4M40 radiator hoses very hard.





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  1. #1

    Default 4M40 radiator hoses very hard.

    Greetings,

    I have recently replaced my cylinder head with an AMC unit on my 4m40 Rodeo.I drove from JHB to the Waterburg over the weekend(300km).When I got there I opened bonnet to inspect radiator header tank.Level was slightly above the line(20mm) and no bubbles.It was cooling fine and seemed normal,apart from radiator hoses being very hard.

    Upon returning to JHB yesterdayI noticed that the header tank was nearly full(no bubbles).This morning when I checked it cold,the water in header tank had not pulled back into radiator.I blew it back into radiator from header tank.There was no water loss.Also,the radiator hoses were rock hard.I am using a 1.1 bar cap.Is it normal for the hoses to be very hard?I do realise it is a pressurised system,but these really felt hard.

    When I torqued the head down,I went 50 nm in sequence and then 90 + 90 deg.I did not first torque it down 100nm to 'load' the gasket and then loosen bolts and then go 50 nm + 90 + 90 deg.

    I am starting to wonder whether or not my head gasket is sealing properly or if there is some blow by into the water jackets??I did have boost on turbo increased from .5 bar to 1 bar.Maybe this is the cause?

    Also,when i started the vehicle this morning,the idle was higher than normal with more diesel knock than normal(bearing in mind that the pump was also fiddled with by people who did dyno and increase turbo boost).She is also smoking like a steam loco.

    During normal town driving my header tank level remains normal.The long haul back from Waterberg under load pushed the level very high but not overflowing.

    Any comments or advise on a way forward would be much appreciated!

    Best regards,
    TAM.
    2003 Mitsubishi Rodeo 2.8tdi 4x4/Nudge-M Bashbar/9000lb come-up winch/Nat-lunar dual battery system/Snowmaster 45L freezer/Bridgestone AT.

    2004 Mitsubishi Pajero 3.2 DiD GLS LWB/Nat-Lunar dual battery system/45L Snowmaster.

  2. #2
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    Default

    I would take it to the closest Silverton radiators and have them look at it. Used to use Silverton a lot when we lived in Cape Town and always had good service..

    Just my 2c
    IFS is like a swambo, soft, sexy and expensive!

    Apparently I need to make the airplane noises like mommy does when I try to spoon feed you the info..

  3. #3

    Default

    a warning (also given to me by diesel mech) by fiddling with turbo and injector pump you will raise the temps of your engine and egg, this will cause you to loose the AMC head you have fitted.
    how many cores do (did your van have as standard) you have in your radiator, the old smaller radiator (pre face lift) used pressure caps of 0.9 bar and post face lift use 1.1 bar caps.

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pblaauw View Post
    I would take it to the closest Silverton radiators and have them look at it. Used to use Silverton a lot when we lived in Cape Town and always had good service..

    Just my 2c
    There is a Silverton branch in Midrand which is close to me.I will take it to them and see what they have to say.......?
    2003 Mitsubishi Rodeo 2.8tdi 4x4/Nudge-M Bashbar/9000lb come-up winch/Nat-lunar dual battery system/Snowmaster 45L freezer/Bridgestone AT.

    2004 Mitsubishi Pajero 3.2 DiD GLS LWB/Nat-Lunar dual battery system/45L Snowmaster.

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by allan colt 2.8tdi View Post
    a warning (also given to me by diesel mech) by fiddling with turbo and injector pump you will raise the temps of your engine and egg, this will cause you to loose the AMC head you have fitted.
    how many cores do (did your van have as standard) you have in your radiator, the old smaller radiator (pre face lift) used pressure caps of 0.9 bar and post face lift use 1.1 bar caps.
    This worries me somewhat as well....!My Colt was really underpowered according to mechanic(53kw on wheels and .5bar boost on first dyno).After mods,boost 1bar and 71kw on wheels.

    I replaced radiator with a Plexus,not sure id it is 2 or 3 core?Its a 2003 and replaced radiator with one that resembled the original.Seems to be cooling fine,just not sure if gasket is sealing properly
    2003 Mitsubishi Rodeo 2.8tdi 4x4/Nudge-M Bashbar/9000lb come-up winch/Nat-lunar dual battery system/Snowmaster 45L freezer/Bridgestone AT.

    2004 Mitsubishi Pajero 3.2 DiD GLS LWB/Nat-Lunar dual battery system/45L Snowmaster.

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Default post thread

    Well, ancient mariner, it sounds like, from reading your posts, that you are suffering from air locking, in your water jacket, has you should be able to squeeze both the top and bottom hoses, with either the engine on or off, once it has got to running temp, question, you have made no mention of the heater system, either working normal or not at all, IE, hot or cold, so, this is where you could have the air lock and no movement of the water system, in the heater side of the system, just a thought and did you do a test, on the new thermostat, before you fitted it, to check that it was fully opening or not, just a couple of things to check out, hope you find the fault real soon, seeing it has caused you some real problems and expence.

