2012 Wrangler 3.6 Can't cross deep water?

[Rafa4x4]

I was probably one of the first to get the new Pentastar delivered during first week Jan. Have always wanted a Jeep Wrangler due to its capabilities, and this engine is just awesome!

Took it for a bit of offroading at Groenkloof, and after crossing the mud part at the beggining of the trail (about 60cm depth), the car tried to go off, just how it feels when you are running out of petrol, like a drowning effect. Lots of steam coming out of the front. Revved it a bit, and after 1 minute the engine felt stable again.

A couple of weeks ago went to a 4x4 experience in Krugersdorp, thanks to Grand Central Motors. The trail has lots of fun, and includes river crossing. There is a part you drive against the current, and the depth is probably 30-40cm. There is also a deeper part (about 60 - 70cm depth) and Grand Central Motors had a demo 3.6 wrangler, exactly like mine, doing the obstacles demonstration. To the surprise off all the invited customers and Grand Central Motors - Jeep staff that were present, the demo model had the same effect my car had at Groenkloof, it even turned off completely. Their driver had to wait for 3 minutes when he managed to start it again, took it out of the water, and revved it till it stabilized. What a coincidence! The driver and Jeep staff gave the excuse that the Hill descent control was on, even when Jannie (the guide) had clearly said (on the radio) that this feature needs to be off before crossing rivers.

It was my turn next, and I was excited to go through all the obstacles, but I already had my doubts about the last one, the deep part of the river. When I got to the obstacle, the guide over the radio said "Remember to turn the Hill decent control off", which I clearly did. Went down into the river, cautiously, when I had the whole car in the water, made sure that I kept constant speed and revs, managed to get out and just before climbing the exit, the engine started drowing again, with lots of steam. Revved it for a minute, and it stabilized. I parked my car, and the guide and Jeep staff asked me what engine am I driving, and if I had the Hill descent control on. I said that it was clear and obvious that I didnt have it on, and that this should not be just a coincidence. There were 6 extra wranglers present, all with 3.8 engines, and none of them had problems crossing the obstacle. What can you conclude out of this?

I have asked Grand Central Motors to give me an answer about this, to which they said that they have requested Jeep South Africa to investigate. It has been almost two weeks now, and I don't have an answer yet.

To all 3.6 owners in the forum, would be good to hear if you have experienced something similar.

If a Jeep South Africa staff member is also reading this, please, I will appreciate an answer - solution.

Thanks.

[gunhog]

Rafa I would hound them for an awnser.... have you checked the USA forums a similar problem?

Please keep us updated I am sure the Aged Punk will be on it like a banshee tommorow after his beauty sleep... he is getting close to be classified as a geriatric.

[Apocalypse]

beauty sleep?

I feel like a homeless person slept in my mouth and left his blanket behind...

remind me to chat to you about the geriatric comment sometime...

I did a quick search, can't find any other complaints, and I have yet to take mine through anything deep...

The 2012 Wrangler is rated for a 30" wading depth which is 750mm so there should have been no difficulty...

What vehicle? 2 door/4 door / manual/auto/Sahara/Rubicon?

what gear were you in?

I can't imagine why anyone would bother with the hill descent control at all, never mind in water? don't actually understand why jeep even equips their vehicles with it.

Steam - any petrol motor with cats is going to send up some steam when water hits them!!!

had a look under mine, at those depths there is nothing too critical in the way of electronics for the engine around.

possibly the sudden cooling of the cats makes the computer want to have a little tantrum on it's emissions story?

[markvdm]

I might be wrong, but when I looked at the 3.6 motor it looked like the alternator was a lot lower than on the 3.8. Could have an effect?

[Omar Brännström]

Hi

I could not resist to post it on a US forum, maybe some have some clue there

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/201...ml#post2066352

[Rafa4x4]

Guys, thanks for the comments.

Apocalypse, please take yours river crossing soon!

Mine is a Sahara unlimited - 4 door, Auto.
I was using D1 gear in low range.

Your comment about the sudden cooling of the cats could actually make sense, and Jannie from Protea Adventures also said something similar.

But as Grand Central Motors said, they will come back ASAP (?)

Please 3.6 owners, post your comments!!!! Wranglers are not just to drive around Sandton! There must be over a 100 of these in South African streets already!

[Apocalypse]

Well, I'll give it a go as soon as it get wet around here!

