Bmw X3

[Bundu]

Well with the Panda we also had a X3 tagging along which impressed me a lot for being a softroader with no greater ground clearance than the panda but lots more engin power. Altough there were placed that we needed to look for an alternative route through the bush it did go most of the places we played. (note to myself don't buy this BMW - & yes it will be in the market soon as the driver saw why we didn't buy this kind of offroader (or should I say softroader).

Must still be under motorplan

[Bundu]

Definatly - car is not yet a year old.
But the driver was very responsable. Coinsedetally it was people that I know from work envornment (client & supplier) & they though that it being a 4x4 they'll go for a day's outing, luckly they found us there & we mananged to coach them trough most of the places (the car didn't get any damage) & he did take the escape routes where there was except 2 places were the 4x2 track/escape route was also bad & we had to look for alternative route for it.

[Cookie Monster]

The X5 is actually better of road then the X3 however they are both softroaders I know of a guy who has moded his X5 with some really serious suspention and even a diff lock to aid the traction control he also has found a way of fitting a low range to this X5 I am busy trying to get more info on this if anyone is intrested?

[Henris]

Originally Posted by Cookie Monster

The X5 is actually better of road then the X3 however they are both softroaders I know of a guy who has moded his X5 with some really serious suspention and even a diff lock to aid the traction control he also has found a way of fitting a low range to this X5 I am busy trying to get more info on this if anyone is intrested?

Why the hell bother?

[jonoB]

Originally Posted by henris

Why the hell bother?

AGREED! with all that money, buy a cruiser!

[bartho van wyk]

Had the x3 2.0d and currently the 3.0d . Will kick any serious off roader's butt in the dunes on a long steep dune climb. If you are carefull of approach angles and ramp over angels its very good in the dunes.....

Pic's of dune driving

[C Africa]

Originally Posted by Henris

Why the hell bother?

I think the answer is simple, because there is not a single "real" off roader with a proper diesel engine!

I wish I could build one of those beemer engines into my Landy. What a vehicle it would be then!!!

Even though I drive the Landy, I also own an X5. Despite being a diesel, it does 0 to 100 in 7 seconds and I've driven it through mountain passes the way you take a sports car through there.

I agree with Bartho, on one dune trip that I did (in the old X5 that had the weaker engine), my companion was driving a 3.5 petrol Pajero and I easily outperformed him in the dunes, despite having lower profile tyres!!

C

[SimonB]

Originally Posted by C Africa

I think the answer is simple, because there is not a single "real" off roader with a proper diesel engine!...

I think many people will disagree with you there

Even though I drive the Landy, I also own an X5. Despite being a diesel, it does 0 to 100 in 7 seconds and I've driven it through mountain passes the way you take a sports car through there.

So you mod it like the guy mentioned in an earlier post and you certainly won't be driving it like that.

I agree with Bartho, on one dune trip that I did (in the old X5 that had the weaker engine), my companion was driving a 3.5 petrol Pajero and I easily outperformed him in the dunes, despite having lower profile tyres!!

Performance in the sand does not an offroader make... I agree with henri... why the hell bother?

[roadhawg]

Ive Spent a Lot of time in my SO's mom's X3. Trips to the Waterberg and down to the South Coast.

After a 6hr trip my back was broken an I thought I was going to wee blood. It has such bad ride quality, especially bad for an "SUV". If it rode like that and was a performance sports-car it would be understandable, But not In a car like that.

Dont know why anyone buys one. Rather get a Nice 5series. Has the same room, and pretty much the same offroad capability and Miles better on-road.!

[Henris]

I think the answer is simple, because there is not a single "real" off roader with a proper diesel engine!

2 engines come to mind from the Toyota stable. 1HDFTE and the new V8 D4D

Engine Code/Name 1HD-FTE

Engine capacity (cc) 4164

Engine type Diesel

Forced induction system Turbo

Engine description 6cyl/SOHC/4v

Max Power 122kW @ 3400rpm

Max Power 151kW @ 3400rpm
(on LC100 with intercooler)

Torque 380Nm @ 1400rpm

Torque 430Nm @ 1800rpm
(on LC100 with intercooler)

