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  #1  
Old 06-08-10, 10:31 AM
IndianaJones IndianaJones is offline
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Question 2002-2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee 2.7 CRD Opinions

Hi

Whats your views on the 2002-2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee 2.7 CRD?

How does it compare to a 2000-2006 Mitsubishi Pajero 3.2 DiD, or 1998-2002 Toyota Prado KZ-TE? Is the Jeep just as reliable?

Which parts break on these cars?

I'm looking for a decent 5-seater sub-R175k SUV that can do some real off-roading, as well as being a mom's taxi.

I do not want a double cab.

Thank you
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  #2  
Old 06-08-10, 11:14 AM
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Megagustodon Megagustodon is offline
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Just do it!!

Jokes aside, after doing a huge amount of research myself, i settled on the Jeep Grand Cherokee, also after considering the Pajero (it was not an easy process I can assure you. However, despite having been a Pajero fan for a long while and having used them to great effect in extremely rough terrain for work, I decided to go the Jeep route and am very happy.

My criteria for selection were as follows:
1. Diesel
2. Automatic
3. cruise control and mods cons
4. excellent off-road capability
5. budget of under R200k
6. mileage of under 100k km

The jeep covers all of these and my reasons were as follows:
1. The Mercedes engine used in the 2.7 CRD is by all accounts an excellent engine and, provided you maintain it well, will last a good while. The engine provides roughly the same power and torque as the Pajero (unless you get the High Output version in which case the Jeep is significantly stronger)
2. The Mercedes derived automatic 5-speed gearbox in the Jeep is very smooth and has well spaced ratios for cruising, commuting and low speed use offroad. In addition, the Quadra-Drive system is comparable to the Pajero Super Select system when it comes to the 4x4 system. Also, the Jeep has dual (front and back) limited slip Dana differentials allowing excellent grip control and negates the need for lockable diffs (unless you're looking at EXTREMELY serious off-roading). Furthermore, in 4L, the Quadra-Drive system locks the central transfer case differential in the same way as the Pajero central "diff-lock"
3. The GC is very, very comfortable and has arguably the best seats I've ever come across outside of an old Mercedes. Also, depending on the model (i.e. Limited or Overland) all the mod cons are covered and regardless of spec they come standard with an excellent climate control system and cruise control.
4. The Jeep Grand Cherokee has better clearances than a Fortuner and still has a solid front axle so provides excellent 4x4 ability (having done a vast amount of offroading for work in other vehicles, an SFA is really the best way to go wrt 4x4 ability and articulation).
5. and 6. from my experience, any Pajero for less than R200k will be at least a 2002/3 model and have more than 150k km. I paid R175k for my Jeep with 98k km and a full 2-year unlimited mileage warranty. The Jeep provides excellent value for money - but is most worthwhile if you intend to keep it for at least 5 years or more due to depreciation.

Things to look out for (thanks to the excellent fellow on this forum are as follows):
-as with any vehicle, make sure it has a complete service history and get it checked with an AA 101 point check or similar. The servicing doesn't necesarily have to have been done by the stealer as place like American SUV etc provide excellent service and have a wealth of specialist knowledge on Jeeps.
-check the injectors under the engine cover, if there is any black residue around the seat of the injector, get them to replace the seals immediately (available from Bosch as a kit)
-make sure you get a warranty that covers injector replacement as with bad quality fuel they can fail at 150k km or so. By most accounts, fitting a UDF filter virtually eliminates this problem and allows your injectors to last significantly longer
-listen for any whines in the gearbox and diffs, and check that the diffs do not bind, this may indicate incorrect servicing procedure with the diffs as they need a unique friction modifier additive (very easy to get hold of and the guys on this forum will provide advice on how to add it)
-check that the climate control works in all positions and at all speeds, sometime the blend doors can fail which are costly to get at and replace.

Thats all for the moment but I'm sure the stalwarts will be along soon enough to give you more reasons to come over the dark side! All the best and good luck!
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  #3  
Old 06-08-10, 12:57 PM
Kampi Kampi is offline
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Hi Indiana,

I cannot agree more with Mega. We are on our 3rd Jeep Grand Cherokee. Bought the first one when they came to SA in 2000 (3.1 Diesel), then a 2002 model and now a 2005 CRD Black Pearl.
Go for the Jeep!!
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  #4  
Old 06-08-10, 01:53 PM
Jeepers101 Jeepers101 is offline
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jeepers - what a question... and in the same post as the other unmentionables - yeeaaaghhhh!!!

the 2002 G/C 2.7 CRD is the best looking G/C. The ones before that look like skinny boys toys and the ones after that look like fat old men!