Could also be a fuel pump plug or something.

I will say, the only day I ever stalled my crd was in 4L 1st in sand. Which is much like deep water in some ways..

And playing at honingklip the other day,Learning the issues, 1st gear low was useless in boggy stuff.

Bearing in mind it's the rubi 4:1 t/case, but It's not happy in sand in that ratio at all. It's a crawling / descent gear.

Did you try the obstacles in plain old drive?

[Fluffy]

I am feeling better and better. I got a Rubi with an American truck engine, not a platkar witha Fiat/Alfa engine, that actually knows how to swim.

[Apocalypse]

Apparently those 3.8 didn't think to much of water either Keith!

[Fluffy]

Apparently those 3.8 didn't think to much of water either Keith!

Well according to the initial post all the Pentas had a problem but none of the real Rubi's did

Your argument doesn't hold water, excuse the pun, the old 3.8 donkeys also have CATS.

[Rafa4x4]

Thanks for posting in a US Forum.

I think all Export Wranglers for out of North America´s market are assembled in Mexico and not in the US. So they might not have the same situation(?) This might only affect the right side driven vehicles (?)
I dont know, maybe we could try a UK forum (?)

What do you say Jeep South Africa?

[Eugenee07]

Here is a pic of Gking's 3.6 Penta at Dewildt. I'm not sure exactly the dept that we went through but the water mark was definitely just below the doors at one stage. He newer had a problem.

[Apocalypse]

Thanks for posting in a US Forum.
I think all Export Wranglers for out of North America´s market are assembled in Mexico and not in the US. So they might not have the same situation(?) This might only affect the right side driven vehicles (?)
I dont know, maybe we could try a UK forum (?)
What do you say Jeep South Africa?

our Wranglers are assembled by zer Austrians....

[Apocalypse]

Here is a pic of Gking's 3.6 Penta at Dewildt. I'm not sure exactly the dept that we went through but the water mark was definitely just below the doors at one stage. He newer had a problem.

the CRD was certainly fine for deep water....


I suspect that the problem was the use of first gear in low range/auto... impossible to say until I've had a go, but all autos do the same with that kind of reduction. if your rpm is high and you suddenly lift off it kills the motor.

both vehicles were auto I assume, were both driven through in Low Range first gear?

[GKing]

Hi I also have a 3.6 penta (rubi 4door) and i have taken it on about 4 outings (all with water). the deepest water i took it in was about 700 mm deep and i did not have any issue. what i can comment on is the hill decent con. and yes i agree with Apo it is useless and it seems (i am not 100% sure, just a observation) that when in use with 1 gear low it causes torque con slip

But with water ....... no problems

Ps. i also noted that there was alot of steam (i think maybe a bit more than the 3.8 did)

[Apocalypse]

the hill descent control was originally a Land Rover thing - when they bought out the freelander which lacked a Low Range, they installed it so that on a big descent it 'replaced' engine braking.
ahem, okay, it was trying to keep the Freelander a bit more Land Rover hardcore.
but since then it's appeared on all vehicles and it's really not needed at all. there is a brake pedal!!!
on the Auto Wranglers, if you engage it it keeps you to 7km/h or so in drive, select 4th its 6km/h , and on down to 1.5km/h if you have first selected.
but if you press the brake or accelerator it over rides it anyway.
GK, did you do the water obstacles in Low Range Drive or use a lower gear?


Steam - again, the cat runs at about 700degrees or so, the casing is cooler but still in the "ouch thats really hot I seem to have lost the skin of my hand" range.

probably 2 to 300 degrees I'd think. and the pipe which passes under the motor is not much cooler. add water, you are going to see some steam...

[GKing]

Hi Alex

I have done it locked into 1st gear and in drive, even reverse (all low range) and still there was no issue in water. stupid question ..... i only use 95 unleded petrol never 93, could this(93) maybe caues the cat 2 react differently when cooled down


Cheers
G

[rickJK]

Yeah also no problems from mine, have been in deeper water with the CRD (deeper than this video), no steam, no engine trouble, just NEVER change gears when submerged with a manual.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhnHi...HNbWcK_xAcpbSI

[WalterK]

No problem with my 3.8, not even a little steam.
It could that be the original bumpers helped me to float across.

[tiger_sa]

Not to be killed here but ain't you sepouse to do water crossing in 2 nd low??