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  #1  
Old 17-01-11, 10:27 AM
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Default 2.7 CRD Injector questions


I need some advice please. My no. 1 injector is leaking and will need to be replaced a.s.a.p. Could someone please tell me firstly, is this a job that I can do by myself, removing the injector and putting in the new one or will there be problems with the ECU etc?

Secondly, would a second hand (working injector) be a good idea or do I need to buy new, then, does anybody know how much currently for 1 injector and where?

Lastly, can they be serviced or fixed as I am under the impression that they can't?

Would appreciate any and all help in this regard.

Phil
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  #2  
Old 17-01-11, 12:43 PM
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HOwzit Phil

Im not sure if its a diy job. Maybe if its just no 1 it could be but I know that to get to injector no 5 you either need to drop the motor or make a whole in the firewall or in my case they did both !

As far as the injectors go I would say don't go for a second hand injector, unless you can have it tested to verify that its not leaking and working within spec.

I also heard / read that the injectors cannot be refurbished but I had all the injectors on my jeep done by the Bosch agents on Main Reef Road in jhb.

They refurbished the injectors by installing new tips on them at a fraction of the cost of new injectors.

This was done about 6 months ago and my jeep is really running very nicely.

The bosch guys also showed me the tests they did on the injectors before and after and they have all the tools to do bench tests.

If you are in Jhb - J&M Diesel (Bosch Agents) 011 474 8955 speak to Hannes Jnr/Snr.

Cheers
Chris

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  #3  
Old 17-01-11, 12:50 PM
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Firstly - dont try mixing injectors - they have a value stamped on them that has to match and the settings in the ECU are set according to the values on the injectors. Can only do if you got the DRBIII scantool.

Second ... Any Bosch diesel service garage can overhaul the injectors - they fit new nozzles and then pressure test them.

In what way is the injector leaking = ie. how do you know its leaking... what does the "leaking" bit mean? If its just the copper gasket sealing the injector and the combustion chamber then thats an easy DIY fix - especcially if it is No:1 unit = I did this myself...

Just remeber that the bolts securing the injectors are stretch bolts and are for one use only - need to replace the bolt. The tightening sequence is also very specific for this bolt.
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Old 17-01-11, 01:01 PM
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Thanks for the replies

Jeepers, it is leaking like puddle of diesel in injector seat leaking, starting "black death" leaking, so where on the injector the leak is I don't know, will probably have to get Bosch Diesel Centre to look at it
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Old 17-01-11, 01:02 PM
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Chris

What did the service of the injectors cost you if I may ask?
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Old 17-01-11, 01:16 PM
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Hi Phil

Flip I cant remember exactly I will need to go and pull out that invoice but the whole job was about R7000.00 all in.

That was all the labour, parts, vat, calibration etc etc.

I see you in Pietersburg, but it may be worth giving Hannes a call. I found them to be helpfull and they did a good job and I think (hope) it was reasonable. They know the jeep diesel motors well.

Let me know if you need an accurate cost on each injector, I will go and pull out that invoice quickly.

Cheers
Chris

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Old 17-01-11, 01:22 PM
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Hi Chris, thanks a lot, if it is at all possible, I would love the exact costs, I will take my vehicle to Pietersburg Diesel Hydraulic (Bosch) as they have given me good service on my Jeep and they also seem to be pretty clued up on the 2.7 Merc motor.

If they are clueless or unreasonable (compared to the prices you paid), I can always arrange to try and get to JHB to have it done there.

Thanks a lot.
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Old 17-01-11, 01:25 PM
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Ok

I phoned them quickly and they say approximately R 1000.00 ex VAT per injector to refurbish one. Which I think is reasonable

So for 5 it will R 5000.00 ex VAT and he says if he does the work it will be approximately R 7500.00 / R 8000.00 ex VAT.

Please note this is just a ball park figure and I would suggest that you just phone them and discuss with them directly. I have no interest in their business but can confirm that I was happy with the service received from them.

I hope this helps you.

Cheers
Chris

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  #9  
Old 17-01-11, 01:34 PM
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Sorry just to clarify when I say if he does the work I mean that you take the jeep to them and they take everything apart etc !

