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  #1  
Old 26-04-12, 01:32 AM
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Default Thinking of buying ML270 2000 model


Hi all. I'm thinking of buying an ML270 cdi, 2000 model. Please give me some info:

Average open road exonomy?
What size tyres in 16inch standard mags, or should I buy 17 mags? Would 265-75-16 give me much more ground clearance?
How do I do the DIY tortion bar mod I read people referring to on the forum? Needs more ground clearance!
If I service it myself, how do I clear the service interval reminder?

What is your general feel for the ML? Any inherent issues or troubles I should look out for?

Tks
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  #2  
Old 26-04-12, 11:18 AM
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Stay away from pre face lift models (2000-2002, they have lots of issues). Only buy 2003-2004 with the clear lights. Go petrol, the diesel is not that more economical on this model.

ML350-ML55 gives about the same fuel consumption 6-8km/l
ML270 7-9km/l

Rather go for a post 2003 petrol model.

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4 wiele met 1 spaarwiel en 1 stuurwiel
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  #3  
Old 29-04-12, 12:34 AM
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I owned an ML 270. Cost a bomb to maintain. Lovely car though. I agree about the facelift though.

Look at a petrol.
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  #4  
Old 29-04-12, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by munga View Post
I owned an ML 270. Cost a bomb to maintain. Lovely car though. I agree about the facelift though.

Look at a petrol.
Thanks for the input guys.
I have a friend of a friend that gets 12 - 13 km/l on the open road with his ML270, 99 model, and loves his car at 210 000kms.

After lots a research online, I decided to buy an excellent condition ML270 cdi, with 160 000kms. Have put aside quite a lot of shekels for maintenance and repairs as many have warned this car is expensive to maintain.

Did a service on Fri, found a few minor things and are working through them.

Major things that go on these are turbo, injectors, high pressure fuel pump, so am giving these special attention. The injector seals have blow by on 2 cylinders (common issue that can be resolved by changing seal if found early), so will remove all injectors and send in for testing and possible recon/replace. Turbo is also going in for new seals (just precautionary for my peace of mind).

Anyway, I was wondering about the EGR system and cats. I want to lock off the EGR , and remove both cats. Any advice on how to do this? Will the computer throw errors because of cats removed or EGR bloked?

Tks v much.
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  #5  
Old 29-04-12, 08:17 AM
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PS: I actually specifically wanted the pre 2003 shape (w163) because it has both chasis and body (better off road) the w164 onwards have unibody design.

Also, the 270cdi motor in these is the same as found in the sprinter, c-class c270cdi, etc. very popular motor / easy spares and tech advice.

Will be building up the ground clearance to medium-high (std is medium-low IMHO), with bigger wheels and torsion bar adjustment and maybe spacers. This vehicle will be used off road (less than 10% of the time tho).
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  #6  
Old 29-04-12, 09:32 PM
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Yes your usual costly CDI problems apply.

Lovely car on dirt roads and highway cruiser. The front end lift is DIY. Bigger tires will also help ground clearence.

One issue I had on mine was the fuel preheater cracked spilling a tank of diesel over about 100km. You could remove this if it happens and just have some bypass pipes made up.

I never got around to removing CATs and EGR. You will need to have the ECU remapped.

Good luck!
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  #7  
Old 29-04-12, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by munga View Post
Yes your usual costly CDI problems apply.

Lovely car on dirt roads and highway cruiser. The front end lift is DIY. Bigger tires will also help ground clearence.

One issue I had on mine was the fuel preheater cracked spilling a tank of diesel over about 100km. You could remove this if it happens and just have some bypass pipes made up.

I never got around to removing CATs and EGR. You will need to have the ECU remapped.

Good luck!
Any idea where and how to have ECU remapped?

Is the fuel preheater not necessary? If you can just bypass it...

I have a borrowed / test set of bigger tires on now, 235-85-16 BFG T/A's (805mm OD), and standard is 225-75-16 (745mm OD), so a raise of 30mm just by changing tyre size. Will add spacers for a further 25mm or so, and monitor fuel consumption closely. I want more ground clearance, but fuel consumption must NOT get out of control.
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  #8  
Old 30-04-12, 11:14 AM
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UPDATE: I have now been told (on another forum), that the max size that fits on an ML is 285-70-17 (diameter: 830mm / width: 285mm).

I have 16 inch, so I can likely go up to 305-70-16 at max (diameter: 830 / width 305mm), but may just touch because of width. I also think the fuel consumption may get quite bad with these tires, and brake wear, etc will be more.

Depending on price:

My first choice now will likely be 265-70-16 (diameter: 777mm / width: 265mm), depending on price.

Second choice will likely be 245-70-16 (diameter: 749mm / width: 245mm). But this is not much different to the OEM size with is 225-75-16 (diameter: 743mm / width 225mm ).

Third choice will be 235-85-16 (diameter: 805mm / width: 235mm ). This offer the best height, with least change in width, but are quite a bit more expensive as the more popular options (above). Also, if I need to replace a tyre in a small town, they are not likely to have this size in stock. I currently have these on the car right now, and if they perform well and give good fuel consumption, then I will possibly go for this size (rather go for what you know).
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  #9  
Old 02-05-12, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnGore View Post
PS: I actually specifically wanted the pre 2003 shape (w163) because it has both chasis and body (better off road) the w164 onwards have unibody design.
Are you referring to ladder suspension? All W163 models has ladder suspension and low range. W164 models, were only introduced 2005 and have the unibody design.

