Too much to read....
... what is the bottom line ?
|
This is the story on offer
I have been turning my HWC off for nearly 30 years with a timer.
Never had a problem. It has a copper tank.
The new ones have a galvanised tank. You will need to replace your anode avery year or so.
Otherwise they rust from inside. SABS approved as well.....they are rubbish in my opinion, but we dont have any other options. I dont see the copper ones sold any more.
Beware of turning your geyser off
>
Beware of turning your geyser off
<hr> 01 Jul 2011
While electricity provider Eskom has encouraged people to switch off their electric geysers overnight in order to save electricity, plumbers warn that leaving them off could damage the hot water pipes and even cause the geyser to burst.
Turning off a geyser at night to save electricity could result in burst water pipes and damage to the welding in these pipes say plumbing groups.
Kwikhot’s general manager of the service department, Wietz van Lelyveld, warns that the pipes inside the geyser expand when they are filled with hot water but after five hours or longer without electricity, cold water enters the pipe and the metal contracts.
This, he says, can lead to welding damage over time and may result in a geyser bursting.
Ryan Moore, managing director of Roto Rooter, says that while a geyser can be switched off during the peak demand period, it should be switched on before 10h00 to prevent damage to the geyser.
He says that Eskom used to insist that geysers were fitted with ripple relays so that these could be remotely controlled during peak demand but the utility had phased these out about ten years ago.
Mooreconfirmed that the company installs more replacement geysers over the winter period when customers are told to save energy by turning off their geysers without realising that they can be causing other damage.
Van Lelyveld and Moore both say that the best way of saving money on electricity is to install a solar water heater and, while the initial investment is relatively high, the savings are significant and the maintenance costs are minimal.
Readers' Comments Have a comment about this article? Email us now.
The article has left a big question mark in my mind.
Firstly the ripple relays have not been phased out 10 years ago as they are still in operation in some areas in Johannesburg.
Secondly, I am switching my geyser off for the last about 8 years and there is no problem with my geyser.
With regards to the pipes inside the geyser, maybe Kwikot can be more specific on what type of geyser they are talking about. If welding is of such a poor standard that a change in temperature of about 35 degrees (from ±15 to 50 degrees) with the maximum at about 50 - 55 degrees, (mine is at ± 45 degrees), then I seriously question the quality of Kwikot’s geysers.
I have heard from one plumber that the average lifespan of today’s geysers are about three years - that is his experience with his regular clients. He also indicated that some of the long warranties which one had on some geysers, have all fallen away. This is appalling. Maybe someone need to do some tests on our modern day geysers and expose the poor quality we are getting. - W. Ries
Cold water also enters the geyser everyday when you use it to shower or bath, how is that different from the cold water entering the geyser when you switch it of?
I will appreciate any explanation on the difference. - Anon
It happened to me 2 weeks ago. - S. Brierley
What is the deference between running a full bath (cooling the geyser down all the way) and leaving the geyser off during the night?
If you have a copper geyser (like I have) this does not even play a roll. I deal with solar systems every day, and if they are not properly installed you are worse of as if you did not have one at all.
Kwikhot should rather educate the public about replacing the anode in the geysers. (an anode prevents the geyser from being “eaten” from the inside by the water.
Replacing the anode after about 18 months will allow your geyser to last even up to 15 years and not just 3 years. - David Hartzenberg
If the geyser cools down in 5 hours, you have a crap geyser.
Cold water always enter the pipes that is why you fit a geyser.
This means that you should not bath as the volume of water leaving your geyser would be replaced with cold water and this will cause your geyser to burst.
The problem comes that over the years the geyser companies has changed from copper to iron tanks. Copper is softer, more flexible and less susceptible to corrosion. The iron tanks has anode that needs to be replaced regularly to reduce corrosion. This is not done and the tank seams are first to corrode due to the heat when welding. To proof my point, why does hot water copper pipes from the geyser to the tap not burst all the time. My pipes run outside the house, cools down and heats up every time you use hot water. Same pipes for over 36 years.
