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  #1  
Old 25-05-11, 12:18 PM
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Question Home Defence: Paintball gun?


In light of how difficult it is to obtain a firearm license plus the trouble and hassle that go with it, I am seriously considering buying a paint-ball gun for home defense. I had incident no.3 last yesterday within a year and such a weapon would have been ideal. It won't kill or maim, but the offender will know you mean business.

Do any of you use a paint-ball gun for close range home defense, or used one in the past? Are rubber or solid plastic bullets available for them?

Share your opinion. Please note, this is not a discussion about firearms VS paint-ball guns. The difference is obvious.

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  #2  
Old 25-05-11, 12:23 PM
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This site has all your answeres

http://www.paintballguns.co.za

some lethal stuff at their SECURITY & SELF DEFENCE SECTION

ENJOY

Last edited by RANDYTD5; 25-05-11 at 12:25 PM.
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  #3  
Old 25-05-11, 12:26 PM
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I won't go for it. In a SD situation, it is your life or theirs. Shooting someone with pepper balls while he is wielding a 9mm does not seem like a viable option. If every person in SA had a handgun and knew how to use it, crime rates will be much lower.

If your life is in danger, shoot to kill.

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Old 25-05-11, 12:38 PM
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Old 25-05-11, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flip Marais View Post
Shooting someone with pepper balls while he is wielding a 9mm does not seem like a viable option.
Plus 100

The cases / times where you will be legally allowed to use a paintball gun is exactly the same as when you may use a real gun. Go through the schlep and get a real gun.
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  #6  
Old 25-05-11, 12:42 PM
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Al wat er sę is ek sal nie loop Leeu jag met 'n kettie nie. Gaan hom net kwaad maak!

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  #7  
Old 25-05-11, 12:54 PM
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A few shots in the face with this thing and he wont know where he is...

http://www.fortisgroup.co.za/gasguns/defender-mk3/

Uses glass, pepper and nylon pellets. Might just as well get one while you wait for a licensed gun... If you want one, but I find it strange that the houses that are attacked, they always ask for the safe and/or the guns...?? Where do the criminals get the info?? Corrupt SAPS officers selling this to them?

A few other suggestions... I live on a plot in Muldersdrif and do not have a firearm. I do however make sure our doors are ALWAYS locked, have flood lights on all sides of the house, guard dog that sleeps outside and one that is house trained that sleeps in our room. I also hide knives, baseball bats and other hand weapons at strategic places around the house. On top of that we have an electric fence, panic buttons and armed response. Still not enough though, I still lie awake for hours some nights if the dog outside starts barking...

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  #8  
Old 25-05-11, 01:00 PM
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Default Paintball Gun

I have a paintball gun that is loaded with a combination of solid plastic balls & pepper balls, at approx. 15 meters it shreads a beer can in two.

I also tested it on a 20l paint can, it leaves a +- 10mm indentation, this should sureley stop anayone in his tracks as the rate of fire can vary from 5 to 15 rounds a second.

And I agree with some comments on this post and wont argue with a 9mm.
But granted a opportunity.......
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Old 25-05-11, 01:03 PM
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Getting a Paintball gun until your real gun arrives is fine.

But get the long and tedious process started as soon as possible on a real weapon.

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  #10  
Old 25-05-11, 01:05 PM
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Ok, so maybe we have to discuss the differences after all. Here is my take:

*I do not want to carry a fire arm on my person. It's very uncomfortable.
*Also carrying a fire arm makes you a target these days, as guys attack you for the weapon. The same goes for having one in your house. People (kitchen and garden engineers) talk and pretty soon they know you have one at home. Plus, I reckon weapon owner's details are not so safe at SAPS as we would all like to believe.
*Yes, dead people can't talk that is true, but it can cause a lot of trouble for you. Here your conscious and the circumstances dictate the outcome.
*Then there is the safekeeping. When you carry it with you, there is always the hassle where to keep it on holidays, during events etc etc. Kids...
*If it gets stolen, there is some serious explaining to do.

We have a guy in our community that shot dead his own daughter a few years ago by mistake, for thinking she was a thieve trying to steal a car at their home. Yes, maybe the exception, but it has lasting effects.

Guns have their place, I am still deciding where that is exactly.