I am also looking at fitting some other tyres, currently looking at 265/65/17, seems to be a very common tyre

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'04 Kar
4 wiele met 1 spaarwiel en 1 stuurwiel
1 rathefboom met 1 laestrek moffieknoppie
[x] Groter bande
[x] Kleiner rims
[x] Behoorlike navigasie
[ ] Kief klank stelsel
[ ] Wille lift kit
[ ] Skerper ligte
[ ] Ander buffers

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  #10  
Old 03-05-12, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnGore
UPDATE: I have now been told (on another forum), that the max size that fits on an ML is 285-70-17 (diameter: 830mm / width: 285mm).

I have 16 inch, so I can likely go up to 305-70-16 at max (diameter: 830 / width 305mm), but may just touch because of width. I also think the fuel consumption may get quite bad with these tires, and brake wear, etc will be more.

Depending on price:

My first choice now will likely be 265-70-16 (diameter: 777mm / width: 265mm), depending on price.

Second choice will likely be 245-70-16 (diameter: 749mm / width: 245mm). But this is not much different to the OEM size with is 225-75-16 (diameter: 743mm / width 225mm ).

Third choice will be 235-85-16 (diameter: 805mm / width: 235mm ). This offer the best height, with least change in width, but are quite a bit more expensive as the more popular options (above). Also, if I need to replace a tyre in a small town, they are not likely to have this size in stock. I currently have these on the car right now, and if they perform well and give good fuel consumption, then I will possibly go for this size (rather go for what you know).
ECU remapping can be done by those dyno guys I imagine.

Choose a common tyre size that will give you some lift. Think hilux or defender size. See what works best. This will be a help when you are in the bundu and you have an ML marie. Get a rear mount full size if you can and replace the Marie with a aux fuel tank.

Wide tyres are not the best offroad. Only sand and snow do you get the win. That is another debate and a long one. Dont go too big and end up with rubbing.

The ML 163 are all body on ladder chassis like the more hardcore offroaders.

The preheater is for colder climates so the fuel is injected in the rail at engine temperature. I am keen on originality so would replace it if it broke again. Only thing is it aluminum so not an easy fix and they cost 2.5k last I checked. I managed to fix mine in the Kalagadi with mampoer and pratleys quick steel. Did many kms like that and sold the car with that fix. I have never seen anyone comment so I think it was an isolated case.

Remember the ML will never be hardcore rockcrawler so if that is what you want get a jeep rather.
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  #11  
Old 03-05-12, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnGore

Any idea where and how to have ECU remapped?

Is the fuel preheater not necessary? If you can just bypass it...

I have a borrowed / test set of bigger tires on now, 235-85-16 BFG T/A's (805mm OD), and standard is 225-75-16 (745mm OD), so a raise of 30mm just by changing tyre size. Will add spacers for a further 25mm or so, and monitor fuel consumption closely. I want more ground clearance, but fuel consumption must NOT get out of control.
Just remember the fuel consumption should be calculated using your GPS and not the odo as it will be out.

Also never believe the computer consumption... That thing lies through its teeth even on stock wheels.

11 to 13l/100km is realistic. Keep the speed down and you can get below 10.

Last edited by munga; 03-05-12 at 11:53 PM.
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  #12  
Old 04-05-12, 12:03 AM
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Hi, know my stepdad had lots of electrical problems with his. Think it was a 99 model. Landrover Defenders use the 235/85/16 tyre. Really works well offroad. They are however not cheap. Have a look at the Goodyear Wrangler AT/SA or at Hankook and Khumo. General also makes that size. My Dads Puma came with them and he has now done 100 000km's with them. They are however done.
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  #13  
Old 04-05-12, 09:25 AM
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Default ML Torsion bar adjustment

http://www.4x4abc.com/ML320/ml320_torsion.html

For any ML entusiast, Wolfgang's ML Page has more info than one could want.

From tyre sizes - how big will fit, a report on successful Dakar completion with a stock standard ML with only a tyre change, different spring options - and who makes them, lift kits, how it compares with the Gelandewagen, you name it.

What makes it especially good, is that every aspect discussed, has a link to the source, if you would rather read it from the horses mouth - or are ready to order.

Start here: http://www.whnet.com/4x4/

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Old 04-05-12, 01:51 PM
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And:

http://www.4x4abc.com/ML320/index.html
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  #15  
Old 05-05-12, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnGore View Post
Thanks for the input guys.
I have a friend of a friend that gets 12 - 13 km/l on the open road with his ML270, 99 model, and loves his car at 210 000kms.

After lots a research online, I decided to buy an excellent condition ML270 cdi, with 160 000kms. Have put aside quite a lot of shekels for maintenance and repairs as many have warned this car is expensive to maintain.

Did a service on Fri, found a few minor things and are working through them.

