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Thread: Prolong

  1. #1
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    Default Prolong

    Whitters, jy het nou 'n saak aangeraak... Wat dink julle van Prolong?
    Jeepless henlo

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    Quote Originally Posted by henlo View Post
    Whitters, jy het nou 'n saak aangeraak... Wat dink julle van Prolong?

    ouch eina. dit is nie baie goed nie. ek weet nie of jy dit nog kry nie maar slick50 is iets wat beproef is. ek het 580 000 op my audi 500 gekry voor ek hom weg gegee het. en die engine was nog in a baie goie toestand, die res van die kar was nie so hot nie ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rud-e View Post
    ouch eina. dit is nie baie goed nie. ek weet nie of jy dit nog kry nie maar slick50 is iets wat beproef is. ek het 580 000 op my audi 500 gekry voor ek hom weg gegee het. en die engine was nog in a baie goie toestand, die res van die kar was nie so hot nie ;-)

    Wat ek egter nie verstaan nie, is Prolong is al vir 7 jaar in die land & hulle het nou weer nuwe produkte bygekry... As dit nie gewerk het nie, sou hulle deure nie al toe gewees het nie?
    Jeepless henlo

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    Personally, I've had good results from using Prolong. But it's "uncool" so I generally keep quiet about it.
    * "Wat Spike probeer sê in sy min woorde" -Die Skim "
    .................................................. .....

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    Quote Originally Posted by henlo View Post
    Wat ek egter nie verstaan nie, is Prolong is al vir 7 jaar in die land & hulle het nou weer nuwe produkte bygekry... As dit nie gewerk het nie, sou hulle deure nie al toe gewees het nie?
    maar so is weight watchers, en hulle duere is nie toe nie. almal soek maar hulle poliesie mannetjie

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike View Post
    Personally, I've had good results from using Prolong. But it's "uncool" so I generally keep quiet about it.
    yeah I agree it ain't bad but the topic is the same as acetone very uncool, but i love stirring a bit

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    acetone
    Mmmm......I've mixed a few brews in my time. Toluolene, nitromethane etc. Paid the price
    * "Wat Spike probeer sê in sy min woorde" -Die Skim "
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    I used prolong in my colt before we rebuilt the engine, but I can't say whether it damaged anything or it prolonged the engine life before it died.

    But I've always thought the following, if Prolong is such a good product, why is it not getting endorsed by other companies ? Why isn't Toyota promoting it ? Why don't one of the big oil companies buy them out ?

    Since rebuild I have not used Prolong again, but for no other reason than thinking a newly redone engine should not require something like Prolong.
    08' Diablo Black Kawasaki Versys
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    Work hard, play harder. --Bob

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike View Post
    Mmmm......I've mixed a few brews in my time. Toluolene, nitromethane etc. Paid the price
    Cant remember the name of the stuff I bought a while ago. But its added to a full tank of fuel and "Cleans the Injectors". Whilst in the parking lot and pouring it into my tank two guys walked past and one commented to the other that "He may as well have just burned the money he paid for that crap"

    Instead of asking why he thought so I turned nasty and chose to shout and scream like a Cape Flats Junky and told him things about his Mother he never knew. Needless to say they just kept walking . . . . . .

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    i use that stuff from time to time. the wynns injector cleaner. put one in the other day, treats 50L. it also bonds any water molecules to the fuel in a particle small enought to pass through the motor. iv felt a performance increase, especially on my 1.7D corsa. and i have a major vendetta against water as i had some collect in the fuel filter about a year back and it rusts thru the filter, next thing it feels like you are running out of fuel but you gauge says half tank. unless youve got a spare filter behind the seat you have issues.
    1997 Cruiser 1HZ - New Toy
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    There was a chat about that a while back. Apparently it's just parafin or something similar.
    * "Wat Spike probeer sê in sy min woorde" -Die Skim "
    .................................................. .....

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    Thumbs down Prolong

    Load of Shait. marketing scam, bly weg van die goed aff
    D2 V8. Pro Comp MX6 Shocks with Mikem Custom Progressive Coils. Wildcat Headers. 265/75/16 Hankook RT03's. FLI Audio. Kaiser Locker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    I used prolong in my colt before we rebuilt the engine, but I can't say whether it damaged anything or it prolonged the engine life before it died.

    But I've always thought the following, if Prolong is such a good product, why is it not getting endorsed by other companies ? Why isn't Toyota promoting it ? Why don't one of the big oil companies buy them out ?

