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  #1  
Old 14-03-11, 12:36 PM
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Default Diesel or Petrol (first time bakkie buyer)


Hi everyone

I am in the process of finding the bakkie I want, for the price I can afford. Quite hard. be as it may, I am narrowing it down now. I do have one mindboggle which I searched for on the forums already, and asking people just gives you their opinion. So why not ask here, and get an "average", because I am still confused.

I think, that what I want is a ford ranger. (yay).

The question however is, petrol or diesel. My price range with my current trade in, comes to around R130k. For that I can get a 2.5 TD with like 120000+kms on it, or an older, higher mileage petrol V6.

What should I do! People scare me both ways. And I really want a diesel, but the average opinion is that between injectors/turbo replacement/etc the diesel will kill me financially in the long run. Whats the though pattern here? reliability, longevity, etc being the main concerns

I appreciate any one even just reading it.

Dankie!
Marlon van der Linde
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  #2  
Old 14-03-11, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by marlonrc View Post
reliability, longevity, etc being the main concerns
That would mean that tank to tank fuel costs are less of a concern.
Petrol then.

I just find it weird that you're finding the petrols more expensive/older than the diesels.

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  #3  
Old 14-03-11, 12:56 PM
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As Thys. After the last week or two he might tell you to go for diesel.
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  #4  
Old 14-03-11, 01:09 PM
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Not a chance, Rico. The costs of replacing injectors, high pressure pumps, Turbo's, etc. on older diesels will kill any budget. Petrol in your price range, definitely. For the price of a pump overhaul on the average diesel, you should be able to do a complete engine overhaul on a petrol - no brainer, really.
Like RedL, I also find it weird that the petrol models in this price range are older, with higher mileages recorded. Maybe buyers are coming to their senses and there is a higher demand for the petrol models ?

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Old 14-03-11, 01:14 PM
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Older diesels are worth less because of the fear of high servicing costs...

been like that for a while actually.

I serioulsly don't think that there is much in it when it comes to running costs on older diesels vs petrol....

depends how it's looked after. drive it nicely and it will go forever. drive it flat out all the time and it will pack up. Petrols are not that much different. older mechanical pump models are worse than the new CRD ones though...

On Diesels you get a big bill every so often. Petrols you get lots of bills all the time

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Old 14-03-11, 01:14 PM
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RedLineR: correct, I would rather pay a bit more between tanks than having nightmarish recovery/repair/maintenance invoices.

But thanks Thys, that's the hard reality I am looking for. I think I will make up my mind and go for a Petrol, if I can find one, every dealership is trying to force diesel on me ("it's the future!!@!@")....
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  #7  
Old 14-03-11, 01:17 PM
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Hi Marlonrc,

I would recommend going for the Ford Ranger. I would, seeing that I drive one myself.

There are a lot of opinions on diesel vs petrol.

If you aren't going to tow a 10 ton caravan I would rather go with the diesel.

I enjoy my diesel but I have also enjoyed petrol motors. Each will get you from point A to B.

Most important thing, doesn't matter diesel or petrol, is the way you look after your bakkie.

You must accept that there is going to be maintenance costs and that either diesel or petrol will never be as economical as a Yaris.

I waited quite a while and shopped for months before finding my Ranger.
Some garages out there will sell them high above book price because they know there is quite a demand. These bakkies don't stand on a dealers floor for long.

See if you can't find one with a push bar and spots, canopy and as much extras as possible. This will save you money in the long run.

I also only had a budget of R 130 000. I ended up with a very well looked after 2006 ford ranger d/c with only 119 000km on the clock. I love that bakkie to bits.

All I can say is that I hope you find the right Ranger for you and good luck!