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  #11  
Old 25-05-11, 01:13 PM
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seems a viable option... obviously not in comparison to a gun, but as Werner mentions, he (and probably most of us) have various methods of protection that we employ in our homes, so what is the harm of another slightly more "persuasive" one.

However, the only benefit as I see it, would be the circumstance when you are inside and they are outside. The PBguns dont make a sound anything like a real gun so you are not necessarily giving someone a fright that would make them return fire... the first thing they will realize is that they are being showered with very sore little balls that make them vomit and cry... which would spark an immediate "RUN" command in their heads...

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  #12  
Old 25-05-11, 01:25 PM
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Sure, MacJohn, if you have made up your mind about not wanting a firearm, I suppose you'll have to make a plan to at least make the home safer.

Sure, get a paintball gun. But make double sure that you are able to be on the offensice then, by putting in early warning systems (beams etc), so that you are not reaching for the paintball gun while they are already taking aim.

Store a few decent knives around the house, and always have one within easy reach. Get proper training with it, you'll be amazed at what the AMOK! guys can do with a knife.

Invest in proper close combat training.

You don't need a gun to be able to defend yourself. A gun just levels the playing field.

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  #13  
Old 25-05-11, 01:37 PM
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Got feedback from the supplier of the Mk3 Gas gun - "hy average so 415 voet per sekonde. Die solid balle breek 'n kar se windskerm - dit behoort 'n aanduiding te wees van impak."

Dink ek gaan maar ene koop!

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  #14  
Old 25-05-11, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flip Marais View Post
... I suppose you'll have to make a plan to at least make the home safer.
Sure, get a paintball gun. But make double sure that you are able to be on the offensice then, by putting in early warning systems (beams etc), so that you are not reaching for the paintball gun while they are already taking aim.
Store a few decent knives around the house, and always have one within easy reach. Get proper training with it, you'll be amazed at what the AMOK! guys can do with a knife.
Invest in proper close combat training.
You don't need a gun to be able to defend yourself. A gun just levels the playing field.
Jip, after incident no.1 I got alarms and two dogs. They entered the house while I was sleeping and by the looks of it were looking for guns - only took a cellphone.

I was able to "introduce" myself in person to the trespasser during incident no.2. It would just have been lekker to clip him from the fence with one of these paint-ball guns as I saw him observing me.

Incident no.3 was a guy molesting his "wife" in front of my yard and then going all loco on me when I expressed my concern.

In 2 out of 3 cases the paint-ball gun would have sufficed. The third one was purely a lack of early warning systems. Now, if I can only get them to stand still over my table vice.......

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  #15  
Old 25-05-11, 02:38 PM
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Guys this has been debated to death on gunsite where there are legal egal's involved as well.

Bottom line is its against the law to use a paint bal gun for self defense.

Its against the LAW to protect any property with lethal force
so even if you have a real gun you are not allowed to protect property with it.

So the guy who shot he's daughter because he mistaken her for a car thieve broke the LAW in anycase and will be delacred unfit to posess a fire arm again in he's life.

ONLY your life can be protected not your car , not your house or TV.

The guys promoting paint ball guns for self defence will not come to your rescue when you been jailed that I can bet you.

Should you fire a paint ball gun at someone be it a criminal armed or not
and you hit him in the eye , you will be paying him a salary for the rest of your life.

I have three paint balls guns , but when It comes to my own and family's safety I much rather use my Glock have done so in the past and wil do so in the future.
For eveything ells I have house hold insurence

SAD INDEED but its the LAW in SA
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  #16  
Old 25-05-11, 02:41 PM
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I UNDERSTAN NOT WANTING A GUN, IF NOTHING ELSE, FOR THE ADDED RESPONSIBILITIES.
But do not think a pb gun will suffice. Think of how many attacks still continue after a fair hit from a 9mm or 38
You did say home defence, so whats the carrying objection? I manage to carry a Colt model 70 in a hideaway belt holster at home and my family don't notice. A professor friend carries one every day to campus and his very quick-off-the-mark students don't notice. They did notice his swiss army knife in a belt heath and complained he wa carrying a "weapon'. So now he puts it in his pocket!
I seriously say, get a gun, go through the rigmarole. In principle, the relicensing is a good thing, its just the implementation and prejudices and incompetence that buggers it up