Major things that go on these are turbo, injectors, high pressure fuel pump, so am giving these special attention. The injector seals have blow by on 2 cylinders (common issue that can be resolved by changing seal if found early), so will remove all injectors and send in for testing and possible recon/replace. Turbo is also going in for new seals (just precautionary for my peace of mind).

Anyway, I was wondering about the EGR system and cats. I want to lock off the EGR , and remove both cats. Any advice on how to do this? Will the computer throw errors because of cats removed or EGR bloked?

Tks v much.
Show us some pics of your ML John congrats on the new wheels take it for an outing you will be surprised what the ML is capable of just remember to switch
the ESP of when you are off roading.

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2010 Terios 4x4 Auto - Terios off road suspension

1999 Pajero SWB - 265/75R16 BFG , Suspension

As jy n opstical die eerste keer nie maak nie is jou aanloop te kort

ONE LIFE LIVE IT!! OFFROAD STYLE!!

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Old 06-05-12, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4 Bedinges View Post
Show us some pics of your ML John congrats on the new wheels take it for an outing you will be surprised what the ML is capable of just remember to switch
the ESP of when you are off roading.
Hi again all. Sorry for the slow response. In have been posting on many forums, and for some reason did not get the email when people replied to this thread, and only checked back now (yes, I have subscribed to thread with email updates).

Anyways, will post a pic shortly. Im currently away (with another car) for a few days, and am having 3 injectors done while Im away. Hopefully will all be good to go by the time I get back.
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Old 06-05-12, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnGore View Post
Hi again all. Sorry for the slow response. In have been posting on many forums, and for some reason did not get the email when people replied to this thread, and only checked back now (yes, I have subscribed to thread with email updates).

Anyways, will post a pic shortly. Im currently away (with another car) for a few days, and am having 3 injectors done while Im away. Hopefully will all be good to go by the time I get back.
Jip they need tlc now and then.But they good vehicles if got mine nine months now and it just went over 150 000km and still going strong.

I do have the V8 a bit heavy on fuel but the power makes up for that.

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2010 Terios 4x4 Auto - Terios off road suspension

1999 Pajero SWB - 265/75R16 BFG , Suspension

As jy n opstical die eerste keer nie maak nie is jou aanloop te kort

ONE LIFE LIVE IT!! OFFROAD STYLE!!

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Old 06-05-12, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by munga View Post
Just remember the fuel consumption should be calculated using your GPS and not the odo as it will be out.

Also never believe the computer consumption... That thing lies through its teeth even on stock wheels.
I agree, speedo & odo will read out with the bigger tires. I have only driven about 6km with the bigger tires on, so I can not say how far off the speedo reads now (should be 8% too slow on speedo).

I have ordered a MB Star C3 system, and hope to be able to self diagnose most problems using this. Also, should be able to calibrate the speedo to read correctly


Computer consumption - I never trust those computerized consumption displays. But its nice to give a rough idea if you are using a lot or a little (which a seasoned driver will know anyway, no need for a little display).

Quote:
Originally Posted by munga View Post
11 to 13l/100km is realistic. Keep the speed down and you can get below 10.
Ouch! That sounds very bad! From my research the ML270 should give 7.7 l/100km on the highway with cruise control at 120kmph.

I drove my one in heavy traffic, and "raced it" every chance I got between lights and through traffic (not buy racer speed, but tested out the power. Really not economical driving) and I got 10.5km/l in an 85km drive. Calculated by filling up tank to max before and after the trip. So it should easily live up to the claim of 12.5km/l (8 l/100km).



With bigger wheels that will drop of course, and the speedo/odo will read out by 8%. So I need to factor in the incorrect speedo to calculate a more accurate fuel consumption. And of course do a few samples over a full tank of diesel (73 liters usable range with 10 reserve). I am still confident I will easily get 11km/l even with the bigger wheels and AT tread. (but I really do not know at this time, need to test still).
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Old 06-05-12, 10:44 AM
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even 11l/100km is good for an ML diesel or petrol doesn't matter.

Mine is an overall average of 15.3l/100km in traffic it goes up to 18l/100km
My best on the open road was 12.8l/100km at speed of 100km/h

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2010 Terios 4x4 Auto - Terios off road suspension

1999 Pajero SWB - 265/75R16 BFG , Suspension

As jy n opstical die eerste keer nie maak nie is jou aanloop te kort

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Alles in die lewe gebeur met n doel

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Old 06-05-12, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4 Bedinges View Post
Show us some pics of your ML John congrats on the new wheels take it for an outing you will be surprised what the ML is capable of just remember to switch
the ESP of when you are off roading.
Thanks 4x4 Bedinges!

I look forward to testing it off road, but not until I get the ride height sorted. It is very low standard (book says 200mm clearance, but looks lower to my eye. Want at least 250mm before I try any off roading).

Here is a pic of how it looked just after I fitted a borrowed set of BFG T/A's , size 235-85-16 (805mm diameter vs the standard 743mm = 62mm = 31mm lift).



Very poor light, but you get the idea. Still needs another 20mm or 40mm lift IMHO.
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Old 06-05-12, 10:56 AM
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Thanks 4x4 Bedinges!

I look forward to testing it off road, but not until I get the ride height sorted. It is very low standard (book says 200mm clearance, but looks lower to my eye. Want at least 250mm before I try any off roading).