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Old 14-03-11, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
On Diesels you get a big bill every so often. Petrols you get lots of bills all the time
One day, when I have lots of time, I'll go through the relevant forum sections an compile a list of problems related to petrol and diesel, just from posts here on our forum.
And not unrelated stuff, only stuff that petrols and diesels do not have in common. I already know which way it's gonna go, but I want to collect some facts, when I'm bored

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  #9  
Old 14-03-11, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedLineR View Post
One day, when I have lots of time, I'll go through the relevant forum sections an compile a list of problems related to petrol and diesel, just from posts here.
And not unrelated stuff, only stuff that petrols and diesels do not have in common. I already know which way it's gonna go, but I want to collect some facts, when I'm bored
Yeah, I know, Diesel will come out tops.

but it's okay petrol people, we still like you

to be honest - if I was looking at a car with 100 000km on, a well looked after diesel would be fine. at 250 000km, I'd be looking at a petrol motor.. and I'd still rather have a well looked after 250 000km Diesel than a badly looked after 200 000km petrol motor...

depends as well - older diesels had 7500km service intervals modern ones have 20 000km intervals. petrol is 10 000 to 12500km... newer ones are cheaper on maintenance than older ones...

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Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.
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  #10  
Old 14-03-11, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
Older diesels are worth less because of the fear of high servicing costs...
been like that for a while actually.
I serioulsly don't think that there is much in it when it comes to running costs on older diesels vs petrol....
depends how it's looked after. drive it nicely and it will go forever. drive it flat out all the time and it will pack up. Petrols are not that much different. older mechanical pump models are worse than the new CRD ones though...
On Diesels you get a big bill every so often. Petrols you get lots of bills all the time
Apoc, my 11 y/o petrol Jeep has not had one issue that is related to the petrol it runs on. As a matter of fact, I have not spent a cent on anything other than service costs for the engine itself up to the point where the idiots (sorry Sarel )caused the gaskets to blow. I also believe that the cost of the repairs it is currently undergoing would have been substantially higher, if it was a diesel.
If you buy new (or nearly new) and diesel is your thing, go for it by all means. Older diesels will make you cry.

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  #11  
Old 14-03-11, 01:34 PM
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Much responses, and very nice unbiased ones too. I thank you al.
Alot of info and considerations to digest... why oh why is it so hard.
If I go for a diesel, I will probably put away some cash every month as a backstop for repairs *ponder*
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  #12  
Old 14-03-11, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThysleRoux View Post
If you buy new (or nearly new) and diesel is your thing, go for it by all means. Older diesels will make you cry.
A key point. The question is, what constitutes "old". 1995? 2000? 2005? Im asking this for the benefit of future posters with the same questions. When is too much mileage too much, and too old too old? Landy owners call a 1983 series "new" (ok maybe not :P), so it differs from what I can tell.
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  #13  
Old 14-03-11, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThysleRoux View Post
Apoc, my 11 y/o petrol Jeep has not had one issue that is related to the petrol it runs on. As a metter of fact, I have not spent a cent on anything other than service costs for the engine itself up to the point where the idiots (sorry Sarel )caused the gaskets to blow. I also believe that the cost of the repairs it is currently undergoing would have been substantially higher, if it was a diesel.
If you buy new (or nearly new) and diesel is your thing, go for it by all means. Older diesels will make you cry.

they only make you cry when you have to pull out the gearbox

I'm not knocking a petrol at all - almost as good as a diesel and a whole lot better than a bicycle

My previous Colt Tdi gave little problems - timing chain, set of injectors and reset the pump, clutch usual stuff.

as you say - difference between petrol and diesel - I had to buy R1500 worth of injectors and glowplugs. compared to spark plugs for a petrol in the same period... not much in it?

but I looked after it and didn't hammer it, a bad one that cracked it's head from being driven to death would have been worse cost wise...

I've also seen petrol engines hammered to death....

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  #14  
Old 14-03-11, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
Yeah, I know, Diesel will come out tops.

but it's okay petrol people, we still like you

to be honest - if I was looking at a car with 100 000km on, a well looked after diesel would be fine. at 250 000km, I'd be looking at a petrol motor.. and I'd still rather have a well looked after 250 000km Diesel than a badly looked after 200 000km petrol motor...

depends as well - older diesels had 7500km service intervals modern ones have 20 000km intervals. petrol is 10 000 to 12500km... newer ones are cheaper on maintenance than older ones...
Apoc, I cannot believe people on this Forum are still debating petrol and diesel if everyone knows Diesel are by far better option ask Thys he knows
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  #15  
Old 14-03-11, 01:42 PM
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Good point - MArlon, did you have to ask the unanswerable question AGAIN?



debate will never end. at least we all know Jeeps are better than Toyotas....

