D4D Injector Problem, Fuel Line and Filters - Page 2




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  1. #21
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    Thanks for the replies guys...Christo some very interesting information there, regarding the filters and the injectors, and I am certainly going to add a better filter system. Christo, any suggestions on the brands of secondary filter/watertrap. Henris suggested a GUD Fa 1000 - which I cant actually seem to find on the Gud catalogue...Someone suggested a 2 micron filter, from what I can understand it needs to be fairly large in order to maintain good flow through?
    Also anyone think that the Denco - replacement injectors - are better or upgraded from the OEM.

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    Paul, that filter holds about 750ml of diesel. It is a 20micron filter,as far as I know. That is just to take the "rocks" (As per Christo) and the water out. The balance is then left to the OEM filter.
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  3. #23
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    Hi, Paul.

    I can only comment on Caterpillar filters - the ultra-high efficiency filters are relatively inexpensive compared to stealers (around 200bucks per filter if memory serves me right - believe it or not) and CAN, contrary to common belief, handle a large fuel flow. The filters fitted to our bachoe loader and small wheel loader range is small and works well.

    I general, a true water trap (dedicated, bot the one sla[pped onto the bottom of a fuel filter) uses trapped water to trap more water - the best mechanism available. The excess water is then periodically drained off. Autodrain systems are apt to bleed air into the fuel system and is not advised (as any ex SADF tiffy about those ones).

    I did start a thread a few monhs back with filter part numbers and prices - will get them for you again but can only happen second week in Jan.

    Having your own twin-filter base made is easy and inexpensive - the most difficult part is to have the filter stub thread cut and affixed to a flat steel base. You can drill internal ports and plug the ends or use tubes as passages.

    When used to the kms's advised it becomes a fully foolproof, inexpensive system compared to some of the offerings on the market.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deon Burger View Post
    Again this conversation started because a Toyota D4D experienced injector problems. I hardly read on this forum about any other manufacturer that has similar problems with injector failure or is it that they just fail to come forward and share with us their pain.
    Deon,

    This forum unfortunately (for some, and fortunately for others), expose the truth.

    The following truths are some of those exposed:

    • Mitsu 4m40 engines (2800 TD) prior to 2003 had a head problem, especially if fitted in the Colts
    • ditto tor the KZTE engine
    • LR wiring looms get ruined by oil ingress
    • Toyota 2.8 and3.0 diesel engines suffer from overheating
    • Pajero Gen3 & Gen4 lose rear bumpers in off-road conditions
    • Freelanders are risky purchases
    • D4D engine had injector problems
    • some Fortuners (especially older ones) had a stability problem on washboard gravel roads
    • VW V10 TDi Touaregs are not good waders
    • etc

    What did I miss?
    Last edited by 4ePajero; 2009/12/24 at 12:58 PM. Reason: Added 'V10 TDi'

  5. #25
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    To be fair 4eP, the V10 Touareg is the "Jannie kan nie swem nie" of the bunch

    And you forgot the Zook GV V6's unavailability of AT 18" tyres and unavailability of 35mm offset aftermarket rims.
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  6. #26
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    Hello,
    Some answers from France… I've also a Hilux powered with a D4D engine (made in RSA) and my injectors failed after 50,000 kms… They have been replaced for free under warranty this year.
    Quote Originally Posted by pauladams View Post
    1. The new injectors, I believe are Denco are they in any way upgraded from the standard ones that come with the car – Are they more resistant to sulphur/dirt? I believe that the original ones (especially in the Vigo Extra Cab from Thailand) are said not to be as good as the SA ones…can anyone confirm this or has any experience regarding this.
    I've been told by my Toyota dealer that the new Denso injectors fitted are different from the original ones and that i will no more have any problem from this side.
    Quote Originally Posted by pauladams View Post
    Is there any additional filter that I can put onto the fuel line, already I change that Diesel filter every 5000km, and usually it is black with dirt! I use a decent filter funnel before hand as well!
    I have a Racor 500 fitted and the original filter stays clean even after dirty trips in Tunisia or Morocco. I'd recommend.
    Pierre

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    Hi Guys...
    Being a junior to this blog and junior to owning my first Toyota, I'm getting worried about the injector issues mentioned in all these threads. I bought my first Toyota, being a 3.0 D4-D D/Cab 4X2, brand new less than a month ago and have already done 2900km going to the wes-coast for a holiday and back to Jo-burg... Do I have trouble brewing?!?!
    What I do know is that I really try to use 50ppm diesel only (as it is not always possible) and will expect all service interval to replace the fuel and air filter... I don't want it to be to late when I try to optimize and maintain my vehicle. Thanx Paul for the eye opener, Thanx Henris, Christo for all the info...
    Did I make a mistake to change brands

  8. #28
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    Petdino,

    We always try not to bash brands on this forum. I will respect that.