Here is a pic of how it looked just after I fitted a borrowed set of BFG T/A's , size 235-85-16 (805mm diameter vs the standard 743mm = 62mm = 31mm lift).



Very poor light, but you get the idea. Still needs another 20mm or 40mm lift IMHO.
Looks good jip they all need more ground clearance my ML's bumper is witness to that I did the torsion bars now will do the tyres a bit later before we go for an outing again.

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2010 Terios 4x4 Auto - Terios off road suspension

1999 Pajero SWB - 265/75R16 BFG , Suspension

As jy n opstical die eerste keer nie maak nie is jou aanloop te kort

ONE LIFE LIVE IT!! OFFROAD STYLE!!

Alles in die lewe gebeur met n doel

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Old 06-05-12, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4 Bedinges View Post
even 11l/100km is good for an ML diesel or petrol doesn't matter.

Mine is an overall average of 15.3l/100km in traffic it goes up to 18l/100km
My best on the open road was 12.8l/100km at speed of 100km/h
I do remember looking at your Fuelly profile before. That is actually pretty good for all the power of that V8. Really an awesome car!!

As I said, I still really do not know until I have done a few tanks on the open highway. Im still very hopeful that I will get 11km/l on highway with cruise control, or even 10km/l I will be happy. Below that I will likely have to sell the ML and buy something better on fuel (I do long trips for work, and fuel is a real killer on long trips, need something light, which is what brought my to the ML270 which from what I can find is the lightest SUV on the road for under R150 000.).
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Old 06-05-12, 11:04 AM
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Looks good jip they all need more ground clearance my ML's bumper is witness to that I did the torsion bars now will do the tyres a bit later before we go for an outing again.
Ouch. Yea, I want to rather lift mine before I put any damage on it. hehe

Where can I find more pics of your ML500 ? The one you have in your footer looks very cool !
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Old 06-05-12, 11:06 AM
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I do remember looking at your Fuelly profile before. That is actually pretty good for all the power of that V8. Really an awesome car!!

As I said, I still really do not know until I have done a few tanks on the open highway. Im still very hopeful that I will get 11km/l on highway with cruise control, or even 10km/l I will be happy. Below that I will likely have to sell the ML and buy something better on fuel (I do long trips for work, and fuel is a real killer on long trips, need something light, which is what brought my to the ML270 which from what I can find is the lightest SUV on the road for under R150 000.).
There a ML 270 in witbank with a lady driver and she also told me that in town its good on fuel.

I love my spiertier even swambo said it will be a sad day when we get something else.

even robot to robot u need something with serious speed to leave the V8 behind.Its my only my second car of all the many I have owned that puts a smile on my face everytime I get behind the wheel.

A pic of spiertier

http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/...1&d=1336295168
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2010 Terios 4x4 Auto - Terios off road suspension

1999 Pajero SWB - 265/75R16 BFG , Suspension

As jy n opstical die eerste keer nie maak nie is jou aanloop te kort

ONE LIFE LIVE IT!! OFFROAD STYLE!!

Alles in die lewe gebeur met n doel

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  #25  
Old 06-05-12, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frans E View Post
Hi, know my stepdad had lots of electrical problems with his. Think it was a 99 model. Landrover Defenders use the 235/85/16 tyre. Really works well offroad. They are however not cheap. Have a look at the Goodyear Wrangler AT/SA or at Hankook and Khumo. General also makes that size. My Dads Puma came with them and he has now done 100 000km's with them. They are however done.
Thanks Frans

I have pretty much decided to go for Goodyear Wrangler AT/SA 's in size 235-85-16 (805 diameter vs the 743mm standard diameter, a lift of 31mm).

Currently testing a set of BFG's at this same size (235-85-16), but they are quite worn so not a fair test.

The Goodyear AT/SA 's have great reviews on this forum, and owners seem very happy with their performance.
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Old 06-05-12, 01:05 PM
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Ouch. Yea, I want to rather lift mine before I put any damage on it. hehe

Where can I find more pics of your ML500 ? The one you have in your footer looks very cool !
Hiers n paar links.

http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/...highlight=tuna


http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/...ght=Lake+eland


http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/...ad.php?t=76558


will post some more later.

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2010 Terios 4x4 Auto - Terios off road suspension

1999 Pajero SWB - 265/75R16 BFG , Suspension

As jy n opstical die eerste keer nie maak nie is jou aanloop te kort

ONE LIFE LIVE IT!! OFFROAD STYLE!!

Alles in die lewe gebeur met n doel


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Old 06-05-12, 01:36 PM
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Thanks 4x4 Bedinges!

I look forward to testing it off road, but not until I get the ride height sorted. It is very low standard (book says 200mm clearance, but looks lower to my eye. Want at least 250mm before I try any off roading).

Here is a pic of how it looked just after I fitted a borrowed set of BFG T/A's , size 235-85-16 (805mm diameter vs the standard 743mm = 62mm = 31mm lift).



Very poor light, but you get the idea. Still needs another 20mm or 40mm lift IMHO.
Tyres look very cool! Let me know how the C3 diagnostic unit turns out! i.e. recalibration of the speedo etc.

