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  1. #61
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    Default Re: Duel Battery set up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pieter de Waal View Post
    Hi Gavin
    I see lots of advice and goodwill but am still missing the following that might be your problem and what you actually asked for:
    You can roughly make your own calculation as to what you require from the system and what it can give you.
    The 80 litre size freezers looses more heat because of the larger surface area to ambient. The rate of heat loss also increases directly with the temp difference. Setting the inside temp to -15 with an ambient of 40 gives you a difference of 55 degrees. A good freezer can give you a max of close to 40 degrees in ideal circumstances. (40 degrees ambient and most probably insufficient ventilation is not ideal) This means the freezer cannot cope and will most probably run at close to 0 degrees even though it is trying its utmost to do better. (The biggest and best compressors in 12 V freezers are only about 60 W) This situation will improve somewhat with cooler night time temperature, but then it will try and catch up because you are asking for -15. (Still full blast)
    The short version, it is running full blast 24/7. Now the freezer guys tell you it will use 2 A or less on average. This may be true under their ideal conditions. Your situation requires the max. That means 7 A or more. This adds up to 24 x 7 = 168 Ah.
    Now look at the 20 A DC to DC charger. It supplies max 20 A in ideal conditions and quite often not. But lets give it the benefit of the doubt. You freezer is running flat out using 7 A of that supply. Let us assume the DC to DC charger and battery do a 100% conversion (which it does not) Let us say you drive for 8 hours every day. The total AH that the DC to DC can supply is 13 A 8 hours = 104.
    This means a shortfall of 64 A. Your requirement is more than your system can supply. This also assumes that you ran nothing else off the DC to DC !!!!
    This gives us the now famous complaint, it worked perfectly for the first two or three days and then the freezer stopped working and any amount of driving could not recharge the battery. (It worked perfectly for as long as it took you to eat up the reserve capacity in your battery when you left home)
    There are many ways one can adress this but first be aware of what you require. Make your own simple calculation while trying to keep it reasonable. Then find a sytem that can actually deliver what you require.
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  2. #62
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    Default Re: Duel Battery set up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pieter de Waal View Post
    Seems like you have an idea how the smart alternators are working. (I do not and would like to.) What you say makes perfect sense. I would like to sit down with you over a cup of coffee (I am prepared to supply) about this smart alternator thing. It is getting a lot of flack from the duel battery suppliers and I believe they are just looking for a culprit in cases where they do not understand their own system well enough to know it's limitations. Please send a private message with a phone number if you are prepared to have this discussion. What year is this vehicle with the smart alternator ?
    No, you rate my intelligence far higher than it actually is. The vehicle with the "smart" alternator is my 2007 Mercedes ML.

    What I have surmised from reading up on these systems are as follows. The load on the alternator is sensed by one of the ecu's in the vehicle. Whatever this load is determines the state in which the alternator operates. Obviously there must be various inputs into this particular control unit because load differs depending on which accessories are switched on at any given time, for instance when you switch on your headlights load will increase.

    There will also be a "buffer" zone of amps which may be drawn off the system without activating the high voltage circuit (To mitigate against variable power draw of factory accessories) of the alternator and it is here where I think the problems arise with regard to traditional dual battery systems which rely on a solenoid to couple the main battery to the secondary battery. As you well know batteries draw less and less current as they charge which may not always be what you want for your secondary battery. The alternator does not know that and will revert to "float charging" when the current draw falls into the correct parameter according to the ecu programming.
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  3. #63
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    Default Re: Dual Battery set up.

    I have run an Indel B in my bakkie off a National Luna battery box for 5 years now. Had exactly the same problems as the OP. After experiencing much aggravation, the 105ah deep cycle battery was condemned by a battery centre in JHB and Louis Trichardt when it was still new, however manufacturer sent it back no fault found. Four years later and I'm still using the same battery.

    I started focusing on keeping food "frozen to very cold" towards the end of trip. I try not to labour the fridge. e.g. when stationary on a hot day, if the fridge reads -3 I set it at -2 or if it gets chilly at night I may even switch it off. Early morning when it's still cool or when I'm driving, I crank it up. Takes a bit of management but have yet to have bad meat.

    Keep it full when vehicle stands at home.

    The National Luna ( running off two deep cycle batteries) in the caravan I set to not switch on at night as it disturbs my precious sleep. Everything stays frozen, including the ice.

