Is Jeep Grand Cherokee good starter 4x4 ?

[KobusM]

A while back , on a different thread, a fellow Jeeper was reprimanded for blaming a petrol pump attendant for not filling the radiator properly and causing overheating damage. Japspeed, you and you alone should take responsibility for buying a lemon. Dont blame the car. It cannot maintain itself. The previous owner probably never did and the kilometers on it not true. I am really sorry for your bad experience, but it is not the norm.
Still one of the best buys for the money out there.8)

[0l1v3r]

@japspeed - My experience is quite different from yours. I (ignorantly) took a change on my WJ that was not serviced properly. I spent about R15k to get all the servicing up to date and since then have had only one electrical gremlin that has bugged me a bit and seems to have been poor electrical contacts in the end. I guess it is just luck of the draw sometimes ...

[PenthouseNinja]

I dunno, I have to disagree as well hey.

Firstly, I don't think I've spoken to a single WJ owner that hasn't had electrical/sensor issues. There are a lot of things going on in that vehicle and he'll never have peace of mind if he wants to take it deep into the bush and definitely not into Africa. So it would be limited to a trail runner, and then he has to spend a heck of a lot of money on it to get it to "toy" status.

I'm in pretty much the same boat, been thinking about selling my Isuzu and replace it with a town runner + designated Toy 4x4. I keep finding myself looking at the WJ's as I really want to start with a V8 and its a really good looking vehicle. But man, I dunno if I could trust it.

Secondly, a full service (all oils, filters, etc) as well as maybe some suspension bushes thrown in can EASILY get over R10k without even trying. I think Olivers one was pushing R16k if I can recall. Putting that in perspective, my Isuzu cost R3k to fix the CV joints AND propshaft (only because or poor maintenance from the previous owner) and since then have spent only R2000 on services and that has been 3 of them. I also get 11km/l so you can't really compare them cost wise.

In my opinion if its a toy you want then just get a wrangler, no questions asked. The ONLY reason I haven't got my Wrangler already is because of packing space, I have a gf and a kid and probably a couple more in the fairly near future so a TJ just doesn't meet my requirements and the JK unlimited is more than I can afford right now.

By far the cheapest and easiest toy 4x4 to work with is the SFA hilux, but then you have to live with the basic interior and harsh ride quality.

All I can say is good luck and you're not alone.

[PenthouseNinja]

Haha, Oliver beat me to it.

[andrewbuch]

We have had a 2004 V8 overland black pearl since 2005, got it with 900Km's on the clock.. In the first 24K Km's the exhaust was replaced twice, the Injectors replaced twice, the front diff had to have its oil seals replaced, ABS failure, and a few other things (most covered by warranty).. now the car is on 58K Km's and in the last year we have replaced Engine mounts (R5.5k) Got the dealer to replace all fluids (R11K) and they told us the shocks need to be replaced. Have had the right front CV rebuilt, and the car is going in this week to have the Front diff rebuilt, all the front suspension bushes are all worn out.. Car has done Groenkloof twice & Dewidlt once (in the last year) and before that just used for long distance holiday tar driving.

But the few times I have taken it off road, its such an awesome vehicle.. even with HP Sport tires it still managed to impress..

Another thing is the resale value, Bought it for about R400K and when it was on 24K km's my dad wanted to get rid of it & the dealer offered him R200k in 2007..

[ThysleRoux]

May I respectfully disagree, and I love Jeeps !
Have had 3 Jeeps - 2 XJ 4.0's - excellent and unstoppable. Basic tech, last forever, excellent offroad.
My 05 WJ Laredo GC V8 -ah, there's a story. Bought it used with 98000km's on it, in two months, cost me R25000 in repairs that never repaired the thing, and I did most of the work myself.
The interior was immaculate, took a quick test drive when I bought it, sucked on the little old lady previous owner bull from the dealer, and bought it.
Replaced front discs, pads,(I think the discs were R2000 each about R2k for BOTH) removed 2 blocked cats, bought the "correct" fluids from the dealer (R5000 for ATF, tfr case fluid, diff fluid and friction modifier for both diffs as fluids had never been changed - yup, thats what you have to pay for Mopar fluids BS - stealers charge under R2000 for the fluids listed).
Driveline vibration better than a Thai massage - both front and rear balanced, did nothing. Cardan slip joint replaced, same story.[/COLOR]
Front diff overhauled to try and stop the whine - carrier bearings, pinion and crush sleeve, all new seals: result: worse oil leak from behind front unit hub.
This was the one thing that Jeep did themselves. Went back 3 times - eventually told me I need a new crown wheel and pinion - would have had to have sold my first born for muti to pay for that.
Oh yes - you can't buy wheel bearings seperately - had
to replace the whole front R/H hub - which I had already done - in the region of R3k for one.
Then discovered all suspension bushes were shot, and I mean all. Could move control arms up and down by hand.
I could carry on and on, but I think you get the general drift, Yes Quadradrive offroad is awesome, the power is great, but every day the car would thrill me with a new noise/vibration/graunching/MIL light on, (replaced O2 sensors as well).
Anyway, because I loved the car I carried on pouring money into it until SWAMBO threatened to burn it, with me strapped to the overheating radiator.
Now gone - Jeep, not SWAMBO. Luckily with new CPA, dealer took it back and refunded me. But not the R25 I spent on it.
So - if you want a Grand - please think twice.They are complex, parts are insanely expensive, dealers are clueless, and it will give you 4-5 km/l if you drive like Stephen Hawking.
Rather look at an XJ 4.0l.
Cheers,
Paul