Cheers
Chris

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  #10  
Old 17-01-11, 01:54 PM
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Thanks Chris, I understand it as such. Currently it seems that only the first (infront) injector is giving troubles, but I will have them run a diagnostic on the rest, hopefully they will all be fine for now.
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  #11  
Old 18-01-11, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeepers101 View Post
Firstly - dont try mixing injectors - they have a value stamped on them that has to match and the settings in the ECU are set according to the values on the injectors. Can only do if you got the DRBIII scantool.
Second ... Any Bosch diesel service garage can overhaul the injectors - they fit new nozzles and then pressure test them.
In what way is the injector leaking = ie. how do you know its leaking... what does the "leaking" bit mean? If its just the copper gasket sealing the injector and the combustion chamber then thats an easy DIY fix - especcially if it is No:1 unit = I did this myself...
Just remeber that the bolts securing the injectors are stretch bolts and are for one use only - need to replace the bolt. The tightening sequence is also very specific for this bolt.
I agree there is a good chance that the copper washer is leaking. I did mine on my Cherokee as well. I would check this as a first measure.
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  #12  
Old 18-01-11, 10:04 AM
JacquesJeep JacquesJeep is offline
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Agree with kevjones, they should last about 250000km's have it checked first!
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  #13  
Old 18-01-11, 01:09 PM
Jeepers101 Jeepers101 is offline
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from JEG diesel - Bosch Cape Town = 03/2010

nozzles each 950.46 x 5, seal kits 395.60, balls 75.00, inlet washers 74.00, base washers 91.20, seals 88.32, labour repair injectors 2900.00, labour remove/refit injectors 2320.00, diagnostic test 310.00, compression test 350.00, sundries 145.00

grand total = 10550.96 + 1477.13 VAT gave a total of 12028.09

to have my '02 Jeep 2.7 CRD with 189980 klm's injectors overhauled.
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  #14  
Old 18-01-11, 02:04 PM
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Thanks for the feedback on this, will have the copper washer checked out first and keep you updated.
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Old 18-01-11, 09:04 PM
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IMHO - if you are taking the risk of removing the injectors, replace them with new injectors, new copper seals and very important new hold down bolts. I am just saying that because I had SAC "refurbish" my injectors, that was April last year, I have spent R63 000 since and I still don't have a running engine. If whoever is doing the refurbishment does not know what they are doing the injectors will be buggered. Then if they put it back using the same bolts, the stretched TTY bolts will turn into the water jackets below and that will cost you a new cylinder head, or as lucky as I was, haha, some of the black lava crud made its way in between a valve and it seat and when they (that either be SAC or the stealers - impossible to prove which) started the engine the valve got imbedded in the piston and there went my engine. Anyway had the engine reconditioned within a month, that reconditioned engine lasted 1 week, then sent up the whole vehicle up to the guys in Krugersdorp who rebuilt the engine (at least they paid half the transport cost). That was 18 August, its still there, being rebuild, I am assured as I am every week, that it will be finnished this week....

Wherever you have whatever done, make sure that you are using a centre that subscribes themselves to the RMI, that way you won't have to go through the whole, lengthy and expensive court route if the guys make a stuff up.

Good luck!

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  #16  
Old 19-01-11, 07:37 AM
Chrisv Chrisv is offline
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Eisch Lucky Im sorry to hear about your hassles and that story is enough to give me some serious nightmares !!!

Flip good luck I hope they get this resolved soon !

Cheers
Chris

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  #17  
Old 19-01-11, 08:05 AM
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Thanks Lucky

I followed that thread of yours and learned a few lessons there, sorry that they had to be at your expense, but I will be very careful of how I go about having people work on my vehicle in the future, even so much as telling them up front what not to do, making sure they are RMI and not taking away a vehicle from them if I am not completely satisfied with the work they did.

Again, sorry for your misfortune, but thanks for sharing with the rest of us so we can try to avoid the same thing happening.

Regards
Phil
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  #18  
Old 19-01-11, 08:55 AM
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Thats why I love this forum, we can learn so much from each other and there is always support. My GC 4.7 is getting delivered tommorow, won't be able to sleep tonight

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76 Jeep CJ6 (283 Chevy V8 3" Lift)
02 Jeep WJ V8 4.7 HO Overland (2" Lift, Tom Woods DC DS, 235/85R16 KL71's)
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  #19  
Old 19-01-11, 10:16 AM
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You sure are a Lucky Luke with the 4.7 on the way. I may also be looking at adding the 4.7 to the family this year, but we will first have to see what the finances does, getting married, moving into new house, maintenance on the 2.7, so budget is running tight now. Lets hope.
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  #20  
Old 19-01-11, 12:15 PM
Jeepers101 Jeepers101 is offline
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oh man I'm so glad I got rid of my jeep.... - I was heading down Luckys road but seems I jumped out in time and some other poor "Jeep lover" can take over the dark pit!!!
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  #21  
Old 31-01-11, 09:07 AM
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Alright

Dropped off the Jeep at Bosch Diesel Hydraulic Pietersburg this morning, they will pull the injector and change the washer, clean up etc. The guy there is sure it's not a big deal and said it shouldn't cost to much, they will tend to that today as well as a few other niggles I asked them to look at.

Will update as soon as I have my baby back.
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Old 31-01-11, 04:01 PM
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Picked up just now, leaking injector fixed, cost R 320.00. Now we just need to find out what is making the motor cut out when I give it a decent amount of power. Error shows low rail pressure, will take it back later this week and have it stand there for a day or two.

