

    I am not using any smileys because I really am cross and have a mouth full of cotton wool and blood and I cant have a beer.
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD
    3 V8's
    NA TwinTurbo SuperCharger
    A V6 and an inline 4

    The frogs are starting to notice that the water is getting warm but it is already too hot to do anything about it.....

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Range Rover TDV8

    Yes,the question was about body styles not build diffs!!You did forget that RRC was the first mention of diff body styles!!!
    Regards,
    Frans
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    Default Re: Range Rover TDV8

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    Pee off George, you are making me cross.

    I made no mention of chassis construction, and you are so bloody determined to always be right that you don't read my posts and regurgitate irrelevant rubbish to look clever.

    I am not an idiot, and don't need a lecture on ladder frames and the need or not for them, and you are WRONG.

    Up until the RRS all Range Rovers where just that, Range Rovers.

    There was no need prior to the intro of the RRS to differentiate the models with the designation FFRR or BBRR. That was invented after the RRS became available, and we (YOU) now incorrectly refer to the 2002 - 2005 Range Rovers as BBRR or FFRR in an attempt to make a statement that you don't own the baby RR (Sport)

    I am not using any smileys because I really am cross and have a mouth full of cotton wool and blood and I cant have a beer.
    So the Evoque is called the RR-lite?

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Range Rover TDV8

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoFrans View Post
    Yes,the question was about body styles not build diffs!!You did forget that RRC was the first mention of diff body styles!!!
    Regards,
    Frans

    Yes, quite so. If you want to be pedantic then besides chassis construction the difference between pre and prior 2002 Range Rovers would include a host of technical evolution, like CAN Bus on board vehicle communications..

    The Classic was the original and falls squarely into the designation Range Rover or RR with no further clarification needed at the time.

    We only call it a RRC now. At the time it was simply a Range Rover.

    If you went up to somebody in 1983 and said you had a Range Rover, they would understand. If you said you a Range Rover Classic they would have thought you are nutter.

    If you went up to somebody in 2003 and said you had a Range Rover, they would understand. If you said you a Big Body or Full Frame Range Rover they would have thought you are nutter.

    ------

    The designation RRC came to be after the P38 was introduced.

    The designation BBRR or FFRR came about after the RRS was introduced.

    Ziltch to do with the specific engineering technologies applied.
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD
    3 V8's
    NA TwinTurbo SuperCharger
    A V6 and an inline 4

    The frogs are starting to notice that the water is getting warm but it is already too hot to do anything about it.....

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Range Rover TDV8

    Quote Originally Posted by JohanSlabbert View Post
    So the Evoque is called the RR-lite?

    Well yes.

    So we have

    In their own times, up until 2005 only Range Rovers. There was only one body shape available at any instant in time.

    Then introduce the Sport. Now people who want to brag invent a new name/s. So now we have RR, BBRR, FFRR and RRS

    Then introduce Evoque. So now we have RR, FFRR, BBRR, RRS and RR Evoque.

    None of those designations have anything to do with chassis design. If they did we would call the Evoque a BBRR or FFRR because it is a monocoque chassis .
    Last edited by Fluffy; 2016/03/08 at 08:20 PM.
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD
    3 V8's
    NA TwinTurbo SuperCharger
    A V6 and an inline 4

    The frogs are starting to notice that the water is getting warm but it is already too hot to do anything about it.....

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Range Rover TDV8



    Well we can spin that then further and say that the RRS basically is a D3 with a fancy body and That IS what prompted the differentiation. In the UK the RRS diesels came out with the TDV6 and the TDV8 was a higher cost option.

    RRS and FFRR are two COMPLETELY different vehicles.

    As far as offroad features are concerned, the major difference is the diagonally cross linked wheel articulation management, which basically gives the FFRR air suspension with Defender like wheel articulation.

    We don't want to be pedantic and go into minute details but now all of you can read why and how the BBRR/FFRR terminology came about.
    Last edited by hgbosch; 2016/03/08 at 07:56 PM.
    George Bosch
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  15. #35
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    Default Re: Range Rover TDV8

    Quote Originally Posted by JS-V8 View Post
    FFRR and BBRR are just names owners of the vehicles have given them, it is not official by any stretch. FFRR and BBRR refers to the same vehicle.
    FFRR = Full Fat RR
    BBRR = Big Body RR

    http://www.fullfatrr.com
    George Bosch
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  16. #36
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    Default Re: Range Rover TDV8

    Quote Originally Posted by hgbosch View Post


    Well we can spin that then further and say that the RRS basically is a D3 with a fancy body and That IS what prompted the differentiation. In the UK the RRS diesels came out with the TDV6 and the TDV8 was a higher cost option.

    RRS and FFRR are two COMPLETELY different vehicles. YOU HONESTLY THINK THAT AS A FULL BLOWN Range Rover FAN and OWNER of two Range Rovers that I don't know that.


    As far as offroad features are concerned, the major difference is the diagonally cross linked wheel articulation management, which basically gives the FFRR air suspension with Defender like wheel articulation. NONSENSE, the RRS has a very sophisticated diagonally cross linked suspension.

    We don't want to be pedantic and go into minute details but now all of you can read why and how the BBRR/FFRR terminology came about. MORE NONSENSE the BBRR/FFRR terminology has nothing to do with the technologies employed. Ziltch. Its about differentiating body shapes.
    Eish.

    Which part of Big Body don't you understand.
    Last edited by Fluffy; 2016/03/08 at 08:17 PM.
    Cheers

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    The frogs are starting to notice that the water is getting warm but it is already too hot to do anything about it.....

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Range Rover TDV8

    Eish
    George Bosch
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  18. #38
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    Default Re: Range Rover TDV8

    Quote Originally Posted by hgbosch View Post
    Eish
    You and Fluffy have so much in common , I cannot understand why you two are not the bestest of friends .

  19. #39
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    Default Re: Range Rover TDV8

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaws. View Post
    You and Fluffy have so much in common , I cannot understand why you two are not the bestest of friends .
    and both can speak "Eish"

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Range Rover TDV8

    But this thread is very informative I personally always wondered what the RRFF stood for, so thank you for clearing it up ( about four times in this thread :-) )

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