Returning 2nd hand vehicle?

[john_ysbeer]

This vehicle is in fact legal. Was imported before that law came into effect. It also was paid in cash by yours truly without any form of financing.

Is the law then written to only assist people who are using financing agreements through a bank? It is strange...

Have already written these guys a long letter outlining the exact sequence of events leading up to today....Maybe I should go and talk to my friend the lawyer. He is incidently not crooked!

[Dave Faddel]

John, the law is not written to protect the end user, that's for sure. A few years ago I had a very similar problem. When I approached the dealer he was simply not interested in helping. No problem thought I, I will go to Wesbank and let them help as they had financed the vehicle. Wesbank's response was simply, it's your vehicle sort it out, they were not prepared to help in any way. at this I got up (I was in the managers office), left the keys on his desk and said he must repossess the vehicle as I was not going to pay even my first installment. Needless to say that a few hours later the dealer phoned and said he had collected the vehicle and would repair any faults. This was however done on the (really) cheap and I was never happy with the vehicle, the first opportunity that came along I sold the piece of junk. If I was in your shoes I would be sitting in my lawyers office already this is going to be your only hope, whichever way this goes be sure that you are going to loose a lot of money.

[mvcoller]

John,

If it was imported earlier (my friend's one came into SA in 2001 and was an illegal import) it can still be an illegal import. Tell the dealer he must get you documentary proof that customs and import duty was paid on the vehicle.

The law states that the seller must return all monies paid by the seller, including interest on the capital and that the vehicle will be forfeighted to the state. If your dealer bought it from someone else, the chain is followed back to the original seller, every seller having to pay back the person he sold to.

You could end up paying back the selling price etc to the person you sell it to one day!!!

[Randy]

Who is the dealer / person? So we can avoid them like the PLAQUE in future!

[Andre]

If it is the Cruiser in his signature then it may have been imported by Table Bay Motors in Paarden Eiland. I have seen them advertising Cruiser models not sold by Toyota SA.

[bostoe]

Hi John

All I can say is : Sterkte en neem drastiese aksie!

Seems to me that you've been taken for rides since you arrived back!

Bostoe

[john_ysbeer]

Andre.. so skerp soo 'n graad een se potlood! Ja dit is oorspronklik deur Table Bay ingebring...Ek het NIE die kar by hulle gekoop nie. Wag maar vir later, ek sal waarskynlik op 'n stadium die naam van die dealer noem..Die ouens in Roodepoort kan maar rustig slaap...

Bostoe..as mens ander mense vertrou dan sal iemand jou iewers bykom.. Dis net baie moeilik vir my om dit te leer...

My prokureur se dis uit en uit bedrog, en ek moet besluit of dit die moeite werd is om die saak te laat loop. My swaer reken die SA inhoud van die kar is baie na aan nul...dus is ek gebogger as dit kom by die regmaakslag...

[RedLineR]

Wel, bedrog is nice! Dis nie 'n siviele saak nie, maar krimineel.
So dis dan so maklik as SAP toe gaan en 'n saak van bedrog te gaan lê.

Ander, meer wetgeleerdes kan my hier reghelp.
Ek sou nie bother met onkoste vir 'n prok nie. Gaan stel sommer jou saak self. As jy verloor, verloor jy niks. As jy wen, score jy.
As jy prok onkostes het verloor jy big time as jy verloor, en verloor anyways selfs al wen jy.

[bostoe]

John, lykmy daar is nie soveel moegoes in Kanada nie!?

Ek persoonlik vind dit baie sleg dat mens doodeenvoudig mense nie meer kan vertrou nie. Ons goedgelowigheid kan mens duur te staan kom! As mens self nie 'n krimineel en 'n bull#$%$# is nie, dan sukkel mens om op daardie frekwensie in te skakel.

Hierdie saak is 'n "matter of principle"! Ry hulle tot by Daantjie in die kalwerhok! As ons nie die tipe mense teë gaan nie, loop hulle net die volgende ou in!

Bostoe

[john_ysbeer]

Vroeg volgende week neem ek die motor terug na die "dealer". EK sal dit daa rlos to ek my geld terug het uit hulle uit. Dis die raad wat ek van ander handelaars gekry het.

Ek het belowe om die ouens se naam hier te publiseer, as ek nie gou 'joy' kry nie sodat julle kan katvoet loop vir hierdie ouens.

Dealer: Autohaven Hermanus.
Eienaar: Ian Wiid

Julle is gewaarsku.

[Randy]

Originally Posted by john_ysbeer

Andre.. so skerp soo 'n graad een se potlood! Ja dit is oorspronklik deur Table Bay ingebring...Ek het NIE die kar by hulle gekoop nie. Wag maar vir later, ek sal waarskynlik op 'n stadium die naam van die dealer noem..Die ouens in Roodepoort kan maar rustig slaap...