    Since rebuild I have not used Prolong again, but for no other reason than thinking a newly redone engine should not require something like Prolong.

    Die rede waarom Toyota & die olie maatskapye nie olie-aanvullings bemark nie, is dalk omdat dit nie vir hulle baat nie... Dan gaan Toyota nie meer so baie herstelwerke he om te doen aan enjins nie want die slytasie is blykbaar baie laer...
    Jeepless henlo

  14. #14
    Beans Guest

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    I use UNIGLIDE . Spike that is what i had in my diff on the HEX. Works for me

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    Put some Prolong in a gearbox a few years ago on recommendation by some "expert".
    500km later the box started whining in 5th.
    Drained, flushed the gearbox and added the factory prescribed oil at a cost of R880 for 4l.
    The whining disappeared almost immediately but got such a fright, sold the vehicle soon afterwards.
    Last edited by Damdan; 2007/06/06 at 11:41 AM.

  16. #16
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    I cannot agree anymore in what was said about ‘’snake oil’’ additives, but............................ this kind of talk is also encouraged by the oil majors to divert the spotlight from their own shortcomings!

    To have blind faith in what oil blenders an manufacturers have to say and offer, is not the alfa & omega of lubrication, and after all, what makes them any different to any of the other money makers in the oil business, they are also out to make a fast buck, and will only tell the ignorant public enough, on a need to know basis to justify their own concoctions and theories.

    One can only cast a positive opinion once one has a deeper understanding of lubrication, which now is available in this country through 5 day lubrication course presented by the SA Institute of Tribology.

    For the uninformed, the word Tribology is derived from the Greek word tribos, meaning to slide together, and is the study of friction lubrication and wear.

    Tribology is one of the younger sciences, celebrating its official 40th birthday this year, and was initially started by the research of Dr Philip Bowden at Oxford University in 1932, resulting in his handbook, ‘’Friction, The treatment of solids’’, still serving as the handbook for friction studies at Oxford to day, and generally regarded as the bible of friction studies,

    He was the very person that discovered and discouraged the oil majors from adding chlorine to oil as a friction modifier, because chlorine was only effective in ferrous metals, apart from it’s hygroscopic nature drawing moist from the atmosphere forming hydrochloric acid that changes the TBN ( total base number ) of the oil from a neutral 7 to an acidic 3, removing the lubricity in the oil and valve stem seals and sludge’s the oil resulting in catastrophic engine failures.

    Bowden discovered and built the necessary laboratory equipment to physically measure and quantify friction, and advised the oil majors to use ZDDP ( Zinc Dialcal di thio phosphate) as the effective friction reducing additive in engine lubricating oil, still in use to day.

    Unfortunately with the rapid advancement and development of the modern high performance engine, the effectiveness of ZDDP as a friction modifier is now questionable, as the increased operating temperatures and loading of smaller bearing surfaces has substantially increased the internal operating temperatures causing the ZDDP package to deplete prematurely, causing all sorts of unexpected problems like noisy valve train problems in Audi’s, Golf’s and Mitsubishi V6 Pajero`s.

    Bowden also discovered in 1932 that steel surfaces are not smooth, and consist of peaks known as asperities, and the valleys, that continuously rub, weld and tear, because the hydrocarbon derived base oil, is not polar, and therefore cannot adhere to the peaks to prevent direct contact.

    On the other hand, if you ‘’fatten’’ hydrocarbon oil by adding plant oil derived, long chain fatty acids, the oil will react to the magnetic field of the asperities depositing up to two molecular layers of oil, reducing the rub, weld and tear process, reducing the temperature and wear with the benefit of either increased performance or reduced fuel consumption.

    This process is known as ‘’adsorption’’, known and recognized by the oil majors, and recommended as an effective metal treatment by all triboligists, also manufactured by oil majors, known as a compound oil and effectively used where ZDDP requires additional Extreme Pressure additive.

    The quality of the base oil used to blend motor oils, plays a more important role in the modern engine and requires an in depth study which I will try to shorten and condense.

    The rapidly improving automotive engine and related component’s performance, and new applications, have necessitated considerable advances and developments in lubricant technology.

    Mineral oil fractions with limited additive packages are rarely sufficient as complete lubricants for modern equipment. Fuel economy lubes call for base oils with specific viscosity and viscosity-temperature relationships and additives such as friction modifiers.

    The economic importance of lubricants are often underestimated with about 30% of total energy produced being wasted by friction, and resultant wear causes considerable loss of material. Up to 4.5% of the energy consumed could be conserved by better lubrication. Thus lubricants have become important elements of equipment design.