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Old 25-05-11, 03:13 PM
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SORRY. I might get this thread deleted, but Charlie1800, what is insurance gonna help if a guy rapes your wife while his buddy holds a gun in your ribs. Didn't happen to me but i received a call once hearing that there is someone in my house with my pregnant wife. He didn't steal anything, but "flirted" with my wife. Luckily nothing happened. She sorted him out with a stun batten and he fled. Unfortunately! Would have loved to "educate" him a little.
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  #18  
Old 25-05-11, 03:30 PM
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Very interesting read regarding the legalities of owning and using a PB gun in self defence.

http://www.fortisgroup.co.za/law/

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Last edited by WernerDV; 25-05-11 at 03:30 PM. Reason: typo
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  #19  
Old 25-05-11, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOUWA View Post
SORRY. I might get this thread deleted, but Charlie1800, what is insurance gonna help if a guy rapes your wife while his buddy holds a gun in your ribs. Didn't happen to me but i received a call once hearing that there is someone in my house with my pregnant wife. He didn't steal anything, but "flirted" with my wife. Luckily nothing happened. She sorted him out with a stun batten and he fled. Unfortunately! Would have loved to "educate" him a little.
Louwa maybe you read charlie's post to fast.
The insurance is for the household items and your Swambo is not one of those now is she?
The real gun is to protect your wife and children and of course your own life if threatened.

Another question, what is the difference between a PB gun and a stun batten? Is the point of haveing it not the same?

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  #20  
Old 25-05-11, 03:36 PM
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To bring the conversation back to the original question...

As a professional paintballer, I can say that a paintball MARKER (it's not a gun) is not ideal for self defense.

Firstly, in order to ensure it's always at the ready, you need to keep it gassed up and loaded with balls.

Whether you use gas (CO2) or compressed air, it will eventually leak out in little bits and may let you down when you need it most.

The balls - with the exception of nylon balls and solids - are also not weather proof and if kept in the hopper or chamber for extended periods of time will deteriorate and break in the barrel when you do eventually shoot.

ALL paintball markers jam regularly and need constant lubrication and servicing (even when not in use).

They're also not very accurate, so if you think that you'll hit an assailant first time in the face when you're stressed out and panicking because you're being attacked, think again.

Even my R5,000, 25 ball per second, upgraded to the extreme marker is more accurate than most, but still misses from time to time, even when I am unleashing "ropes" of paint.

Paintball markers are great for playing paintball. Even the markers that are sold as "self defense" weapons are not reliable and you'll end up spending a lot of money on something that may disappoint you.

Just my 2c

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Old 25-05-11, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flip Marais View Post
I won't go for it. In a SD situation, it is your life or theirs. Shooting someone with pepper balls while he is wielding a 9mm does not seem like a viable option. If every person in SA had a handgun and knew how to use it, crime rates will be much lower.

If your life is in danger, shoot to kill.
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  #22  
Old 25-05-11, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crips View Post
Another question, what is the difference between a PB gun and a stun batten? Is the point of haveing it not the same?
A PB gun shoots a projectile at x amount of energy. This is seen as a less-lethal firearm.

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Old 25-05-11, 03:39 PM
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Also worth reading!
Attached Files
File Type: pdf WHEN CAN I FIRE.pdf (21.4 KB, 333 views)

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Old 25-05-11, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOUWA View Post
SORRY. I might get this thread deleted, but Charlie1800, what is insurance gonna help if a guy rapes your wife while his buddy holds a gun in your ribs. Didn't happen to me but i received a call once hearing that there is someone in my house with my pregnant wife. He didn't steal anything, but "flirted" with my wife. Luckily nothing happened. She sorted him out with a stun batten and he fled. Unfortunately! Would have loved to "educate" him a little.

Insurance aint gonna help. My Glock 22 and my training will
So will I be able to explain to a judge
why I emptyed my magazine on armed criminal and he's friend waving my SAPS issued Selfe defence license at him.

Trust me when having a gun against your head the last thing you want in your hand is a paint ball gun
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Old 25-05-11, 03:59 PM
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Crips. I know what he mean't. But the name of the thread is home defence. I don't care what you use to do so. Use it! It is your right. Have we gone soft?
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Old 25-05-11, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WernerDV View Post
Very interesting read regarding the legalities of owning and using a PB gun in self defence.
http://www.fortisgroup.co.za/law/
Gents, according to the piece WernerDV posted:


"In short
The principle is simple: the life of the attacker can
only be taken in order to protect your or someone
else’s life or to prevent serious bodily harm. It is
unlawful to use lethal force in any other
circumstances. In other words, your property is not
worth the life of the person that is stealing it from
you."