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Old 06-05-12, 02:29 PM
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Tyres look very cool! Let me know how the C3 diagnostic unit turns out! i.e. recalibration of the speedo etc.
Lyk my ons het die nadeel met die 17duims die manne sit ordentlikke bande op daai 16duim rims

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2010 Terios 4x4 Auto - Terios off road suspension

1999 Pajero SWB - 265/75R16 BFG , Suspension

As jy n opstical die eerste keer nie maak nie is jou aanloop te kort

ONE LIFE LIVE IT!! OFFROAD STYLE!!

Alles in die lewe gebeur met n doel

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Old 06-05-12, 07:57 PM
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There a ML 270 in witbank with a lady driver and she also told me that in town its good on fuel.

I love my spiertier even swambo said it will be a sad day when we get something else.

even robot to robot u need something with serious speed to leave the V8 behind.Its my only my second car of all the many I have owned that puts a smile on my face everytime I get behind the wheel.

A pic of spiertier

http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/...1&d=1336295168
Cool, looks just like mine, just a bit more wet !

"spiertier" ? I do not get it... what does the name mean? (sorry, soutie here.)

Interesting that you say this is your second car that puts a smile on your face every time. What was the other car that did?
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Old 06-05-12, 08:06 PM
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Cool, looks just like mine, just a bit more wet !

"spiertier" ? I do not get it... what does the name mean? (sorry, soutie here.)

Interesting that you say this is your second car that puts a smile on your face every time. What was the other car that did?
It was an 2002 Isuzu KB 320 V6 aka the beast

Spiertier hope I'm right "power tiger"
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2010 Terios 4x4 Auto - Terios off road suspension

1999 Pajero SWB - 265/75R16 BFG , Suspension

As jy n opstical die eerste keer nie maak nie is jou aanloop te kort

ONE LIFE LIVE IT!! OFFROAD STYLE!!

Alles in die lewe gebeur met n doel

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Old 06-05-12, 08:25 PM
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It was an 2002 Isuzu KB 320 V6 aka the beast

Spiertier hope I'm right "power tiger"
Very interesting. Power Tiger sounds cool !

My ML is also the closest I have come to a car I "love" to drive. I'm sure I have not owned as many cars as you have, but I have driven many, and of course driven in many, and there is just nothing else out there that is as practical and still fun to drive as the ML.

My current car (before ML) for the last 3 years is a C180 (95 model). It is excellent on the open road, very comfortable, good on fuel (13km/l), safe, strong / solid, and does well off road too. Have been all over Kgalagadi with it, in deep sand (tires down of course), Kruger a few times, Cape Town, PE, Durban, etc (from Pta) each a few times, and it never lets me down. I have just this week mapped out a 4x4 only trail on a private nature reserve in the Northern Cape with my trusty old C-class! Such an excellent car I just do not have the heart to sell it (but I will be selling it soon). Also puts a smile on my face every time I get in it, lol.
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Old 06-05-12, 09:38 PM
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I love my V6's and V8's and the ML is amazing I love the fun button.

Enjoy your ML maybe we will meet up someday on a trail.

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2010 Terios 4x4 Auto - Terios off road suspension

1999 Pajero SWB - 265/75R16 BFG , Suspension

As jy n opstical die eerste keer nie maak nie is jou aanloop te kort

ONE LIFE LIVE IT!! OFFROAD STYLE!!

Alles in die lewe gebeur met n doel

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Old 07-06-12, 09:39 AM
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I drove my one in heavy traffic, and "raced it" every chance I got between lights and through traffic (not buy racer speed, but tested out the power. Really not economical driving) and I got 10.5km/l in an 85km drive. Calculated by filling up tank to max before and after the trip. So it should easily live up to the claim of 12.5km/l (8 l/100km).

With bigger wheels that will drop of course, and the speedo/odo will read out by 8%. So I need to factor in the incorrect speedo to calculate a more accurate fuel consumption. And of course do a few samples over a full tank of diesel (73 liters usable range with 10 reserve). I am still confident I will easily get 11km/l even with the bigger wheels and AT tread. (but I really do not know at this time, need to test still).
Update: I have now driven a little over 7000kms on this car, with the Goodyear AT/SA Silent Armor tyres on, in size 235/85/16 .

I can report that the fuel consumption has taken a knock with the bigger tyres, and also the pull away from a standing start is more sluggish. The ground clearance is great now though. I have done Sani Pass, and into Lesotho until Black Mountain Pass and back down again, getting 7.5kmpl using mostly low range up and down. The car is very capable, even on the thick ice on some of the corners, walking over rocks, etc, all no problems, handled with ease.

Consumption: On the open road with cruise control on (Pta to Margate) at a steady 125kmph, I got 11kmpl on the dot. Granted, it is "downhill", but cruise control is of course not the best thing for fuel consumption either! In town I am getting about 8kmpl.


I think 3 factors are contributing for the now lower fuel consumption (lower than I got on initial test with OEM sized tires with road tread):

Tyre tread - The all terrain tread is of course not as good as the more roady tyres I bought the car with (but took them off very quickly as they were very bad shape).