O and by the way Solar geysers only heats the water when the sun shines, thus the geyser is switched off for more than 10 hours in the day. The solar geysers element is set to work at night when the sun does not shine. So why would this not happen to solar geysers. Yes it is the same geyser with just extra pipes, unless you get the fibreglass tank version. - C. Viljoen
I also used to switch of my geyser then I my brother advised me to buy a time switch it switch itself on 3:00 morning then off again by 6:00. Am I also in danger of geyser burst? How could Eskom advice us for something which will cost us more than the electricity itself. - Mamothe
I think the article is poorly researched and lacks sufficient information to make an informed choice.
There are a few proven dangers to switching off the geyser, but they deal with extremely cold climates where water freezes in pipes and other similar related issues.
Expansion & contraction takes place during normal usage as the hot water leaves the geyser and is replaced with cold water, in winter, this temperature difference is greater than in summer and can obviously add to metal fatigue- especially on steel geyser tanks where the effects are greater than with copper geyser tanks.
There is always more wear & tear on a geyser and its components in colder weather where the cold water is at a lower temperature than during other times of the year. The element and thermostat activate more frequently and have to work longer to heat the water & to keep it hot. The expansion and contraction on the components is also greater due to the difference between the lower base temperature and the hot water temperature. This does not necessarily mean that geysers burst more in winter or if switched off for 12-18hrs a day, as normal usage will cause expansion/contraction anyway.
Regarding the claim that maintenance costs on a solar geyser is minimal; solar geysers have all the same components of a normal pressurised geyser installation. Pressure valves, vacuum breakers, tp safety valves are on both types of systems and therefore have the same maintenance costs and lifespan. The backup element and thermostat on a solar installation obviously has to heat less and therefore will have less maintenance over time.
Better advice for your readers is to advise them to insulate the water pipes and to install an electrical time switch on the DB Board. While an installation of a solar geyser will save the most electricity, it is also the largest expense. It is disingenuous to tell readers that "maintenance costs are minimal" on a solar geyser installation.
Please research your articles more thoroughly in future. - Harold Josman
I find it very disconcerting that information like this is passed off as factual, when even the smallest amount of logical thought applied to the situation will rubbish the assertion that switching off your geyser is bad for the geyser.
Geyser bursts occur when:
1. The temperature or pressure in the geyser exceeds the design specifications of the geyser by a large margin ( unlikely as the TP valve opens if the pressure exceeds the rated pressure of the geyser and the temperature exceeds 94 deg C). This would normally happen if the thermostat failed and the geyser would heat up to boiling point.
2. The geyser pressure vessel is compromised due to a lack of maintenance. Mild steel geysers come fitted with a sacrificial anode that has to be replaced regularly so as to inhibit corrosion, when this is not done, the hot water will accelerate the rate of corrosion especially in the areas around the element and the hot water outlet. In short it has a hole rusted through it.
3. A vacuum is formed in the geyser and the vacuum breakers fail. (this is a vacuum collapse and not a burst)
The rate at which the whole thing expands and contracts is a great deal slower than would be required to cause metal fatigue as heating typically takes an hour or more, thereby giving the metal sufficient time to expand. Pipes bursting would be either wear and tear or badly fitted pipes as especially copper pipes are extremely responsive to temperature changes and they routinely are subjected to massive temperature fluctuations. The fact that geysers often fail in winter is because the whole system takes more abuse during winter and to my mind is a natural consequence of this.
The major causes for geyser failures are too high temperatures, corrosion due to lack of maintenance and the use of cheap materials to make geysers as opposed to using more corrosion resistant materials like stainless steel, copper and glass fibre options and pray tell how will having a solar geyser change the situation.
All in all badly researched and deeply flawed arguments that presents anecdotal evidence as facts. - Gerwyn Wilsnagh
ORA
ORA
-------------------------
Ian
Too much to read....
... what is the bottom line ?
Kobus
True !!
I 've been switching my geyser off/on whenever i need warm water for the past 6 years and never had a problem
True -- you need to change the annode every year to lengthen the lifespan.
Lifespan also differs due to different water as well as at sea level the lifespan is much shorter..
Gerhard.