Thus the law stipulates you may only defend your life or that of another person with lethal force if threatened directly. You will have a hard time explaining to the judge why you killed a guy when he was robbing from you.

Thus, to satisfy the law: If you wake in the middle of the night and there is a guy in your house stealing your stuff, you may not shoot him unless he directly threatens your or your family's lives.

Now that being said, we all know, in the current SA scene, what the chances are that he will simply walk out and leave you alone: slim-none.

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Old 25-05-11, 04:16 PM
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Obviously having a PB gun instead of a S&W .40 is not a good idea.
But having a PB while waiting for your .40 license is a not so bad idea.

It is going to be very challenging making your way down my hall to my bedroom door at 3 in the morning while I am shining my TK40 in your eyes wich is mounted to the barrel of my BT4 marker loaded with 200 solid and pepper ball mix flying towards you at a rate of 12 balls per second.

I reckon you might just give up before my 200 balls are up.

The key to PB marker defence is early warning. Waking up with a thug looking at you from the foot of your bed is not the ideal situation to try and use your toy gun.
Seeing him trying to break open your burglar bars after he tripped your beams, thats a whole different story!

Bottom line still is get yourself a real GUN!!! preferably a M&P 40 :-)

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Old 25-05-11, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macjohnw View Post
Gents, according to the piece WernerDV posted:


"In short
The principle is simple: the life of the attacker can
only be taken in order to protect your or someone
else’s life or to prevent serious bodily harm. It is
unlawful to use lethal force in any other
circumstances. In other words, your property is not
worth the life of the person that is stealing it from
you."

Thus the law stipulates you may only defend your life or that of another person with lethal force if threatened directly. You will have a hard time explaining to the judge why you killed a guy when he was robbing from you.

Thus, to satisfy the law: If you wake in the middle of the night and there is a guy in your house stealing your stuff, you may not shoot him unless he directly threatens your or your family's lives.

Now that being said, we all know, in the current SA scene, what the chances are that he will simply walk out and leave you alone: slim-none.

Spot On so is it worth the risk to try and defend yourself with a paint ball gun ?

If you wake up in the middle of the night and there are criminals in your house ,threatening your loved ones , I will bet good money on it when you shoot the first one with a real gun the rest will run , I am not so sure
this will be the case with a paint ball gun.

Getting a license for a firearm is realy not that hard.
Yes it takes long and cost you a bit of money but
its not impossible.

I will help you with the admin side of things , I have obtianed two
of the most dufficult licenses already with my own motivation.
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Old 25-05-11, 04:23 PM
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Trust me when having a gun against your head the last thing you want in your hand is a paint ball gun [/QUOTE]

Having a gun against your head means you have lost the fight, what you have in your hand is irrelevant in this situation.

1. How many people have successfully defended themselves against an attack because they were armed?
2. How many people have had their firearms stolen/ taken from them in an attack?

These two questions are the ones I have not managed to answer for myself. Attacks of this nature are carefully planned and almost always surprise attacks. Will I be able to get to my firearm before it is too late, or am I going to open the safe with a gun against my head (in a robbery they go for the firearms first).
I have not convinced myself that I will be better off owning a firearm for self defense. Maybe some input from the members here will help me make up my mind.
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Old 25-05-11, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gideon View Post
Trust me when having a gun against your head the last thing you want in your hand is a paint ball gun
Having a gun against your head means you have lost the fight, what you have in your hand is irrelevant in this situation.

1. How many people have successfully defended themselves against an attack because they were armed?
2. How many people have had their firearms stolen/ taken from them in an attack?

These two questions are the ones I have not managed to answer for myself. Attacks of this nature are carefully planned and almost always surprise attacks. Will I be able to get to my firearm before it is too late, or am I going to open the safe with a gun against my head (in a robbery they go for the firearms first).
I have not convinced myself that I will be better off owning a firearm for self defense. Maybe some input from the members here will help me make up my mind.[/QUOTE]


Valid questions Gideon I will gladly answer.
Having a gun against your head means you have lost the fight, what you have in your hand is irrelevant in this situation.