Tyre outer diameter size - The size I got (235/85/16) is 7.7% bigger than standard (225/75/16), and in circumference is 8.3% difference (odo and speedo reads 8.3% under). (PS: all consumption figures I give already include the 8.3% factored back in). The larger diameter robs the car of torque, and makes pull away a bit harder work for the motor. It still handles it very easily, but it obviously affects fuel consumption.

Ground Clearance - the car is now 31mm higher, allowing a lot more air under the car than standard, and creating more drag. This has more of an effect the faster you drive of course.

I am now seriously considering going back to standard tyre size, which should get the open road fuel consumption back to 12kmpl or better, and town driving to 9kmpl or better.

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  #34  
Old 07-06-12, 10:49 PM
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Update: I have now driven a little over 7000kms on this car, with the Goodyear AT/SA Silent Armor tyres on, in size 235/85/16 .

I can report that the fuel consumption has taken a knock with the bigger tyres, and also the pull away from a standing start is more sluggish. The ground clearance is great now though. I have done Sani Pass, and into Lesotho until Black Mountain Pass and back down again, getting 7.5kmpl using mostly low range up and down. The car is very capable, even on the thick ice on some of the corners, walking over rocks, etc, all no problems, handled with ease.

Tyre outer diameter size - The size I got (235/85/16) is 7.7% bigger than standard (225/75/16), and in circumference is 8.3% difference (odo and speedo reads 8.3% under). (PS: all consumption figures I give already include the 8.3% factored back in). The larger diameter robs the car of torque, and makes pull away a bit harder work for the motor. It still handles it very easily, but it obviously affects fuel consumption.

Ground Clearance - the car is now 31mm higher, allowing a lot more air under the car than standard, and creating more drag. This has more of an effect the faster you drive of course.

I am now seriously considering going back to standard tyre size, which should get the open road fuel consumption back to 12kmpl or better, and town driving to 9kmpl or better.
John, this is the way to use a ML!

I did Sani Pass - Lesotho trip on standerd size tyres and had problems with ground clearance, so go for a balanced approach:

-standerd tyre 225/75/16 go for 245/75/16 20mm lift
-standerd tyre 255/65/16 go for 265/70/16 20mm lift

I did Rust deWinter trial on this larger tyres only, was ok but needed more ground clearance:

- add 20mm rear spacer lift and never looked back.

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Old 08-06-12, 06:14 AM
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John, this is the way to use a ML!

I did Sani Pass - Lesotho trip on standerd size tyres and had problems with ground clearance, so go for a balanced approach:

-standerd tyre 225/75/16 go for 245/75/16 20mm lift
-standerd tyre 255/65/16 go for 265/70/16 20mm lift

I did Rust deWinter trial on this larger tyres only, was ok but needed more ground clearance:

- add 20mm rear spacer lift and never looked back.
Tks Chris. But I thought you have 17 inch mags?...

Where can I get 20mm spacers for the rear?
Found a place that can turn the front torsion bars by 1 spline for me, will charge R650.

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Old 08-06-12, 10:37 AM
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Tks Chris. But I thought you have 17 inch mags?...

Where can I get 20mm spacers for the rear?
Found a place that can turn the front torsion bars by 1 spline for me, will charge R650.
Yes, I did the equivalent change 255/60/17 to 245/70/17 or 265/65/17 this gave 20mm lift.

Spacer lift was done by Afrishox in Jhb phone Ted 011 4935730 he do the whole suspension setup.

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Old 08-06-12, 01:06 PM
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Yes, I did the equivalent change 255/60/17 to 245/70/17 or 265/65/17 this gave 20mm lift.

Spacer lift was done by Afrishox in Jhb phone Ted 011 4935730 he do the whole suspension setup.
Thanks Chris, but you have given me that number before, and I replied on the other thread that that number does not exist!

I have found 3 different numbers on forums for the illusive "Ted" at Afrishox, but none of the numbers exist. Has Ted gone out of business?

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Old 08-06-12, 01:45 PM
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Thanks Chris, but you have given me that number before, and I replied on the other thread that that number does not exist!

I have found 3 different numbers on forums for the illusive "Ted" at Afrishox, but none of the numbers exist. Has Ted gone out of business?
Sorry John, I tried the number and do not work.

I was refered to Ted by Darryl from Mikem suspensions- might be a good place to start.

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Old 08-06-12, 01:52 PM
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Sorry John, I tried the number and do not work.

I was refered to Ted by Darryl from Mikem suspensions- might be a good place to start.
Any number for them?

PS: Do you still have your ML? I see your footer says only GProfessional...

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Old 08-06-12, 02:00 PM
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Any number for them?

PS: Do you still have your ML? I see your footer says only GProfessional...
No number, but Mikem susp does advertise in the 4x4 magazines.

ML was trade in on Gwagen. My brother own '99 ML320 with these 2 mods.

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Old 08-06-12, 02:35 PM
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John here is an email I recieved from Ted

"
Hi Petrus,

We are once again waiting for new stock to arrive. The ship docks on the 19.05.2012.

I will have to wait until this arrives to give you the prices.

The shocks are about R2500 each incl VAT but this is looking likely to change.