Mahindra Karoo S10.
What would it matter if you switch off a geyser after use, as the geyser would fill up with cold water in any case.......when the geyser refills with cold water it would have the same effect as switching it off, and on at a later stage.
Switching a geyser of when hot is counter productive, as energy saved, would be used threefold to reheat a cooled down geyser again.
My theory....switch off a cold geyser after morning use, and switch same on again the evening about an hour before use
EX: Mitsu Man
Gerhard de Lange
2014 Isuzu KB 250 DC 4x4
2013 Isuzu KB 300 Club
2003 Defender TD5 with everything.(My 4x4)
2005 Hyundai Getz
1962 Land Rover Series 11A 109 Inch (My project)
1962 Land Rover Series 11A 89 Inch (My other project)
when an "expert" makes a statement like "Eskom phased out ripple relays 10 years ago" I get WORRIED !!
They might have stopped installing them in new houses, BUT it is very much still in use many areas !! FACT !
When these so called experts cant get the basics right I question the rest of what they say ....
some BASICS -
when water heats up it EXPANDS.
When you fill a deep bath with hot water the geyser cools down a LOT.
When this new load of cold water heats up the water EXPANDS, causing immense pressure inside the geyser - this is why there is a pressure release valve. Just check the quantity of water that actually gets pushed out of a pressure releave valve under normal operation.
so immense pressure cycles are part of the daily routine of geysers.
True cold water fills your geayser while using. But its not as if the geyserbis empty while this happens. The cold water mixes with the hot which is why the water gets luke warm and then cold. So its not a shock on the pipes as explained. They get gradually colder.
Switching off and on also wont be an issue due to it also getting gradually colder and fact that the water is still very hot when switching on again.
If all this was true then you should never switch your geyser off when going away and yet this is one of the things recommended.
Off course geyser guys will say keep it on. The longer they work the quicker they break.
I think the article could have been referring to the type of pipe used. The soldered copper joints, i cant really see a problem if the correct grade of pipe and joint was used.
Where the problems could and i am just speculating here is the polycarb and the new white PVC white coated piping. If the couplings arent fixed and applied properly, they have been known to come apart. I am not sure if these products should be used on the hot water side though.
I am of the old school, i still prefer solid copper tubing with soldered or coupling joints.
ORA
-------------------------
Ian
Just a question: Where does the anode sit on a geyser?
Fred
2005 Colt (Ex) had a few mods
1999 Colt 2.8TDi DC (Now) Now with Stofpad bashplate...(Motor she's in.. Let the other work carry on)
Interesting indeed, but of course there is an alternative to the metal geysers. Have a squiz here
I don't have one myself (mine has not blown up yet), but I have heard many good things.
2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo (WG) 4.7L V8 - Oh the joy
<a href="http://www.fuelly.com/driver/mfour/grand-cherokee" target="_blank"><img src="https://badges.fuelly.com/images/smallsig-metric/118642.png" width="135" height="50" alt="Fuelly" title="Share and compare MPG at Fuelly" border="0" style="border:solid #ccc 1px;padding:4px;background:#fff;"/></a>
Some have the anode inserted from the top. Its basically a long steel pipe .The idea is for the anode to rust instead of the HWC.
But they dont tell you this when they install it. Ok you might get an exception here and there.
Last edited by OFFROAD ADDICT; 2012/05/05 at 10:44 AM.
ORA
-------------------------
Ian
Eggie.
"You’re 18. Take that spoon out of your nose, take the needle out of your arm, take the beer out of your mouth, and go vote, you know what I mean? Vote. Register and vote like a beast.."
- Frank Zappa
polycop cannot be used on the hot water side but the new white flexable pipe is fine as it has a aluminium sleeve inside.
"We have enslaved the rest of the animal creation, and have treated our distant cousins in fur and feathers so badly that beyond doubt, if they were able to formulate a religion, they would depict the Devil in human form." William Ralph Inge
"I don't believe in the concept of hell, but if I did, I would believe it to be full of the souls of people who were cruel to animals." Gary Larson
“The world is changed by people crazy enough to believe they can”
Bookmarks