<<ducks and runs for cover >>

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nobody will ever win the battle of the sexes. there is just too much fraternising with the enemy Henry Kissinger
Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.
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  #16  
Old 14-03-11, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
I've also seen petrol engines hammered to death as well....
With violence you can break off your finger in a dark orifice of you own body as well.
Petrol engines can usually take a lot more abuse than diesels and are cheaper to fix if you break 'em.

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  #17  
Old 14-03-11, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThysleRoux View Post
With violence you can break off your finger in a dark orifice of you own body as well.
Petrol engines can usually take a lot more abuse than diesels and are cheaper to fix if you break 'em.
well... I dunno!!!

I've never broken a diesel, but I have broken a petrol

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nobody will ever win the battle of the sexes. there is just too much fraternising with the enemy Henry Kissinger
Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.
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  #18  
Old 14-03-11, 02:14 PM
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what have I done... at least I can gather good information from it.
At the end, a fist fight between petrol and diesel owners will be the final cut in my choice.
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Old 15-03-11, 08:40 AM
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I've learned two things on this forum. No sorry 3 things:

1 - Diesel vs Petrol: Always a debate
2 - Make of vehicle: Always a debate
3 - Almost all people on this forum will stand by their bakkie. No matter what.

So taking all this into account. What you've done is a good thing.
We can debate - I think that is what the forum is for
We can debate some more - Refer to sentence above.

And we all love our bakkies to bits!!!

I don't think it matters that much which one or what it drives on. As soon as you get onto a dirt road or drive over a klippie which the platkarre can't you will fall in love with your bakkie/Off-road vehicle and never drive anything else ever again.

The Ford Ranger Diesel is the best ever! EVER!!! (Just my opinion of course)

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Old 15-03-11, 02:23 PM
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Theres a 2007 2500td (pre facelift) at a place in Goodwood now for R124k. The rear tyres are done for, and the engine compartment doesnt make it look like the guy cared much, a few holes in the seats. Im not sure if its a good deal, I just drove it (the guy brought it here for a test, and thats admirable). But I don't know what to look for. Anyone up for checking it out for me
*sigh*
PS: I also sold my car now, so im without wheels (haha)
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  #21  
Old 16-03-11, 10:02 AM
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No its not a good deal.
Look around some more.
They are out there.

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Old 01-04-11, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThysleRoux View Post
Apoc, my 11 y/o petrol Jeep has not had one issue that is related to the petrol it runs on. As a matter of fact, I have not spent a cent on anything other than service costs for the engine itself up to the point where the idiots (sorry Sarel )caused the gaskets to blow. I also believe that the cost of the repairs it is currently undergoing would have been substantially higher, if it was a diesel.
If you buy new (or nearly new) and diesel is your thing, go for it by all means. Older diesels will make you cry.


My 13 y/o diesel Frontier has not had any issues, except the usual stuff one gets on any car. I have had my injectors done once (under R3000), my turbo is still original. I've been told that a new turbo for my car would be +- R4000. That's not bad!

I drive around 48000km per year.

Let's say your car does 15L per 100Km (doubt it), that's 6.67km/L. That works out to 7200L per year.

My car does between 8L and 9L per 100Km, that's 11.76km/L. That works out to 4080L per year.

That's a 3120L per year saving in fuel for me! Working at R9.60 per litre of diesel, it's R29952 per year I'm saving on fuel.

So in the 11 years that your car has been around I would have saved R329472 on fuel. because I didn't drive a big petrol.

Don't get me wrong! I love petrol engines! I still own one, and drive it all the time! One day I'll buy a Rubi or a GC like yours. But not while I need to drive so much every month.

Just doesn't make sense!

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  #23  
Old 02-04-11, 08:44 PM
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In general, petrol and diesel cost about the same to service, per service. The diesel needs more oil, the petrol needs spark plugs. Both need filters.
In general, diesels need servicing more often, but the Fords are both at 10k km
In general, diesel injectors need replacing at great cost, but the Ford injectors are cheap and last forever anyway.
Diesel pumps are also pricey but on the Ford are also very reliable.
So the diesel maintenance cost argument doesn't hold water for the 2.5

Turbos if abused can be destroyed in a very short time but if treated well (started up and shut down properly) will last indefinitely

My Ranger when sold last year with 130k on the clock had had nothing but a few glow plugs, batteries and light bulbs.