DISAGREE you lost the fight when you being lowered into your grave , before that you have a change.

Example my FIL was about to be shot in he's own cars boot the gun was against he's head and he saw a gap he took it , and he is alive and well today few years later , Infact he is more alive than before , He learned from that ,so that could prevent two attacks against him a year or so later.

1. How many people have successfully defended themselves against an attack because they were armed?
** I cant give an exact figure of all over SA, but I can name two occasions I did and two Occasions my FIL has. For me That is enough I wouldnt be here today if I was un armed.
2. How many people have had their firearms stolen/ taken from them in an attack? Plenty WHY because there firearm was lying in a safe. How many people are murdered on farms because there fire arms are lying in the safe?

You are correct if you think having a fire arm in a safe will make you any safer forget it , It will just be stolen from you.

Just owning a gun doesnt make you safer , that was an old wife's tale by the .38 rossie bregade and in real life that is just that a tale.

If you make take the step to obtain a fire arm for selfe defense
you need to be on top of your game , You need at least Level three gun fight fundementals , SWAT or simliar training. You need to be on the range no less than ones a month. I am not talking standing around shooting at a non moving paper target that doesnt shoot back , I am talking drills , mag changes in the move , one hand shooting, moving targets , Etc

In a country with our violent crime stats you can not take your own safety lightly.

You must know that alot of the times the criminals have some sort of military or police backround , You need to be prepaired
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Old 25-05-11, 05:16 PM
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I won't go for it. In a SD situation, it is your life or theirs. Shooting someone with pepper balls while he is wielding a 9mm does not seem like a viable option. If every person in SA had a handgun and knew how to use it, crime rates will be much lower.

If your life is in danger, shoot to kill.
Are you speaking from experience. ?

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Old 25-05-11, 05:35 PM
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I'm all for the paint-ball gun, I'm also all for the firearm way of thinking, cross-bow, longbow, baseball bats, cricket bats, knives...

My question is this then...

What happens when you shoot someone with your paint-ball gun 10 to 20 times, he runs away, the cops never find him (or they do, but never goes to jail)...

What happens when that guy decides to come back? I know many people say that if he is dead then he can't come back, but it's not that simple, and you can't just say "kill him" cause it's not always possible, let's face it.

I want to know from you guys, what are your thoughts on this? Do you think the perpetrator would come back in revenge cause you frightened him away or whatever, or do you think he will just go to the next house?

That's what scares me, when they come back cause you gave them a hiding the last time.

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Old 25-05-11, 05:40 PM
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ok.
So if the "skelm" is busy climbing over your wall or taking a leak against your tree, shoot him with the paintball gun?
And if he is a threat to you or anyone in your house take the real gun, it's you or him so shoot him first?

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Old 25-05-11, 05:45 PM
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I'm all for the paint-ball gun, I'm also all for the firearm way of thinking, cross-bow, longbow, baseball bats, cricket bats, knives...

My question is this then...

What happens when you shoot someone with your paint-ball gun 10 to 20 times, he runs away, the cops never find him (or they do, but never goes to jail)...

What happens when that guy decides to come back? I know many people say that if he is dead then he can't come back, but it's not that simple, and you can't just say "kill him" cause it's not always possible, let's face it.

I want to know from you guys, what are your thoughts of this? Do you think the perpetrator would come back in revenge cause you frightened him away or whatever, or do you think he will just go to the next house?

That's what scares me, when they come back cause you gave them a hiding the last time.
Well, if you shot him with live ammo and killed him, there are other implications, his whole neighborhood will know. A nice pepper ball between the eyeballs i say. Most of those okes cant shoot straight anyway, especially when they are on tik.
I will definitely use mine, if the attacker isn't armed i am not interested in hand to hand combat. A permanent dye marker ball would also be nice, especially one that glows in the dark hey. You could spot him a mile off in the dark.

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Old 25-05-11, 07:45 PM
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Remember to also check the other ways of improving your safety at home (above the 2 dogs and alarm and possible gasgun):

- Find out if there is a neighbourhood watch active in your community and join it (or start it?). We use Kirisun handheld radios and crime has been reduced radically, and for some reason it seems the people not on the radio network are being targeted by criminals more than the ones on it. Also has uses for other problems like fires, flooding, road damages, car accidents. We can also call the security company (below) on the radio if there is a problem, even for suspicious people or vehicles.