Number of cylinders 6cyl

Configuration In-line

Valvetrain SOHC

Valves per cylinder 4v

Fuel system Direct injection EFI

- Fuel type Diesel

Bore x Stroke 94.0x100.0mm

Compression Ratio 18.8:1

Battery output 12V/65Ah

Alternator output 110A

Ignition system Compression

D-4D V8 4.5

Engine code 1VD-FTV
Fuel type 48 Cetane diesel
No. of cylinders, arrangement 8 cylinders, V type
Valve mechanism 32-Valve DOHC
Bore x stroke (mm) 86.0 x 96.0
Displacement (cc) 4,461
Compression ratio 16.8 : 1
Fuel system Common rail type
Emission level EURO IV
Injection pressure (bar) 1800
Max. power DIN hp/rpm (kW) 286@3600(210)

Max. torque (Nm/rpm) 650@1600-2800

[C Africa]

Hi Henri's,

I'm not trying to step on any toes here but I think you just made my point for me. That 4.2l is a HUGE engine that does not even produce the same power as the standard 2.5, 2.7 and 3l engines from Volkswagen, Merc and BMW.

The standard 3l from BM, gives 173kw and over 500nm. The twin turbo produces 210kw and 600nm.

I agree that that L Cruiser is awesome if you can live with such a huge vehicle. The Beemer though will return 10l per 100 while cruising above the speed limit ( and I suspect that Cruiser is quite a bit heavier on sous).

Regards.

C

[Henris]

Yes it is, but will the beemer go 500,000km?

[SimonB]

I think you're missing Henri's point...

You're talking about smallish, highly strung motors that produce huge power and high torque at relatively high revs. These engines are designed for cruising, not offroading.

I'd argue that the Toyota D4D and Mitsu DiD are MUCH more suitable for offroading than any of the motors you are referring to. In addition I don't think they'll last anywhere near as long...

[Henris]

Now I can't edit again.

1HDFTE Torque 430Nm @ 1800rpm
V8 Max. torque (Nm/rpm) 650@1600-2800

Will the beemer do it at those revs?

[C Africa]

Originally Posted by SimonB

I think you're missing Henri's point...

You're talking about smallish, highly strung motors that produce huge power and high torque at relatively high revs. These engines are designed for cruising, not offroading.

I'd argue that the Toyota D4D and Mitsu DiD are MUCH more suitable for offroading than any of the motors you are referring to. In addition I don't think they'll last anywhere near as long...

I don't think so Simon. The diesel in my X5 runs at LOWER revs than the one in my Defender. It also has max revs fairly similar to most diesels (you'll really struggle to get it obver 4000 rpm, despite the red line on the rev counter starting at 5).

These engines are not high revving, just high torque and yes that puts extra strain on them, but I've personally experienced several of them in the 300k kilo class.

Let me make my position clear. I drove a 1500cc diesel golf 30 years ago. I owned one of the first turbo diesel 4x4's in the country (Isuzu 1994). If you look at double cabs and vehicles like Prado and Pajero they have engines in the 2.7 to 3.2l range and produce power in the 90 to 120kw range. That is about what a 2l modern diesel does (example, volkswagen and BMW or 2.2 from Merc).

I believe that technology has moved but it hasn't found its way into 4x4's. I'd like to have that Land Cruiser 100 with the Touareg V10 engine under the hood. I'd like to have a modern diesel (anyone, VW, BMW or Mercedes and some others), under the hood of a serious 4x4. Something that will allow you to easily accellerate for overtaking even when you're towing a heavy off road trailer or a boat.

No, I don't want to go and play sportscar with it, we all know what off-roaders ability in that regard is, I just related that example to reflect that diesel engines exist that can give you performance on a par with petrol engines.

If it is not available, there are two ways of achieving it. Either "soup up" your 4x4's existing engine (which is why people like Steve's Auto clinic make such a roaring trade, it seems that lots of people go this route) or try to give a vehicle that has such an engine a bit more off road ability.

Yes the second (that example of the guy modding his X5), may not be as practical or cheap, but it is an option to consider if the performance is more important than the off-road ability. You're never going to turn an X5 into a serious off roader, just as you're never going to turn a serious 4x4 into a high performance vehicle.

At the end of the day, these are our toys, and who can criticise someone for enjoying his toy in a different way from some-one else?

C

[RMnewto4x4]

Hi folks. Am in the market for a 4x4 and need some advice - considering an X3. have a 3 year horizon and would ideally like to sell it at that time as I am likely to be moving to another part of the world. The boss (my wife) says no to big vehicles. We are looking to do a reasonable amount of game park driving and driving to Namibia and Botswana. The X3 (diesel) came to mind. Something in the 2003/4/5 range, preferably with under 100K km. Do you think this makes sense. Do not intend to do serious offroading but a reasonable amount of gravel and dirt roads. Your thoughts? live in Gauteng - any idea what I should expect to pay for something like that?