If you do want a 4l, wait another month for the second big petrol price increase and the prices will plummet.

I always used to laugh- I drove my 2.5 everywhere at 120 and never saw any 4l Rangers on the road- they were all doing 120 as well so nobody overtook anyone. Every time the petrol price jumped I found I passed a 4l every 5 minutes, doing 80 in the slow lane.

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Old 02-04-11, 09:27 PM
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I drive a 2.5 T/D D/C Ford Montana.

120 000 on the odometer.

I absolutely LOVE my bakkie!

That's my biased opinion.
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Old 03-04-11, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanatic
I drive a 2.5 T/D D/C Ford Montana.

120 000 on the odometer.

I absolutely LOVE my bakkie!

That's my biased opinion.
Ditto except for the Montana part.
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  #26  
Old 03-04-11, 07:02 PM
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Die probleem is met die forum is , hy het baie lede. Dit maak nie saak oor watse voertuig jy advies vra nie , jy sal altyd mense kry wat se dis n wonderlike voertuig. Al is die voertuig in iemand se agter jaart aanmekaar gesit met bloudraad , dit is die beste bakkie op die pad. So waar kry jy die regte advies , ek het altyd gedink by groot maatskappye wat enjins oordoen , maar ek weet nie meer nie. Good luck !!!
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Old 03-04-11, 07:10 PM
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And at the same time we are not scared to say if a particular model or make is bad or has many problems.
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Old 03-04-11, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagu13 View Post
In general, petrol and diesel cost about the same to service, per service. The diesel needs more oil, the petrol needs spark plugs. Both need filters.
In general, diesels need servicing more often, but the Fords are both at 10k km
In general, diesel injectors need replacing at great cost, but the Ford injectors are cheap and last forever anyway.
Diesel pumps are also pricey but on the Ford are also very reliable.
So the diesel maintenance cost argument doesn't hold water for the 2.5

Turbos if abused can be destroyed in a very short time but if treated well (started up and shut down properly) will last indefinitely
I agree in general, as I can't comment on a specific model.
I've started to have a look around for some studies or averages of maintenance costs of petrol vs diesel.
And everything pretty much shows that petrols and diesels cost about the same to service.

Where the difference comes in, is in what's often called "rebuild cost".
Basically the when-something-goes-wrong-cost.
And that's where turbo diesels suffer.
Here's an example for instance, written by a member of the South African Guild of Motoring Journalists
http://www.carfind.co.za/news/articl...?articleid=174

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Old 03-04-11, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan "Bos Toe" Brand View Post
And at the same time we are not scared to say if a particular model or make is bad or has many problems.
Dit is nie my ondrvinding nie. Ek het agter gekom sodra daar iets negatief van enige voertuig gese word , dan is jy besig met " brandbassing " en jy word uitgemaak as die duiwel homself.
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Old 03-04-11, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedLineR View Post
Where the difference comes in, is in what's often called "rebuild cost".
Basically the when-something-goes-wrong-cost.
And that's where turbo diesels suffer.

http://www.carfind.co.za/news/articl...?articleid=174
Agreed completely.
Except once again this particular engine is an anomaly, costing under R20k new from Ford.

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V8 Defender 90 Lexus conversion. Spitronics management. 33" KL71 on 15" beadlocks, 2" Terrafirma lift, Terrafirma RTC steering damper. Ashcroft ATB's, 3.75 ratios, Disco TC ratios.
V8 Shamrock Cobra 350. Spitronics management.
Series 2A 88" pickup- the next project
BMW 330d AC Schnitzer chipped and lowered
BMW 330d remapped. Couldn't tolerate a standard car.
Corsa (full fat) lowered and stiffened
Launch diagnostics

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  #31  
Old 03-04-11, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MORNE CLAASSEN View Post
Die probleem is met die forum is , hy het baie lede. Dit maak nie saak oor watse voertuig jy advies vra nie , jy sal altyd mense kry wat se dis n wonderlike voertuig. Al is die voertuig in iemand se agter jaart aanmekaar gesit met bloudraad , dit is die beste bakkie op die pad. So waar kry jy die regte advies , ek het altyd gedink by groot maatskappye wat enjins oordoen , maar ek weet nie meer nie. Good luck !!!

I did mention that I was biased.
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