- Our area (2 sector policing blocks, about 600 houses) also has a 24 hour community patrol ADT initiative, costing R176 pm and for another R200 you get the armed response as well. The vehicle patrols the area all day and night and can be called on the cell to meet you at your house when you arrive (prevents highjackings and similar). Other security companies also have similar programs. Other blocks also have the same and it greatly increases the whole neighbourhoods security.

- Perimeter security with WORKING electric fence (you'd be surprised how many arent maintained and working, it acts as deterent and perimeter alarm) and/or perimeter and garden beams or IR sensors linked to your alarm.

- Yard lighting, here is a nice product that allow you to light up your yard easily: http://www.skunk.co.za/product_02.php

From http://media.withtank.com/1d758178f0.pdf of that study by Dr Rudolph Zinn, the following were listed by criminals as deterents and are listed by effectiveness (with most effective at top)

Quote:
• The presence of a number of small dogs inside the house that will bark when they
become aware of suspicious activity outside. Teach any dogs not to take food from
strangers, as perpetrators will not hesitate to poison a dog to neutralise it as a threat.
Razor wire or electric security fences around the entire perimeter of the house. Beware of an electric fence alarm repeatedly going off as this could be caused by perpetrators deliberately causing a short-circuit to the fence in order to get the residents to turn the fence off.
• Pre-warning alarm systems such as security alarm sensors in the garden, along the outside walls, on the roof and in the ceiling. Alarm systems in garages or storerooms will make perpetrators lives difficult, as they generally do not carry housebreaking tools with them. They usually break into a garage or tool shed first to get what they need to force the locks or break the windows of a house.
• An armed response service.
• There is an ‘open view’ into the house or garden from the street or a neighbouring property. This means that the perpetrator could be seen by a neighbour or a person in the street.


• Security lights that make it difficult to move around the outside of the house at night without being seen, especially sensor lights in front of bedrooms.
• CCTV systems and an intercom system for speaking to people who are outside of the property.
• Layers of security as opposed to a single security system.
• Strong doors and security gates with good quality locks.
• Door alarms that are activated when residents are at home.
• Curtains are drawn at night which prevent perpetrators from identifying the movement and location of the residents in the house.
• The existence of a “secure room” within the house where residents are able to escape to once they are aware of an attack.
• Panic buttons should be placed where residents are most likely to need them. Apart from doorways, these devices should be kept in places where residents will be able to access them in places where they are likely to be held during the robbery. For instance in the lounge under chairs or tables, under beds in bedrooms, in bathrooms as people are often locked in bathrooms and bedrooms during a robbery.

• Always check for signs of a forced entry when entering or leaving your home.

• Keep a copy of the ID Book of any employees who have access to or work at the

house including names and contact details of their relatives.

I note that radios arent mentioned but I think the reason is that the study was conducted before their use became more widespread.

Last edited by supersunbird; 25-05-11 at 07:49 PM.
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  #36  
Old 25-05-11, 11:11 PM
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I will try to refrain from comparing the merits of paintball guns with the real thing, because I am biased! Grew up with firearms, and did competitive shooting (Practical Pistol Shooting) for a few years. So you know where my loyalties lie! BUT, I do have some experience with these paint (pepper?) ball guns.

We had one for our neighbourhood watch patrols. A few observations from my side about this "weapon"

1) It is HUGE. A pain to carry, difficult to aim instinctively, etc.

2) Because of its size, it just "may" intimidate a rustic. This because no thief in Namibia will ever entertain the thought that the irate house owner he faces will have anything but a real gun. This may cause him to go "hau" and run.....

3) ......but it can also cause him to go "hau" and shoot you before you shoot him with what to him looks like the big brother of John Wayne's gun. He is unlikely to be shooting a weapon powered by CO2....

4) We stopped using the paintball gun. The thing leaked gas, we had a few AD's in cars with it ( the pepper balls are useless. Even inside a car it did very little). It jammed. Expensive to train with. And most guys are familiar with clearing jammed pistols, but nobody knew how to clear this thing if it jammed.

If "non lethal" self defence is what you are after, consider other options. Most (if not all) of these options however fall far short of a real handgun with PROPER training. And if you train a lot, you will start reloading, introducing you to 2 great hobbies at the same time!
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  #37  
Old 26-05-11, 07:29 AM
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Wow, lots of input an ideas - thanks gents, I read and take them all to heart.