Paul, you obviously had a bad experience and are now exaggerating a little (see my comments in red). Parts are no more expensive than any other SUV - even at the dealers. Parts are readily available and most service parts can be obtained from Midas/Autozone (diff and transfer case lube excluded)

That the stealers are clueless, I will agree, though.

[jelo]

I have a couple I'm looking at, basically 2001-2005.
Any specific things check be prepared for on high mileage ? (133000-220000)

Don't do it unless you have money to burn. Yes, the WJ GC looks good on paper, but consider the following:

- if you don't get the Overland, you must buy body and under-body protection
- if you want to do anything more than a mild trail, you HAVE to upgrade the suspension: the stock control arms and suspension bushes are truly pathetic
- you'll have to upgrade the front prop-shaft to a double cardan UJ prop
- the 4.7 V8 is a weak piece of sponge cheese: a Chev LS1 is a better engine
- the auto gearbox is seriously expensive to repair and also is very finicky when it comes to heat and oil
- the trutracks in the axles also want nice expensive oil

I would say rather buy an old Wrangler, less to spend in the long run.

[jelo]

@Thys: having spent R50k on my WJ last year, and with a quote pending for a hole in the block, I must agree with Paul: run away, run far.

@Penthouseninja: exactly! Massive sensor and electrical issues with OBD errors all over the place.

I say again: buy a good used Wrangler and be done.

OR BUY AN OLD LANDY!

[ChrisTarby]

I must disagree with Jelo on a few issues.

The V8 is a solid piece of engineering that regularly runs over 500, 000km's before requiring overhauls. As far as the cooling issues go with it, it needs to be properly bled or else you shall have a problem. Mine has never overheated.

The gearbox is also a stout old thing that does service in the Chrysler Voyager, Dodge trucks and various others that has also been around for many years and proven itself over and over again - the only differences in them are the electronic controls and valves, but otherwise the gearbox is bullet proof - it does like decent lubricants though, and if a previous owner fudged on that score you will pay for a rebuild. Usually the biggest problem with these boxes are one of the three main sensors packing up, and they are less than a grand each from the agents.

Yes, mine has a myriad of silly problems, but at over three hundred thousand k's, she is still in wonderful condition. I have returned fuel consumption figures of less than 11/100km on a trip that included some serious off road work too, so the V8 can return good consumption.

Offroad, not much can stop her, and I disagree with it needing a lift and underbody protection - ask Kobus what he's done in his stock GC.

Check it out before you buy, and make sure you get a decent warranty, but they are great vehicles if it is not a lemon, and all makes have lemons, so check it out thoroughly before hand, as you would do before buying any second hand car.

[Rolf]

@Thys: having spent R50k on my WJ last year, and with a quote pending for a hole in the block, I must agree with Paul: run away, run far.

@Penthouseninja: exactly! Massive sensor and electrical issues with OBD errors all over the place.

I say again: buy a good used Wrangler and be done.

OR BUY AN OLD LANDY!

That is what I said. 8)

[jelo]

Ja Chris, as with all vehicles, experiences will be different.

ALL THINGS BEING PERFECT, the GC is a nice vehicle.

I love ours, but this specific vehicle is not a good example for some reason.

It was used by Jeep SA as a demo for several years, maybe that's why it has failures that are out of sync with the mileage.

It had a full AA test prior to taking ownership. It was bought from a dealer that used it as a dealer principle runabout.