1999 - 2004 was the year the G/C really grew up!
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  #5  
Old 06-08-10, 02:44 PM
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You can't go wrong with a Jeep, just make sure its been looked after well and you wont regret coming over to the dark side!
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  #6  
Old 06-08-10, 03:11 PM
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Megagustodon Megagustodon is offline
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Oh, and another thing...

The 3.0 KZ-TE toyota engine is a bit of a donkey and puts out less than 100kW (Power Output: 96kw@3600, Torque: 343nm@2000 actually). This is not even comparable to the Pajero (Power Output: 121kw@3800, Torque: 373nm@2000) or the Jeep GC (Power Output: 120kw@4000, Torque: 400nm@1800).

btw, you'll notice that the Jeep gets the top (higher) torque even lower down the rev range than the Pajero. And if you can get a late 2004 or 2005 Overland or Black Pearl with the Hight Output motor, the numbers look even better with Power Output: 150kw@4000 and Torque: 450nm@1800.

As an aside, the 2.7 CRD engine is the same one (with minor changes to the sump etc) used in the Mercedes Sprinter busses which go like poo off a hot chrome shovel and last for ever... This partially what made me go for it as the spares are for the most part interchangeable and any mercedes dealer in the SADC region will have spares for the engine.

Have a look at the Toyota section to get a feel for the KZ-TE engine. It may be dependable and reasonably bulletproof, but you will hate to commute with it due to the lack of grunt, and forget about towing anything at anywhere above 100km/h. Also, you are extremely unlikely to get a Prado with less than 100k km for less than R250k...

JM2CW...
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  #7  
Old 06-08-10, 05:32 PM
IndianaJones IndianaJones is offline
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Thanks for all the replies guys, I really appreciate it.

I'm really not sure what to expect from the Jeep. I grew up in a Toyota family, and naturally looked to the Prado first. But as you mentioned the KZ-TE Prado is underpowered.

Then searched Gumtree for alternatives, and found the Pajero and the GC.
I have a friend, that has only good things to say about his Pajero, but in my price range they do have higher mileage than the Jeep.

And frankly I do prefer the GC's looks.

I'm still a bit concerned with problem areas, like the injectors seals, diff additives and the fitment of a UDF filter? But I suppose that's nothing a bit more research won't cure.

Overall your replies has gotten me really excited, I think the search for a GC is now really on. Thanks again

Anyone know of good Jeep specialists in the Western Cape?
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  #8  
Old 09-08-10, 09:11 AM
JacquesJeep JacquesJeep is offline
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The pajero have more space though, but apart from minor issues with the GC (they have never left me stuck) it is an awesome vehicle and very comfortable!
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  #9  
Old 09-08-10, 10:11 AM
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Megagustodon Megagustodon is offline
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No worries IndianaJ,

I also grew up with Toyota and Isuzu so was a bit of a pull to leave the brand. However, having spent a huge amount of time researching (I'm like Scrooge when it comes to spending large amounts of money...) I really feel that the Jeep GC is the best value for money.

As far as your concerns, the diff additives are very easily available and cheap - also a huge amount of info on servicing the WJ is available on this forum and online. Also, the UDF filter is recomended for absolutely any direct injection diesel engine (including the Paj and Prado) - as a reference (*AFAIK) the new 3.0 D4D injectors tend to fail at about 150k to 160k km too...

All the best and good luck with your search!
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  #10  
Old 09-08-10, 11:16 AM
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What is also impressive about the 2.7 CRD compared to the KZTE and the 3.2DiD is the fuel consumption. You can get approx 10.5l/100km in town and comfortably 8.5l/100km on the open road.
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  #11  
Old 21-08-10, 11:25 AM
IndianaJones IndianaJones is offline
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Thanks for all the feedback guys.

I've found a 2003 GC Overland on Gumtree, it has been advertised for quite some time. Why hasn't anyone snapped it up? Does anyone know anything about this particular GC?