    Tribology and tribotechnology which are concerned with friction,wear and lubrication have become complicated and specialized fields of science. They are related to chemistry, physics and mechanical engineering.

    Engine lubricating oil is blended from mineral oil base stock, relying primarily on the additive performance in the past where the base oil performance was considered minor.

    The American Petroleum Institute (API) has defined and grouped these base oils to their level of refining and related viscosity index as follows;



    GROUP 1 Mineral base oil, 80 to 120 viscosity index

    GROUP 11 Mineral base oil.

    GROUP 111 Mineral base oil, greater than 120 viscosity index

    GROUP 1V Full synthetic, All Poly Alfa Olifins (PAO)

    GROUP V All base stocks not included in group 1 to 1V



    Kinematic viscosity is the thickness of fluid and its internal resistance to flow, which decreases with an increase in temperature.



    Viscosity index is the arbitrary number used to characterize the change and reaction of this kinematic viscosity of the base oil with changing temperatures. The higher the arbitrary viscosity index, the smaller the effect of temperature will be on the kinematic viscosity .



    Within this group 1 to 3 mineral oil base stock, up to 5 different cuts can be made in the refining process, further defined as follows:



    LVI Low viscosity index

    MVI Medium viscosity index

    HVI High viscosity index

    VHVI Very high viscosity index

    XHVI Extremely high viscosity index



    Finally the (API) system describes these blended engine oils to aid marketers in labeling oils meaningfully, for equipment manufacturers in recommending proper oils, and customers in selecting more precisely the quality level of the oil, for their specific requirements.

    API classification defines the standards of lubricating oil for petrol and diesel engines separately, S for spark ignition and C for compression ignition engines.









    API engine oil classification:



    SA Straight mineral oil & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; & nbsp; &nbs p; CA&n bsp; &n bsp; 1940`s – 1950`s

    SB Inhibited oil only CB &n bsp; 1949

    SC 1964-1967 Models only CC 1961

    SD 1968-1971 ‘’ &n bsp; &n bsp; &n bsp; &n bsp; &n bsp; &n bsp; CD &n bsp; 1955

    SE 1972-1979 ‘’ &n bsp; &n bsp; &n bsp; &n bsp; &n bsp; &n bsp; CD-11 1985

    SF 1980-1988 ‘’ &nbs p; &nbs p; &nbs p; &nbs p; &nbs p; CE &n bsp; &n bsp; 1983

    SG 1989-1993 ‘’ &n bsp; &n bsp; &n bsp; &n bsp; &n bsp; &n bsp; CF &n bsp; 1994

    SH 1994-1996 ‘’ &n bsp; &n bsp; &n bsp; &n bsp; &nbs p; CF-2 1994

    SJ 1997-2001 ‘’ &n bsp; &n bsp; &n bsp; &n bsp; &n bsp; &n bsp; CF-4 1990

    SL 2002-2004 ‘’ &n bsp; &n bsp; &n bsp; &n bsp; &n bsp; &n bsp; CG-4 1994

    SM FROM 2005 CG-4 + 1995

    CI-4 + &nb sp; Cummins CES 20078

    &nbs p; &nbs p; &nbs p; &nbs p; &nbs p; &nbs p; &nbs p; &nbs p; &nbs p; CJ-4 2006 Caterpillar ECF-2/3( 2006/2011)





    The first and least demanding specification being SA in 1940 for petrol engines, and at present the most demanding is the 2005 spec SM, the same applies for CA through to CJ-4 in 2006 for diesel engines.

    Before any oil is awarded an API service qualification, it must satisfy the requirements of a series of API laid down engine performance tests, costing upwards of R 5 m, per new classification.

    More diesel engine manufacturers have their own proprietary engine oil specifications for their latest designs necessitating continual upgrading of the API specification.

    As there is no ‘’bad’’ oil made, consumers should be aware of the API specification on the can, which bears a direct relation to their vehicles requirements, and the price they pay.

    With the rising importance and prominence of synthetic oil in modern high performance equipment, with their superior properties and behavior, that can be tailored to suit their individual application, has now created a resultant minefield and consumers nightmare, regarding their choices and specific needs, aggravated by the ‘’grey’’ definition of the available products.

    To the scientists, engineers, formulators and blenders, the technical definition of synthetic lubricants meant that they were made with synthetic base stocks. The Society of American Engineers (SAE) J357 specification clearly defined these base stocks as being produced by chemical synthesis rather than by extraction or refinement of petroleum. However the SAE dropped this definition, over the controversy concerning very high viscosity index (VHV1) Group 3 mineral base stocks in 1996.