Regards,

Ted Garstang

Bilstein Commercial Manager

tel: (012) 653-8466

fax: (012) 653-0496

mobile: 082 600 6615

ted@imcomex.co.za"

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2010 Terios 4x4 Auto - Terios off road suspension

1999 Pajero SWB - 265/75R16 BFG , Suspension

As jy n opstical die eerste keer nie maak nie is jou aanloop te kort

ONE LIFE LIVE IT!! OFFROAD STYLE!!

Alles in die lewe gebeur met n doel

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Old 08-06-12, 03:55 PM
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John here is an email I recieved from Ted

"
Hi Petrus,

We are once again waiting for new stock to arrive. The ship docks on the 19.05.2012.

I will have to wait until this arrives to give you the prices.

The shocks are about R2500 each incl VAT but this is looking likely to change.



Regards,

Ted Garstang

Bilstein Commercial Manager

tel: (012) 653-8466

fax: (012) 653-0496

mobile: 082 600 6615

ted@imcomex.co.za"
Tks v much! That number at least rings, but no answer yet. Will keep trying.

Are you putting Bilstiens on your ML?
I tried Monroe for a bit, but they were too soft and bottomed out over speed bumps. Then decided to go for OEM Sacks, and am very very happy with the ride now. Rides like a Merc! Only cost R1300 each (fronts only).

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Old 08-06-12, 04:02 PM
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John, this is the way to use a ML!

I did Sani Pass - Lesotho trip on standerd size tyres and had problems with ground clearance, so go for a balanced approach:

-standerd tyre 225/75/16 go for 245/75/16 20mm lift
-standerd tyre 255/65/16 go for 265/70/16 20mm lift

I did Rust deWinter trial on this larger tyres only, was ok but needed more ground clearance:

- add 20mm rear spacer lift and never looked back.
Tks ChrisB, I thank that is very good advice. Sadly 245/75/16 is not a very popular size. Goodyear does not make the AT/SA in that size, and the options that are available are 2x the price of 245/70/16 in Goodyear AT/SA.

The diameter and circumstance of the 245/70/16 is about 1% bigger than OEM std size. So very slightly "higher".

Will definately want to go for 20mm or 30mm spacers, but still trying to get hold of Ted. Will keep trying.

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Old 08-06-12, 04:09 PM
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Tks v much! That number at least rings, but no answer yet. Will keep trying.

Are you putting Bilstiens on your ML?
I tried Monroe for a bit, but they were too soft and bottomed out over speed bumps. Then decided to go for OEM Sacks, and am very very happy with the ride now. Rides like a Merc! Only cost R1300 each (fronts only).
Kind of in a fight with myself doing the ML so I can do Baboons or letting it go and get something that will go where I want and still can handle the boys and the dog at the back.:conf used::conf used::conf used::conf used::conf used:

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2010 Terios 4x4 Auto - Terios off road suspension

1999 Pajero SWB - 265/75R16 BFG , Suspension

As jy n opstical die eerste keer nie maak nie is jou aanloop te kort

ONE LIFE LIVE IT!! OFFROAD STYLE!!

Alles in die lewe gebeur met n doel

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Old 08-06-12, 04:51 PM
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Kind of in a fight with myself doing the ML so I can do Baboons or letting it go and get something that will go where I want and still can handle the boys and the dog at the back.:conf used::conf used::conf used::conf used::conf used:
Have u tried Baboons with the ML?
Don't let the naysayers get u down. The ML is quite capable offroad!

Give Sani Pass a go with you ML... After that you will be less !

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Old 08-06-12, 05:03 PM
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Have u tried Baboons with the ML?
Don't let the naysayers get u down. The ML is quite capable offroad!

Give Sani Pass a go with you ML... After that you will be less !
I know ML is very capable , did Dewildt 4x4 , Khungwini and lake Eland with my ML. Still standard tyres everything

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2010 Terios 4x4 Auto - Terios off road suspension

1999 Pajero SWB - 265/75R16 BFG , Suspension

As jy n opstical die eerste keer nie maak nie is jou aanloop te kort

ONE LIFE LIVE IT!! OFFROAD STYLE!!

Alles in die lewe gebeur met n doel

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  #47  
Old 08-06-12, 06:15 PM
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I know ML is very capable , did Dewildt 4x4 , Khungwini and lake Eland with my ML. Still standard tyres everything
Cool. I was at Lake Eland 3 weeks ago. Also did all their 4x4 tracks, did u touch at all? I had 2 places where ground clearance was right, but still made it through without any damage.

Keep the ML!

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Old 08-06-12, 09:22 PM
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Kind of in a fight with myself doing the ML so I can do Baboons or letting it go and get something that will go where I want and still can handle the boys and the dog at the back.:conf used::conf used::conf used::conf used::conf used:
We did quite severe offroading with 2xW163 and 1x W164.

For Baboons you ARE going to need difflocks! W163 needs movement for 4ETS to work, which is a problem in slow severe offroading.

W164 will do Baboons. Resently it was done by Discovery4. Most of our trips a friend with D4 came with. W164 match the D4 allthough the D4 is better offroad.

My 2cw

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Old 09-06-12, 08:20 AM
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Update: I have now driven a little over 7000kms on this car, with the Goodyear AT/SA Silent Armor tyres on, in size 235/85/16 .