    What I have gathered so far is that the newer injectors on the D4D is less likely to give trouble and that 2-stroke oil is a good thing to add to your diesel (1:200). There are many and extensive threads relating to 2-stroke oil, I suggest you search and read those and make up your own mind.

    Regards
    Roelf

  9. #29
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    Thanx Roelf...
    I need to say that I have put a lot of miles on this BAKKIE the last month and really enjoyed the drive down to the west coast.

    To all, I'm just worried about the problem posted in these threads pertaining to my new purchase. I guess all brands have their pro's and con's... I really do like my 3.0 D4-D plenty... Guess it all boils down to owners and maintenance...

  10. #30
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    Thanks for the posts guys, my questions are slowly being answered. I have come to the conclusion that I certainly have to fit a second filter. So, I am left with these options.What would you guys think.

    1. Do I put a top end 2 micron filter/ water trap from Racor, after the OEM filter (as a secondary filter) thereby catching anything that passes through the OEM.
    2. Do I put a top end filter/watertrap of 10 or 20 micron before the OEM (as a primary filter) thereby anything passing through that will get caught in the OEM.

    From what I can understand the pump can handle the extra filter as long as the filter is of high quality and has a good flow through rate - which I gather tends to make them physically bigger

    I understand by having a 2 micron filter will require more frequent changes, but I am willing to do that rather than keep paying for the new injectors.

    Happy New Year

  11. #31
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    Hi, Paul.

    Firstly - speaking from experience - Filtration gurus are unfortunately very few and far between. Most of them moves in the earthmoving and heavy mine plant industry - very few are connected to the automotive industry.

    My experience with Donaldson, even Racor is that they may know a lot about their product (which may be good in some instances but certainly not the best out there) but they know little of the exact reasons why these goodies are required (other that having to sell their product, of course).

    Answer to your questions - Correct sequence for fuel filtration is as follows - when followed from the tank...

    1) Water trap FIRST (normally incorporating a very rudamentary filter) (fuel needs to be "sucked" through a water trap.
    2) Standard filter second.
    3)One or two fine filters of 2 or three micron last before going into injector pump or high-pressure pump (on common-rail systems).

    Multiple filters must be in series, not in parrallel.

    Flow rates are generally not a problem with the synthetic media fine filters. Remember, you can play with both filter diameters and length to ensure the required flow.

    I made mention earlier in the thread of the increased sediment capacity of the 2micron filters - if fitted AFTER the OEM filter the replacement period should be two to three times the OEM replacement kms. Remember - if it clogs, the engine simply loses power - NO damage. Some guys simply carry a spare somewhere on their vehicle and replace it when performance starts to drop - usually more than 35000kms later....
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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by pauladams View Post
    ...................... my questions are slowly being answered. ..................
    Must admit. I am a lot wiser after all this. Thanks a stack Christo.
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  13. #33
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    Christo,

    interesting post - would you mind to explain a bit more about the various filtration techniques? I only know about paper elements but would love to hear what's better - or different.

    Henris,

    what filter systems do you replace the std systems with?

  14. #34
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    On Paul's car we are not going to replace anything. We will be adding a 20micron filter/water trap before the OEM filter and a 2micron filter after the OEM filter. This is after Christo's recommendation.
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  15. #35
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    The newer injectors have ceramic coated tips, which prevent varnish build up on them. You should be fine!


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  16. #36
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    Yesterday we took the tanks off and they were spotless. Today we fitted the CF1000 and the UDF filters. We also added a small electric lift pump, just after the CF1000.

    So tomorrow the new injectors are going in and when the car gets back to Musina, (400km) I want to pull out that UDF Filter. Very interested in what it will look like.

    Will post some pics tomorrow when Steward gets back here. According to all the stories that I have hear, the new injectors should be good for at least 200,000km. If UK_VETTE's D4D is anything to go by, then they should go another 400,000km.

    New injectors went in and the car is now running like the clappers again.

    We just pulled the UDF filter after 500km and it has already discoloured. WOW.