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scorpion 42 View Post
    Well, ancient mariner, it sounds like, from reading your posts, that you are suffering from air locking, in your water jacket, has you should be able to squeeze both the top and bottom hoses, with either the engine on or off, once it has got to running temp, question, you have made no mention of the heater system, either working normal or not at all, IE, hot or cold, so, this is where you could have the air lock and no movement of the water system, in the heater side of the system, just a thought and did you do a test, on the new thermostat, before you fitted it, to check that it was fully opening or not, just a couple of things to check out, hope you find the fault real soon, seeing it has caused you some real problems and expence.
    Thanks for reply Scorpion!I took vehicle to Silverton radiators in Midrand yesterday and person there informed me that it is normal for hoses to be hard as they are.Once pressure exceeds 1,1 bar,it is released into header tank.As long as there is no air in the system and radiator remains full to top and header tank is returning to original level when cold,all is good.

    I did test the new thermostat against the old one and it opened fully,as opposed to the old one only opening a few mm.

    Also,tested heater for first time since repair and it is working fine.Are you telling me that once your engine is hot that you can squeeze the radiator hoses together?

    Yes this really is turning into an expensive epic,but I will get to the bottom of the problem.P.S:What are you doing in the UK?
    Last edited by The Ancient Mariner; 2012/02/16 at 07:12 AM.
    2003 Mitsubishi Rodeo 2.8tdi 4x4/Nudge-M Bashbar/9000lb come-up winch/Nat-lunar dual battery system/Snowmaster 45L freezer/Bridgestone AT.

    2004 Mitsubishi Pajero 3.2 DiD GLS LWB/Nat-Lunar dual battery system/45L Snowmaster.

  8. #8
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    Default

    Nice to know there's a good Silverton Radiators close by..
    IFS is like a swambo, soft, sexy and expensive!

    Apparently I need to make the airplane noises like mommy does when I try to spoon feed you the info..

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pblaauw View Post
    Nice to know there's a good Silverton Radiators close by..

    Pblaauw,they are in THE POND(listed on Garmin) shopping centre just down from the old Snake Park(TRUTH nightclub).Chap was helpfull and informative.Cheers.
    2003 Mitsubishi Rodeo 2.8tdi 4x4/Nudge-M Bashbar/9000lb come-up winch/Nat-lunar dual battery system/Snowmaster 45L freezer/Bridgestone AT.

    2004 Mitsubishi Pajero 3.2 DiD GLS LWB/Nat-Lunar dual battery system/45L Snowmaster.

  10. #10
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ancient Mariner View Post
    I did have boost on turbo increased from .5 bar to 1 bar.Maybe this is the cause?

    Also,when i started the vehicle this morning,the idle was higher than normal with more diesel knock than normal(bearing in mind that the pump was also fiddled with by people who did dyno and increase turbo boost).She is also smoking like a steam loco.

    TAM,

    I would recommend that you get the above items restored to standard conditions, before you destroy that shiny new AMC head again. Your vehicle should not smoke like a steam loco. It sounds like severe over-fuelling which will result in catastrofic EGT's.

    I think most Mitsu head problems are the result of such fiddling with the diesel pump by incompetent "experts".

    Just my 2c.
    - Nothing comes at a higher price than that which is free.

  11. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Shirt View Post
    TAM,

    I would recommend that you get the above items restored to standard conditions, before you destroy that shiny new AMC head again. Your vehicle should not smoke like a steam loco. It sounds like severe over-fuelling which will result in catastrofic EGT's.

    I think most Mitsu head problems are the result of such fiddling with the diesel pump by incompetent "experts".

    Just my 2c.
    Hi Blueshirt,thanks for reply.I fully agree with your recommendation.This is why I am really driving lightfooted until I have had her seen to by experts.I believe that the excessive smoking is the result of timing gear on pump being out by one tooth and it is injecting too soon.I am sending vehicle in on Monday to 'Randburg Diesel' to let them do the necessary work to pump,injectors,turbo etc.
    2003 Mitsubishi Rodeo 2.8tdi 4x4/Nudge-M Bashbar/9000lb come-up winch/Nat-lunar dual battery system/Snowmaster 45L freezer/Bridgestone AT.

    2004 Mitsubishi Pajero 3.2 DiD GLS LWB/Nat-Lunar dual battery system/45L Snowmaster.

  12. #12
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    Default Radiator

    Hi there do you still have the copper ratiator in there.As the later models have now come out with the aluminium radiators which cool down much faster than the copper ones.