*Yes, waking up with a guy in your room is not ideal for a paint-ball gun, neither for a firearm owner. Chances are you might get shot before obtaining your gun anyway.
*Having a gun against your head is not ideal for a paint-ball gun or a firearm owner either. The point is to avoid this.
*Killing a guy and facing possible jail time because you could not properly explain and thus leaving your family alone is not ideal either.

The law takes a different stance on defending yourself and property with lethal force than way back.

I am not arguing using a paint-ball gun in a good old western one-on-one shootout - it won't suffice, there you fight fire with fire and if acted correctly, the law is on your side. Rather I am maybe arguing using the paint-ball gun as a deterrent to non-immediate threats. But, as pointed out, the law also sees this in a serious light and puts firearms & air guns in the same category.

Difference is: a firearms and bullets can be traced via info and ballistic tests. Paint-ball guns not so much. How will they prove that the bullets fired from your paint-ball are actually yours?

As for bad okes returning for revenge: It might be. Must say, the guy I "welcomed to the neighborhood" after sitting on my front wall scoping me out, has not been back since. Neither has a neighbor's "visitor" after being caught in his yard and given a once over by an VERY angry 60 year old & his willing sambok where after the local security collected and asked him "nicely" not te return . A paint-ball gun would have made the exercise just a little less straining.

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Last edited by macjohnw; 26-05-11 at 07:34 AM.
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  #38  
Old 26-05-11, 07:50 AM
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Get a Black Powder Revolver. No license needed. Just a permit for the black powder. That you get withing 21 days. You load the revolver and put the firing (percussion) caps on and store it in the safe. Just remember that the black powder will not go off when most, so you would have to clean and reload the revolver with new powder every 2-3 weeks or so. They are also a lot of fun to shoot!
I see that there was already a post on the forum about BP revolvers. http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/...ead.php?t=5033

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Old 26-05-11, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OFFROAD ADDICT View Post
Are you speaking from experience. ?
Yes

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Old 26-05-11, 08:05 AM
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Bottom line is its against the law to use a paint bal gun for self defense.



SAD INDEED but its the LAW in SA
Not sure where you got this info (NOT saying its inccorect)
but i have many cop mates at westville,
and they told me its perfectly legal?

I had a "visitor" almost every sunday night at about 330am.
he was trying to "buy" the cars in our driveway.
So one morning i waited for him. I left my bakkie open and left a few things lying on the seat. heard him clear the gate, and walk casually up to the cars saw my bakkie was unlocked, he started shopping.

I sneaked up behind him and from about 3mtrs opened fire with my MR2 spyder on full auto (+- 10 rmp with rubber balls)

funny i havent seen him around for a while now...

Ya ya ya. should have called the cops, should have alled the security co, should have, should have.......
BUT he should have known what he was doing is wrong and that there were conciquences.

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Old 26-05-11, 08:40 AM
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You can use ANYTHING to defend yourself!

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Old 26-05-11, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
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You can use ANYTHING to defend yourself!
Yes, this is true Jan. The question is more of when are you allowed to do so.

You may only defend yourself lethally when your life is directly threatened or that of another. Shooting a guy in the back while he walks through your house at night will be difficult to explain. I agree he should not be there and I would also like to take him apart, but in the end the judge will decide if you acted lawfully.

If I shoot a guy walking around in my garden at night trying to steal stuff, whether with a firearm or a paint-ball gun, it could lead to serious charges. I think your chances with a paint-ball gun is better - he will likely not report or open a cases. Police might take a softer stance at paint-ball guns when used for defense and charge the trespasser/thieve, not you.

The local police seem to turn a bit of a blind eye when it comes to the private security forces - they realize the private outfits are helping them and don't seem to make a lot of noise when an offender gets some jungle justice.

When a robber was shot dead and his mate wounded on our site a few weeks ago - the police asked the security guys why did not shoot to kill the second guy also.

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  #43  
Old 26-05-11, 03:08 PM
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My attitude would be to use the paintball gun if you see 'him or them' in your garden.