    Steward will post some pics when he gets back from Mana Pools. That will be about 2,000km then. Then we will compare the cartridge to the new one.
    Last edited by Henris; 2010/01/22 at 10:29 AM.
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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by TLC70 View Post
    Christo,

    interesting post - would you mind to explain a bit more about the various filtration techniques? I only know about paper elements but would love to hear what's better - or different.
    I will explain the 3 x primary types in use today.

    Radial - a cross-flow type which normally includes pleats to ensure maximum surface to physical size ratio. It is the current filter of choice for fluid and air filtration given the low price and wide applications where it can be used. Filtering size and accuracy it is hugely dependant on the media type (Cured paper, synthetic etc). The curing age in the case of paper is important as it determines durability and stability. They are relatively inexpensive and can be used in parallel and series to meet cleanliness stability. Current cleanliness ability is around 1.5micron. Maintenance requires removal or unscrewing and replacement of elements and / or cartridge type filter housings.

    Depth - picture a toilet roll (this is EXACTLY what was used during the initial years) with a fluid-tight outer layer, end plates and a casing, where the fluids are pushed from the top end of the roll to the bottom end - or vice versa. The fluids have to travel between the layers of paper - the contaminants gets trapped along this journey thereby being cleaned. Latest technology as used by UDF and Filters 2000 is a paper base similar to the ones used for teller machine printouts, however, the roll tension is presicely measured to ensure accurate efficiency prior to being encased in a leak-tite outer layer. These filters are normally used in bypass filtration (ie not as an engine oil filter) to ensure good clean oil - reason being extremely low flow rates vs size and initial expense. They are unfortunately, due to the nature of the material, also totally intolerant of water - they DO remove it, but becomes inoperative (clogs) because of it. The very small surface area and deep migratory path which the oil has to take causes very low flow rates to size performance - probably about 10% of a radial type filter. Pressure helps, but over-pressure can lead to efficiency failure due to dirt being pushed "through". Current cleanliness ability is around 0.25micron. Maintenance requires replacement of an element assembly (earlier models used stacked rolls).

    Disc type - used in large plants where large quantities of fluids need to be cleaned. It is normally very large, heavy, and consists of thousands of metal plates(normally brass, but depends on the type of fluids being filtered) being stacked on top of each other, guided by rods, and then placed into a container seperating the inside from the outside. The tightness by which the plates are tightened down (trough torquing the rods) determines the filtration sizes. These filters are EXTREMELY expensive but can accurately filter down to 0,05micron. Flow rates depends on the filtration size requirements and decreases with the particle size requirement.

    These filters are normally equipped with a mechanical scraper system to clean the plates whilst in use thereby reducing maintenance downtime and cost.
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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henris View Post
    Yesterday we took the tanks off and they were spotless. Today we fitted the CF1000 and the UDF filters. We also added a small electric lift pump, just after the CF1000.
    We did a project at the Jwaneng Mine on the large Cat Off Highway Trucks with UDF - I've attached some photos of the installation on the trucks to show what it looks like.

    The filters were used as bypass filtration AND breathers to help achieve and maintain SAE 13/11 cleanliness levels.

    Fuel filtration did not work as the engines used engine oil burn systems whereby used oil is directed to the fuel tank to be burnt as fuel. The carbon / soot, even though the fuel was pre-filtered, ensured a very short fuel filter lifespan despite being double the quantity of the oil filters.
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  19. #39
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    Thanks everyone for all the advice on these filters and injectors. I am finally back to normal.
    1. I went to South Africa, struggling to get over 100km/h and with very uneven idling.
    2 I met up with Henris, who cleaned the tanks out completely as well as installing the filter system seen in the pictures. A GUD CF1000 (20micron) filter and water trap, followed by a small lift pump, followed by the OEM filter, followed by a UDF filter - 0.5 micron.
    3 I went onto Polokwane where Brian at Polokwane Diesel Services, installed a complete set of injectors in a very efficient manner.
    4 It now runs like new and the complete performance is there.
    5 I have done 2000km in the week since - in all conditions, from the highways down South to pulling a heavy trailer up to Mana Pools and the very muddy conditions.
    6. I have just got back and taken a picture of the filter set up as well as the UDF filter that has done 2000km, compared to the new one I have as spare. As I say this is after 2000km on two tanks of fuel - one from South Africa and one from Zimbabwe. Also, I used a Racor funnel/filter when putting fuel into the tank. I think this comparison shows the discoloration quite well, and that this pathetic OEM filter on its own is not sufficient.

    Thanks again to all...especially Henris who really went out of his way to help and be accommodating!
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  20. #40
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