I can report that the fuel consumption has taken a knock with the bigger tyres, and also the pull away from a standing start is more sluggish. The ground clearance is great now though...

Consumption: On the open road with cruise control on (Pta to Margate) at a steady 125kmph, I got 11kmpl on the dot. Granted, it is "downhill", but cruise control is of course not the best thing for fuel consumption either! In town I am getting about 8kmpl.

...

Tyre outer diameter size - The size I got (235/85/16) is 7.7% bigger than standard (225/75/16), and in circumference is 8.3% difference (odo and speedo reads 8.3% under). (PS: all consumption figures I give already include the 8.3% factored back in). The larger diameter robs the car of torque, and makes pull away a bit harder work for the motor. It still handles it very easily, but it obviously affects fuel consumption.

Ground Clearance - the car is now 31mm higher, allowing a lot more air under the car than standard, and creating more drag. This has more of an effect the faster you drive of course.

I am now seriously considering going back to standard tyre size, which should get the open road fuel consumption back to 12kmpl or better, and town driving to 9kmpl or better.
Update: Got a bee in my bonnet yesterday, and changed the tyres!

Got 245/70/16 Goodyear AT/SA for R5500 fitted for set of 4 (taking off the 235/85/16 Goodyear AT/SA which cost R6800 fitted).

The new size is only 1% bigger than OEM spec size outer diameter and circumference. Time will tell what a difference this will make to fuel consumption, and if it brings an improvement as high as 1kmpl or not.

What I have immediately noticed:
(drove Pta to Midrand and back last night with mixed traffic, lots of suburbia and of course some highway, which is again being resurfaced... hmm).

- Car is a lot more responsive, and quicker off the mark. Dare I say its a lot more drivable, and more "awake".
- holds better on steeper hills than it did before (automatic in "D", on a hill).
- More vibrations are transferred to the car than before (high sidewalls of bigger tyres used to dampen the bumps and imperfections on the road).
- breaks are more responsive (feeling Im breaking too hard now, and need to "learn" to press the peddle less hard now. Its like driving a lighter car / similar to how a car feels after you have been driving with a trailer for a long time).

Some other advantages of the tyre size over the big tyres:
- I no longer need to carry a full sized spare in the boot, or buy an external spare wheel carrier. (I had to carry a full sized spare (in the boot for now), because of the difference in diameter size between the biscuit spare and the new 8% oversized diameter tyres).)
- Speedo now reads correctly (actually about 1% over GPS speed, which is ideal actually). With the bigger tyres the speedo showed 8.3% slower than GPS speed. Have to keep reminding yourself to drive 110kmph on the speedo, when true speed is 120kmph, etc. Also had to calculate the 8.3% back in to work out the fuel consumption each time, etc. Life has just become just a bit simpler...

Disadvantages of going down from big tyres to smaller tyres:
- less ground clearance (28mm lower than with big tyres). More chance of hurting undercarriage of car offroad, rocks, etc.
- less absorption of road bumps and stones on dirt roads, etc. (higher sidewall absorbs more).
- less "grip" offroad, less ability of the tyre to wrap around rocks (esp when deflated).
- a little more chance of tyre damage when hitting larger potholes (this can be debated, as the bigger tyre is heavier, but most agree the bigger tyres handle potholes better).


So, the bigger tyres are for sale. Anyone interested please contact me (has posted advert in the classifieds section, for sale). 235/85/16 Goodyear Wrangler AT/SA with 7000kms on them for R5000 (new was R6800 purchased 1 month ago).

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ML270 cdi (W163 first facelift 2000 model).
C180 (94 model) - batted and bruised but trusty steed is still going strong.
BMW F650GS Dakar - for sale...

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  #50  
Old 09-06-12, 08:30 AM
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JohnGore JohnGore is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris B View Post
We did quite severe offroading with 2xW163 and 1x W164.

For Baboons you ARE going to need difflocks! W163 needs movement for 4ETS to work, which is a problem in slow severe offroading.

W164 will do Baboons. Resently it was done by Discovery4. Most of our trips a friend with D4 came with. W164 match the D4 allthough the D4 is better offroad.

My 2cw
IMHO it is going down the line of reasoning that the ultimate off road vehicle is a Lada Niva / Suzuki Jimny or a Lesotho horse...

An SUV is always going to be a compromise between offroad ability and on road performance / comfort, etc.

I really feel like going out there and doing Baboons just to prove it can be done without the very latest 4x4, but I have nothing to prove. I find it very strange (sorry 4x4 Bendeges) that you are considering selling an EXCELLENT 4x4 SUV just because it will not be the ideal vehicle for Baboons.

Very few vehicles are "ideal" for Baboons. The best is probably something like an old Lada Niva, because you will not care as you add scratches and dents to it.

If you want, you CAN do baboons with any car, and the ML will do it, but you will pick up dents and scratches, and maybe worse damage, and will not enjoy it. The Lada Niva will pick up the same, but you will care less for it, that is the main difference.

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ML270 cdi (W163 first facelift 2000 model).
C180 (94 model) - batted and bruised but trusty steed is still going strong.
BMW F650GS Dakar - for sale...

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