    In spite of this ruling, there was an unspoken rule within the industry that synthetic engine oils were based on Group 1V polyalfaolifin (PAO) base stock, usually blended with some ester to solubilize additives, to aid in seal swell, and enhance lubricity.

    Unfortunately the technical definition for synthetics and assumptions about the use of PAO changed in 1997.

    This, when Castrol made the very daring and financially brilliant move to turn its back on the unspoken rule that synthetic motor oil must be formulated with Group 1V PAO. It replaced the PAO/Ester blend in its Syntec brand engine oil with VHVI (very high viscosity index) Group 3 mineral base stock --- at about half the cost !

    This enabled Castrol to significantly reduce its base stock costs for the product and increase its margins, while arguably delivering the same performance as with PAO.

    Although Mobil challenged Castrol`s use of the word ‘’synthetic’’ for the new Syntec formulation, by taking its case to the National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureaus in 1999, it sadly lost. The NAD, as most in the industry are aware, sided with Castrol.This gave Syntec and therefore Group 3 base stock the unofficial green light to compete on the same track as PAO and other synthetics.

    The NAD ruling and Castrol`s switch to Group 3 had a major impact and within 2 years of the ruling , money talked and most followed Castrol`s walk , replacing millions of liters of Group 1V PAO with Group 3 base stock in so called synthetic and synthetic blend oils, enhancing profit margins.

    PAO proponents charge that Group 3 base stock ‘’hi-jacked the good name and reputation of synthetics, a reputation that was built on the hard work of PAO’’ and that the fight is far from over with a grass-roots effort under way by the Synthetic Lubricants Council to band together interesting parties to establish and promote a definition for ‘’ true synthetics’’ that distinguishes them as unique (and presumably better) compared to Group 3 base stock.

    As this battle in the world rages on presently demanding for an even better SM + spec, the uninformed consumer is expected to effectively lubricate his latest 1st world technology vehicle in SA , with only Group 1 base stock locally manufactured by the Shell and Engen refineries in Durban.

    Group 1 base stock unfortunately lends itself to a limited additive package due to ‘’drop out ‘’, resulting in a flood of local budget priced oil made to fairly old API specifications, ranging from SF,SG / CC upwards.

    It is in the interest of the consumers to be aware of what is in that can that you buy, because the old adage ‘’ you get what you pay for’’, is very much alive & well, and waiting for the uninitiated, right here on the shelves of the local retailers.

    Now, after all of this, to answer your question, UNIGLIDE is a SA manufactured semi-synthetic PAO blended ‘’ steroids for oil’’ metal treatment, developed by a Mobil SA petro chemical engineer, Dieter Henckert using the P Bowden technology which effectively reduces friction, temperature and wear, with the added fuel economy and extended component life.

    Uniglide friction treatment has been commercially available in SA for the past 18 years and used effectively in Earthmoving equipment, trucking, steel mill rolling plants, high speed printing presses to motor racing and exported to Australia China and the US.

    We don’t believe in frivolous snake oil gadgetry like the Timken roller ball test machines, so effectively demonstrated at the local shows, ever since I was kid started by Bardahl.

    Uniglide is a responsible company, very serious about lubrication and would rather believe in the official 4 ball Extreme Pressure friction test, SAE D 4172 which was conducted by the Queensland University at an elevated temperature of 150 degrees C as opposed to the std. 75 degrees C test. Which recorded a 10 percent improvement in wear reduction, proving the superior Extreme Pressure qualities of a plant derived long chain fatty acid metal treatment. (Test results available on request.)

    So yes, snake oils will be with us, unfortunately confusing the amateur chemist now declaring his blind faith in the oil majors!

    REGARDS,

    Derick Thesnaar.







    REFERENCES:



    Dieter Klaman &nbs p; &nbs p; Lubricants and Related Products

    P Bowden &nbs p; &nbs p; &nbs p; Friction, the Treatment of Solids

    P Hendrick &n bsp; &n bsp; &n bsp; SAIT Lubrication Engineering, Principles and Technology

    William A Gruse ; ; Motor Oils, Performance and Evaluation

    A Gellman & N Spencer &nb sp; Surface Chemistry in Tribology

    T Glenn ; ; ; Lubes&Greases











    Derick Thesnaar

    UNIGLIDE
    Yes you have heard it all before, this one works

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