Bostoe..as mens ander mense vertrou dan sal iemand jou iewers bykom.. Dis net baie moeilik vir my om dit te leer...

My prokureur se dis uit en uit bedrog, en ek moet besluit of dit die moeite werd is om die saak te laat loop. My swaer reken die SA inhoud van die kar is baie na aan nul...dus is ek gebogger as dit kom by die regmaakslag...

THATS NO LIE!!! parts, if you can get them will cost a fortune, labour will be double ( as a matter of principle) to urge people not to buy imports.

YOU will NOT be able to sell the vehicle easliy. may be wrong but i don't think you can get finance on a GREY import

Good luck and DO NOT back down.

[thabogrobler]

Originally Posted by john_ysbeer

Vroeg volgende week neem ek die motor terug na die "dealer". EK sal dit daa rlos to ek my geld terug het uit hulle uit. Dis die raad wat ek van ander handelaars gekry het.

Ek het belowe om die ouens se naam hier te publiseer, as ek nie gou 'joy' kry nie sodat julle kan katvoet loop vir hierdie ouens.

Dealer: Autohaven Hermanus.
Eienaar: Ian Wiid

Julle is gewaarsku.

Mmmmm...Het ook al so paatjie geloop met 'n dealer, moes bietjie nasty raak, maar hulle het toe die kar terug gekoop op die einde.

Kontak details vir die skobbejakke?

[AJR]

Cancel the purchase on the basis of material misrepresentation. It was a material term of the contract that the car ought not be a grey import, which it turned out, it is.

Inform the bank that they have seemingly financed an illegal vehicle, and that you are obliged not to honour the agreement, it being contra bonos mores.

Allow your lawyer to negotiate an appropriate agreement with the approved finance available to you, with the embarrassed dealer.

Do not drive this vehicle, and immediately tender its return to the dealer!

[AJR]

Sorry, I now see the car was not financed, but the same principles apply.

[benny cahn]

Originally Posted by dr0ne

Under the new National Credit act, you are able to return a vehicle within 7 days of taking delivery and signing the documents.

After that, your choices are limited -
See if you can get the dealer to replace the car or
You can go the legal route, remember, the seller still has full responisibily even if he sold it "AS IS", if he didnt inform you of the faults. Do not let this lie. Do everything ASAP, go to the owner/manager of the garage!

Demand them to sort it out or replace! Keep everything on record - conversations and send him a fax giving him a time-frame in which to sort out your problems. It will help later on if this is to go to court.

Hi drOne - just a small correction on the NCA. you are within your rights to return the vehicle within 7 days if you didnt sign the contracts and documents on the dealers premises or at the banks premises. If that was done the 7 day ruling doesn't apply.

[George]

As a start also make a list of everything that is wrong with the vehicle and provide this to the dealer in writing within 30 days, as by law you also have a 30 day warranty on the vehicle. This will just make your case stronger if they don't adhere to this. If a decent business they will soon realise their whole business future is under threat and would be easier to rather help you.

[john_ysbeer]

OK I have really done all the things I have been advised to do... Still the dealer is giving me cold shoulder.....MIO is seemingly a dog without any teeth as they can and will only mediate between between the buyer and seller. None of their recommendations are enforcable and they can only mediate if the Dealer willingly participate...If they don't, and they get given 14 to 21 days to respond, MIO will merely inform you that they cannot help you on account of the dealer not wanting to play...then you have to go the lawyer route anyhow! NOn-participation by the dealer will strengthen the buyer's case though... Scant help... It is really F R U S T R A T I N G


Now after what I had heard of this dealer, he will probably not participate, won't budge and will make life very unpleasant for me! I don't like confrontational stuff! I lose my temper way too easy....

My lawyer si of the opinon that where I have a very strong case, I can initiate legal action, but should then prepare myself for anything up to three years before this thing gets sorted out! Meanwhile I cannot really use the vehicle as it should be in bond, and therfore the whole effort is really a wasted exercise...


It seems that dishonesty is once again going to reign supreme over honest trusting joe citizen.......

Have I ever told anyone that I hate anything to do with buying/selling... even charging for MY OWN Professional services!!! Money is one truly hateful substance without which no-one can survive!

[john_ysbeer]

And now it seems my insurance might also be in jeopardy, as this is an import...Go figure...

[Dirk]

Originally Posted by john_ysbeer

And now it seems my insurance might also be in jeopardy, as this is an import...Go figure...

Why is this?

[john_ysbeer]

Aparently has something to do with the availability of parts...It seemed funny to me as well, as my car is on the list as specified by the insurerers. They had the car on my policy as a VX TD and I called to rectify the mistake...Now they called me and asked all sorts of funny questions about the availability of parts I was warned of this by ToyotaSA itself when I took my complaints to them. Go figure...