Full service history, full traceable ownership history.

I'll say again: good on paper, but unless you a) get a good one by luck and b) have a good warranty, then buyer beware!

Anybody have a rebuilt short block for me? Seems like ours dropped a con-rod. (They do that as well, quite often apparently)

[XJ Junkie]

@XJ Junkie - Hi, I'm looking to spend somewhere between 80k and 120k, depending on the deal.

For a play vehicle, the next best thing to a 4.0 Wrangler (TJ) is a 4.0 Cherokee (XJ). Like the TJ, they are highly modifiable, bulletproof & highly capable. It also has a better power-to-weight ratio than the 4.0 Grand Cherokee.

You'd find the very best XJ for R80k, with much less mileage than a WJ for the same money. Then spend another R20k to do some very good mods like mud tyres & a decent lift.

But you'd need to be patient because they are getting rather scarce now.

[XJ Junkie]

Seems like ours dropped a con-rod. (They do that as well, quite often apparently)

I've heard the same

[PenthouseNinja]

Look, its true, with any brand your chance of getting a lemon is higher. The main thing to consider though is
1) The Jeep stealers really kill you on services.
2) Second hand Jeeps are cheap, you get a lot of 4x4 for your money's worth. People who buy R50-100k vehicles are not wanting to spend heaven and earth on keeping it running.

SO, the result is that Jeep owners are far more likely to go elsewhere for their services and maintenance. Now this is fine if you go to a place that knows Jeep, but more often than not it isn't, and the local mechanics don't know all the do's and don't with regards to additives and oils etc and even MORE so about the electronics.

What I am getting at is that the chance of getting a Jeep where corners were cut (either knowingly or unknowingly to the owner) is far higher than with say a Toyota, Ford, Isuzu. This leads to a far better chance of buying a lemon.

Just something else to consider.

[jelo]

For a play vehicle, the next best thing to a 4.0 Wrangler (TJ) is a 4.0 Cherokee (XJ). Like the TJ, they are highly modifiable, bulletproof & highly capable. It also has a better power-to-weight ratio than the 4.0 Grand Cherokee.

You'd find the very best XJ for R80k, with much less mileage than a WJ for the same money. Then spend another R20k to do some very good mods like mud tyres & a decent lift.

But you'd need to be patient because they are getting rather scarce now.

Yes, buy a nice cheap square box XJ and throw the money into mods. They have a specific style and charm of their own, like a Defender or Range Rover.

[PenthouseNinja]

For a play vehicle, the next best thing to a 4.0 Wrangler (TJ) is a 4.0 Cherokee (XJ). Like the TJ, they are highly modifiable, bulletproof & highly capable. It also has a better power-to-weight ratio than the 4.0 Grand Cherokee.

You'd find the very best XJ for R80k, with much less mileage than a WJ for the same money. Then spend another R20k to do some very good mods like mud tyres & a decent lift.

But you'd need to be patient because they are getting rather scarce now.

No kidding, they are getting properly scarce at the moment. I am looking at having to put on on the back of a train or truck and have it sent down from KZN in order to get a decent one. They are crazy popular. Might have something to do with all your PR there Neil (and by PR I just mean the pics you put up )

[XJ Junkie]

No kidding, they are getting properly scarce at the moment. I am looking at having to put on on the back of a train or truck and have it sent down from KZN in order to get a decent one. They are crazy popular. Might have something to do with all your PR there Neil (and by PR I just mean the pics you put up )

Plus I killed one , so there is one less to enter the market

[XJ Junkie]

@PHN......some more PR:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dg0vG...YTLRgA&lf=plcp

[PenthouseNinja]

@PHN......some more PR:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dg0vG...YTLRgA&lf=plcp

I can't tell you how many time I've replayed the first 8 seconds of this video.

Back to the point though, as far as toys go the only thing the WJ has over the XJ is rear articulation and the fact that you can buy JK rubicon axles ready made to bolt straight onto the WJ. These are the only things still lurking in the back of my head.

[XJ Junkie]

I can't tell you how many time I've replayed the first 8 seconds of this video.
Back to the point though, as far as toys go the only thing the WJ has over the XJ is rear articulation and the fact that you can buy JK rubicon axles ready made to bolt straight onto the WJ. These are the only things still lurking in the back of my head.

I'm not sure about this. The lift kits generally have a rotating shackles that allows the leaf to move forward. I'll never bother with a coil conversion.

Rubicon axles are great but aren't really needed to have a capable machine