  13. #13
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    Default

    [QUOTE=The Ancient Mariner;1049969]Greetings,



    I am starting to wonder whether or not my head gasket is sealing properly or if there is some blow by into the water jackets??I did have boost on turbo increased from .5 bar to 1 bar.Maybe this is the cause?

    I have the same motor in my Pajero and the manual gives standard boost as .9bar. Why is there a difference?

  14. #14
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    Hi Ancient Mariner,
    I have expierienced these problems myself and in my opinion your head gasket is leaking into the water jacket this results in presurising the cooling system and blowing water back into the header, by the same token cooling down will not cause sufficient vacuum to draw that water back. the smoke is due to water in the bores.
    I wound up having to skim the head to match the block and replacing the head gasket using a top of the range gasket which I coated with copper spray prior to installation, torque down to spec as you've mentioned. Re torquoing depends on whether you have stretch bolts or not.

  15. #15

    Default

    water in the cylinder will cause white smoke as the diesel will not get burnt (currently fixing this very problem) I would not change the settings from original on these motors or your egt goes high and you will say bye bye to your head.

  16. #16
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ancient Mariner View Post
    Greetings,
    I have recently replaced my cylinder head with an AMC unit on my 4m40 Rodeo.I drove from JHB to the Waterburg over the weekend(300km).When I got there I opened bonnet to inspect radiator header tank.Level was slightly above the line(20mm) and no bubbles.It was cooling fine and seemed normal,apart from radiator hoses being very hard.
    Upon returning to JHB yesterdayI noticed that the header tank was nearly full(no bubbles).This morning when I checked it cold,the water in header tank had not pulled back into radiator.I blew it back into radiator from header tank.There was no water loss.Also,the radiator hoses were rock hard.I am using a 1.1 bar cap.Is it normal for the hoses to be very hard?I do realise it is a pressurised system,but these really felt hard.
    When I torqued the head down,I went 50 nm in sequence and then 90 + 90 deg.I did not first torque it down 100nm to 'load' the gasket and then loosen bolts and then go 50 nm + 90 + 90 deg.
    I am starting to wonder whether or not my head gasket is sealing properly or if there is some blow by into the water jackets??I did have boost on turbo increased from .5 bar to 1 bar.Maybe this is the cause?
    Also,when i started the vehicle this morning,the idle was higher than normal with more diesel knock than normal(bearing in mind that the pump was also fiddled with by people who did dyno and increase turbo boost).She is also smoking like a steam loco.
    During normal town driving my header tank level remains normal.The long haul back from Waterberg under load pushed the level very high but not overflowing.
    Any comments or advise on a way forward would be much appreciated!
    Best regards,
    TAM.
    Jy moet kyk ,of daar nie nog lug in die verkoelerstelsel is nie,gewoontlik is daar lug in die sisteem en dan stoom die water ,dit is ook ernstig want stoom keur dat die wande van die engin water kry wat die hitte moet weg lei voorentoe deur die koeler, die koeler pyp kan self bars

  17. #17

    Default

    The vehicle is not losing any water,so I dont believe that the black smoke is being caused by water in the combustion chambers.The radiator is of the aluminium(Plexus aftermarket) variety and the van is cooling fine.
    Cheers for now.
    2003 Mitsubishi Rodeo 2.8tdi 4x4/Nudge-M Bashbar/9000lb come-up winch/Nat-lunar dual battery system/Snowmaster 45L freezer/Bridgestone AT.

    2004 Mitsubishi Pajero 3.2 DiD GLS LWB/Nat-Lunar dual battery system/45L Snowmaster.

  18. #18
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    Default

    Excessive black smoke is caused by unburnt diesel, usually as a result of overfuelling because some "expert" fiddled with the diesel pump timing to try and extract a few more horses.
    - Nothing comes at a higher price than that which is free.

  19. #19

    Default

    hey Blueshirt,I could no longer handle all the smoke(as well as being so careful with throttle and chance of cracking new head),took vehicle in to Randburg diesel yesterday to check timing as well as recallibrate pump and nozzles.Hope I will receive a new vehicle back from them and can then start planning some trips!

    Best regards,
    TAM
    2003 Mitsubishi Rodeo 2.8tdi 4x4/Nudge-M Bashbar/9000lb come-up winch/Nat-lunar dual battery system/Snowmaster 45L freezer/Bridgestone AT.

    2004 Mitsubishi Pajero 3.2 DiD GLS LWB/Nat-Lunar dual battery system/45L Snowmaster.

  20. #20
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    TAM, good for you, please let us know how the vehicle performs after the fix.
    - Nothing comes at a higher price than that which is free.

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