It is a totally different story once they are in your house! I do not believe in hiding knives, baseball bats etc. in your house....do you really want to try and stab Mr.Criminal when he has a firearm? do you think you will have time to swing a baseball bat

This was a real life situation and happened to me in 1994:

At about 2am I heard my alarm box 'clicking' intermittently. This was one of the relays activating but I hadn't activated the alarm so it was in standby mode. I got up and saw that it was for my tv room. I took my shotgun which was just behind my headboard and walked up the passage to the tv room. I saw 3 shapes through the light curtains and outside lighting at the sliding door. Fortunately the door had pin locks and they were trying to lift the door hence the intermittent switch opening and closing. I was now standing ready to shoot as soon as they entered. My wife was in bed almost 9months pregnant, I then decided that the shotgun would make too much mess and noise......and I really could not face that...so I quickly ran and got my Glock .40 (loaded with black talons)and told her to phone the police.

As I got to the tv room I peeked around the wall all 3 were entering.....now in this situation...what would be better paintball gun,pepper spray,knife,baseball bat? Sorry guys no way....all 3 of these guys were carrying firearms...(sorry no more detail)

If you just warn or scare them...when will they terrorise,rape,murder the next family?

The sad part was the youngest was just 17...the other 2 were hardened criminals with records and out on bail because of the 'new dispensation!'

I had no comebacks or charges brought against me. My wife went into labour 3 weeks early...and my son was born the next day!

What was important was my military training as well as being a police reservist at the time.

As for the law....what about the guy who 'apprehended' the car thief in corlett drive a couple of weeks ago. He killed him and no charges were brought as he was shot during a crime in progress!

My whole family has been taught to shoot, our house has an escape route in case of emergency...and I do not keep our weapons locked in the safe(apart from hunting rifles).

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Last edited by BruceHun; 26-05-11 at 03:11 PM.
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  #44  
Old 27-05-11, 08:18 AM
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Bruce,

I am glad to hear you all made it safe through the night, even with a fast-tracked birth. Thanks for your inputs, I will keep it in mind.

I have inherited my grandfather's firearm a few years back, but have not made a move to obtain a license etc. Hence I want to collect as much info from guys like you and others that have experience in these type of matters: where firearms were needed or not.

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Old 27-05-11, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiggerKZN View Post
I sneaked up behind him and from about 3mtrs opened fire with my MR2 spyder on full auto (+- 10 rmp with rubber balls)
Ten rounds per minute? That's one round every 6 seconds, then? I can throw the balls at a faster rate than that

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Old 29-05-11, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flip Marais View Post

If your life is in danger, shoot to kill.
My view is this:

1. Never point a firearm, if you don't intend to use it. So, same applies, if it is pointing at me, I'm not going to wait for "are you serious, or what?"

2. Disposables, with all the new hassles, are becoming an option, does it not? The criminals use it, so just avoid the hassle I think...........

3. Just my opinion, not meant as an accessory before the fact before.......

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Old 26-12-12, 07:31 AM
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Is it true that if the barrel of your gun is visible, you could be reported for attempted murder? In the western Cape, a farmer spent a weekend in jail and got all his firearms confiscated after farm worker protesters (imported from Khayelitsha) shouted insults at him at his property (Zim style)

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Old 26-12-12, 09:35 PM
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My information is that it is fatal to show or point anything resembling a gun when armed robbers are facing you. They will not wait to find out what you are pointing. They have done it before!

I was also advised that if you want to use paint-ball type devices it is safer to use one that looks like a torch. It does nor resemble a gun, giving you the element of surprise.

Let us face it - this is an area where those who really know how to handle these situations do not participate here, and of those who do more often than not assume situations which may not be relevant to you.

Common sense, unfortunately, was not issued in equal portions to everyone.
Again (second time) a cousin just had her car cleaned out, having parked in a lot where an attendant ushered her in. Why? Because she was issued with a "street-stupid view" on life by the community who raised her instead of the other way around, preparing her for the real world out there. Left all her valuables in open sight of peeking eyes. Now she wants to buy a car with a boot - and I am conviced she will still leave the camera, i-pad and notebook on the back seat!

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Old 26-12-12, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
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Is it true that if the barrel of your gun is visible
Point, not visible.

Pointing of a firearm will land you in a cell, even a toy gun.

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Old 26-12-12, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
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Point, not visible.

Pointing of a firearm will land you in a cell, even a toy gun.
Yippee. I can send my kids to jail. For pointing water pistols me...

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