It's a 2003 Model, 140 000km, R147 500

The link:
http://capetown.gumtree.co.za/c-Cars...AdIdZ218478058
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  #12  
Old 21-08-10, 01:32 PM
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It's a nice looking vehicle, the only fault i see is it is a private sale, at least at a reputable garage you get a warranty, when i bought mine i took it back after 3 weeks with a small list of faults to be rectified including the aircon after i had driven it a couple of thousand km's to test and feel everything. If you are going to buy private the price must be lower, as after you take it over, you will be on your own with any costly problems you encounter. Look on www.autotrader.co.za there is always lots, I obtained mine a couple of years ago through autotrader. i see with your budget you can also look at the later model with the 3.0l crd merc engine. Hope you find what you are looking for, take your time, test a few to get a feel of whats good and not good.
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  #13  
Old 21-08-10, 04:34 PM
Teddiebeer Teddiebeer is offline
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I bought my first Jeep recently after I had two Merc ML's (2000 270CDI and 2000 430). I bought a 2002 GC CRD with FSH and 204000km on the clock. Lovely vehicle. I have it for about two months now and the check engine light came on just after I bought it. Last week the Airbag, Safety belt, Brake and ABS lights came on on the instrument panel. Soon after this the car went into limp mode (2nd gear only), indicators stopped working, A/C and fans stopped working, speedo not working and the starter won't turn. Error codes P0340, 0620, 0702 and 1270 displayed on the odometer. Is there something I can do or is this a job for the Jeep workshop?
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Old 21-08-10, 06:00 PM
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Hi, Teddiebeer! Try and trace the fault according to the fault codes first. You should find that P0340 for example is one that alwas pops up because of some other fault. To me it sounds like you might have a bad battery/charging system problem. These are brilliant vehicles, but very dependant on decent battery voltage. Also check all the connections/plugs in and around your fuse box(under the bonnet) and ECU.
Good luck! Keep us posted.
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  #15  
Old 21-08-10, 07:00 PM
IndianaJones IndianaJones is offline
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Thanks julian

What would be a decent offer for this GC?
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  #16  
Old 21-08-10, 10:59 PM
julian julian is offline
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Indiana,
I would probably offer no more than R130,000 including a favorable full AA inspection and a COR certificate supplied by the current owner. Even though it looks very nice i feel it is over priced especially as it is a private sale. R147,500 in my opinion is a reputable car dealers price where a trade in or a discount would be accepted, and you would also get some type of warranty and peace of mind included. I suggest you also find out what the trade price is (just go in any car sales dealer and ask them) as this is a truer reflection of the price to pay privately (this is the max a garage will usually pay anyway so why should you pay more) and not the Retail price. Probably the price is the reason it has not sold yet, so now the owner my be willing to look at realistic offers.
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  #17  
Old 23-08-10, 01:19 PM
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Megagustodon Megagustodon is offline
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Hi Indiana,

I second everything Julian said... BUT, it does look like a fantastic vehicle and the wording of the ad suggests a diligent and educated person - i.e. the type who would look after his/her vehicle to get the best out of it.

And the price is good for an Overland with that mileage.
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  #18  
Old 30-08-10, 07:52 PM
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Hi Indiana,

I saw the vehicle ,just after I bought mine, driven by a lady. I think it is a close to fare price.

The other option is to have a dealership broker the deal which means that you can have an extended motor warranty added on condition that the vehicle has a full service history. (The dealers normally charge a fee to broker the deal but it does give the option to buy an extended motor Warranty)

Give us an update?
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  #19  
Old 21-09-10, 11:05 PM
Teddiebeer Teddiebeer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KobusM View Post
Hi, Teddiebeer! Try and trace the fault according to the fault codes first. You should find that P0340 for example is one that alwas pops up because of some other fault. To me it sounds like you might have a bad battery/charging system problem. These are brilliant vehicles, but very dependant on decent battery voltage. Also check all the connections/plugs in and around your fuse box(under the bonnet) and ECU.
Good luck! Keep us posted.
Hi KobusM. Cost me a bit but the problem is solved. I replaced the Raylite 658D battery (brand new) with a battery I bought from Jeep (R1600). This did not solve the problem. Took it Jeep in Centurion and got an initial quote for R80,000.. yes R80,000. This was to replace everything that showed up on the fault codes: 3 control units and a couple of sensors etc. After I told them to park the car under the closest tree and leave it there for the birds.. the quote reduced to R50,000. Maybe they didn't understand the story about the tree. After I explained to them about serial bus systems and the possibility that a damaged wire could be responsible for all the fault codes and the fact they can't "read" the respective control units, they started looking. Two days later they found the damaged wire under the dashboard and fixed it. This and replacement of the camsensor (<R2500) solved the problem. I must congratulated CJD Centurion with their patience with my impatience. They updated me about twice daily on progress. My next service will be with them!
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  #20  
Old 22-09-10, 09:08 AM
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allan.cawood allan.cawood is offline
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Hey IndianaJones,

My buddy is selling his 2.7 CRD For Sale

Give him a call, he will tell you everything you want to know about the Jeep, he was the one that convinced me to buy a Jeep. I would buy it, but I love my V8 too much.

I know he has recently done the injectors and service.

Tell him Allan sent you.
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