Any ideas why the Jeep is doing this, we can't seem to find the problem?
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  #23  
Old 12-02-11, 06:05 PM
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MY 2.7crd was battling to start, took it to jeep, turned out the Nr3 injector was leaking, They blocked it off and it started first time.

Quoted me R5k for a new injector so i told them to leave it, They put my injector back in and now it seems to be starting perfect every time

Could it just have been loose or not seated properly, or should i get it refurbed? Any thoughts on this?
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Old 12-02-11, 07:31 PM
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If it aint broke, don't fix it!
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Old 13-02-11, 09:09 AM
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Surely it has to have been something wrong cause it would take ages to start but not it starts straight away? Can injectors clog up with much or loosen themselves?

Would like to know why now its seems fine?
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Old 13-02-11, 09:23 AM
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Its not that they block up, its that they wear internally. When cranking those CDI motors they need about 150bar to start. If an injector is worn, it by passes all the pressure to the return line resulting in a non starter. Another common fault on those is the teflon seals on the pressure control valve. Its sits on the far end of the rail and controls the amount of pressure in the rail. When the seals wear it has the same symptoms as a worn injector, it returns all the built up pressure to the tank.

The hold down bolts are stretch bolts, The torque is 7nm stretch 90 deg. Make sure the thread in the head is clean and the injector seat. There is a special grease that needs to be applied to the injectors before putting them back. Its like an anti seize compaond, helps with the removal on the injectors when they fail. The black carbon that builds up is what happens when the copper seal fails, it can be heard when the motor is running. It makes a chuffing noise. Quick test to do when the injectors have been re-fitted is to pour some water over the injector, if there are bubbles then its not sealing properly. I've changed probably over a thousand of these injectors in Mercs, the first lot that came out were shockingly bad but as time went on they got them better. Still not perfect but okay. The new motors with piezo injectors seem to hold up alot better.
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Old 13-02-11, 09:55 AM
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Thanks for the help,

What are your thoughts on doing a refurb on the injector? Any good or should i replace with a new one at a much higher cost?

I am still confused as to why it is starting perfectly now after the mechanic put my injector back in that was leaking? Surely a leaking injector is a leaking injector and simply pulling it out and putting it back in wouldn't fix the problem, but it has, or at least it seems that way for now

That is why i was thinking it was not seated properly or something?
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  #28  
Old 14-02-11, 07:57 AM
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You can save a bit of money by buying the injector straight from a Bosch agent like Diesel Electric, I can't remmember what they charged me, was something like R4000 from them. You can also try Alan Black (Pty Ltd), they are a Bosch agent. These centres can do the fitment for you as well, if you don't want to try it yourself. Personally I would replace with a new one rather then having it rebuilt, then you know its perfect. What can go wrong if you don't replace, well at a stage the leakback can get so bad that the engine won't start as enough pressure can not be built up in the rail. Then there is the risk that the injector might overfuel if the tip is leaking...

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02 Jeep WJ V8 4.7 HO Overland (2" Lift, Tom Woods DC DS, 235/85R16 KL71's)
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  #29  
Old 15-05-13, 10:26 AM
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Default 2003 Jeep GC 2.7 CRD

Hi Guys...I am new at this. My Jeep starts fine when it is cold but as soon as the engine warmed up it cuts out if I apply full power. Then I have to pull over and put the car and wait a couple of seconds then it starts fine. It drives fine when I dont put my foot down however when the engine is cold it works fine. Could this be Injector related or Fuel pump/filter?
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  #30  
Old 16-05-13, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dylanwoest View Post
Hi Guys...I am new at this. My Jeep starts fine when it is cold but as soon as the engine warmed up it cuts out if I apply full power. Then I have to pull over and put the car and wait a couple of seconds then it starts fine. It drives fine when I dont put my foot down however when the engine is cold it works fine. Could this be Injector related or Fuel pump/filter?
Sounds to me like some type of fuel pressure problem or not enough fuel coming through on full power, causing the engine to cut out.

Had a similar problem on a previous Corsal diesel of mine when the battery got hurt after a jump start. Car would run fine as long as I was using small throttle opening but would cut out as soon as I gave full power. Seems like the damaged battery could not handle the load when i used a bigger throttle opening. This would result is a the fuel pump not able to keep the pressure and the engine then cut out. Ended up replacing the battery and resolved issue.

Not saying it is the battery but I think it will must be fuel pressure related or so.
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Old 16-05-13, 12:20 PM
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the 2.7 has a mechanical low pressure and high pressure pump - maybe having the high pressure pump tested and repaired if necessary (usually they just replace the seal) by a bosch agent like Diesel electric would be a good start.
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Old 20-05-13, 01:42 PM
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Thanks for the feedback guys. You are awesome! I will have the pump/battery checked out and keep you up to date on the outcome. Cheers!
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