[C Africa]

Perfect long distance cruiser. There are several other's too. Don't attempt anything serious offroad though (especially anything needing clearance / ride height). Sand will be perfect just watch out for very high middle ridge (middelmannetjie)on a twin track, you will scrape the bottom all the way (especially with a load on).

On cost, run a search on Autotrader's website.

C

[Fluffy]

Originally Posted by C Africa

I don't think so Simon. The diesel in my X5 runs at LOWER revs than the one in my Defender. It also has max revs fairly similar to most diesels (you'll really struggle to get it obver 4000 rpm, despite the red line on the rev counter starting at 5).

These engines are not high revving, just high torque and yes that puts extra strain on them, but I've personally experienced several of them in the 300k kilo class.

Let me make my position clear. I drove a 1500cc diesel golf 30 years ago. I owned one of the first turbo diesel 4x4's in the country (Isuzu 1994). If you look at double cabs and vehicles like Prado and Pajero they have engines in the 2.7 to 3.2l range and produce power in the 90 to 120kw range. That is about what a 2l modern diesel does (example, volkswagen and BMW or 2.2 from Merc).

I believe that technology has moved but it hasn't found its way into 4x4's. I'd like to have that Land Cruiser 100 with the Touareg V10 engine under the hood. I'd like to have a modern diesel (anyone, VW, BMW or Mercedes and some others), under the hood of a serious 4x4. Something that will allow you to easily accellerate for overtaking even when you're towing a heavy off road trailer or a boat.

No, I don't want to go and play sportscar with it, we all know what off-roaders ability in that regard is, I just related that example to reflect that diesel engines exist that can give you performance on a par with petrol engines.

If it is not available, there are two ways of achieving it. Either "soup up" your 4x4's existing engine (which is why people like Steve's Auto clinic make such a roaring trade, it seems that lots of people go this route) or try to give a vehicle that has such an engine a bit more off road ability.

Yes the second (that example of the guy modding his X5), may not be as practical or cheap, but it is an option to consider if the performance is more important than the off-road ability. You're never going to turn an X5 into a serious off roader, just as you're never going to turn a serious 4x4 into a high performance vehicle.

At the end of the day, these are our toys, and who can criticise someone for enjoying his toy in a different way from some-one else?

C

Or you could just buy a RRS Twin Turbo Diesel V8

Flex, proper centre and axle diff lockers and adjustable air suspension, Low Range, Traction Control, Terrain Response etc, 200Kw and 650 Nm, Brembo Racing brakes, 20" low profile road tyres and lots more are all standard. Just add Diesel and a set of G4 challenge GY MTR's for the rough stuff.

Will come in at a fraction of the cost of a modded X5.

But as you have stated, have fun. Even deciding what mods to do, and then actually doing them is a big part of the thrill.

This post is just one of the many mind tools that I use to justify to myself why I spent so much money on a car.

[C Africa]

You know Fluffy, you make my point for me. Why is that lovely V8 diesel not available in their other models? Can you imagine a Defender with that poke under the bonnet? And yes they can handle the power, they used to fit V8 petrol engines in the defenders.

Many guys with the V6 diesel in the Disco's would probably also love that V8 instead. So what is the story, why are no serious off roader offered with a modern diesel engine?

By the way, I looked at the RRS V8 diesel, but I just couldn't get the seat in a comfortable position. I adopt a very upright driving position (back problems cause no other position to work) and in the Rangie, that causes the headrest to push me into a crouched position. I just drove it around the bolck and by the time I got out I was already irritated beyond measure with the uncomfortable position.

C

[Fluffy]

Hi C Africa. I have to agree with you on the seat issue. With all the electrically adjustable positions, including adjustable lumbar support, I still havent found the ideal position after several months.

Having said that I have travelled 10-12 hours in one go and felt perfect at the end. Maybe what feels good initialy is actually not best for you in the long run. Something similar to a bed that is nice and soft and comfy when you get into it, but you wake up with a backache vss a harder bed with support that initially isn't that comfy but is actualy better for you.

Strangely enough my Touareg also had hard wierd seats that left you feeling great after 12 hours of driving. (I still miss my Egg).

The TDV8 is absolutely awesume in all respects, refined, smooth, quiet, economical (yes), power, torque, etc.

But watch out for the 2010 Disco's and Rangies, completely new high tech Petrol and Diesels. Strangely enough they have retained the TDV8