    As an aside my deep freeze at home is set at -15 and it keeps ice cream frozen. That would be a bonus in CKGR.
    Last edited by Leapy; 2018/05/14 at 11:01 PM.
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  4. #64
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    Default Re: Dual Battery set up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wedwo View Post
    JKL

    Sorry not sure I understand

    My post was not meant for this thread.
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  5. #65
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    Default Re: Duel Battery set up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wedwo View Post
    I saw that there is an Australian 40 amp DC to DC charger on the market. Would that make a difference coupled with maybe turning the freezer down to -8 or so.

    Regards Gavin

    Look at this:

    http://currentautomation.co.za/dc-dc...ucts-14281/12v


    You don't have to get it from Australia!
    Last edited by mvcoller; 2018/05/15 at 11:24 AM.
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  7. #66
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    Default Re: Duel Battery set up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwayne P View Post
    skuus, die ingels my dalk laat verkeerd verduidelik. Die wit plug het 3 drade. Ontkoppel van hierdie haal die "SMART" uit die alternator op die Nissan Navara/Pathy's. Dan charge hy soos 'n gewone voertuig - heeltyd. Ek het op ausie Nissan forum gesien, hulle noem van op die alternator installeer hulle resistors(maar brei nie baie uit daaroor nie) en meerderheid noem van die groen draad knip en toe bind met insulation tape.

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  8. #67
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    Default Re: Duel Battery set up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Forgey View Post
    Hi Gavin

    Tell me, did your current (excuse the pun) setup work before?

    Are you certain that a battery negative cable was installed from the main battery to the second battery.

    I see you stay in JHB. I'm in Jukskei park(Fourways area) if you bring it over I'll take a look at it. I recently installed one of these ctek dc-dc controllers in a friend's patrol. He did a 10 day bots trip with no issues.
    So I went round to Anthony today for him to check out my system. Seem that all is working as it should and the calculations show that there is just to much draw on the battery. Fridge was drawing 7amps so simple calculation which others above had done was correct. Battery just not able to last the night at -15 and I suppose once the battery was too low the Ctek unit struggled to fully charge the battery again with the amount of driving being done. I have resolved to reduce the temperature of the freezer to around -8 when driving and get myself another Solar Panel to charge the battery box when I'm lying around in camp (normally 11am to 3pm when the sun should be at its best).

    Anthony great to meet you today and truly appreciate the help.

    Regards Gavin
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  9. #68
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    Default Re: Dual Battery set up.

    If I may ask, why do you need to run the fridge at -17?
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  10. #69
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    Default Re: Duel Battery set up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wedwo View Post
    So I went round to Anthony today for him to check out my system. Seem that all is working as it should and the calculations show that there is just to much draw on the battery. Fridge was drawing 7amps so simple calculation which others above had done was correct. Battery just not able to last the night at -15 and I suppose once the battery was too low the Ctek unit struggled to fully charge the battery again with the amount of driving being done. I have resolved to reduce the temperature of the freezer to around -8 when driving and get myself another Solar Panel to charge the battery box when I'm lying around in camp (normally 11am to 3pm when the sun should be at its best).

    Anthony great to meet you today and truly appreciate the help.

    Regards Gavin
    Great! Glad you are sorted out!

  11. #70
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    Default Re: Dual Battery set up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehog View Post
    If I may ask, why do you need to run the fridge at -17?
    Hegdgehog

    Part of my learning. I dont

    Regards Gavin
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  12. #71
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    Default Re: Dual Battery set up.

    hi Gavin

    you're welcome
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  13. #72
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    Default Re: Dual Battery set up.

    Thanks for all the advice Guys.

    Here is my next project. Center console and CTEK charge system for a Toyota LC 105. (1st AUX Batt in engine bay, 2nd AUX Batt behind passenger seat.)
    The reason I choose this location was to limit cable length and to keep the unit in a cool, clean dry environment (apparently the CTEK units don't to well in the engine bay is this true?)

    Also makes for easy monitoring.

    CTEK-MXS
    CTEK-D250S
    CTEK-SMART PASS

    Any advice? tips? Likes? Dislikes?
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    Last edited by Alain Braekevelt; 2018/05/21 at 04:42 AM.

  14. #73
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    Default Re: Dual Battery set up.

    Neat idea and yes, monitoring should be easy enough there.

    But that's a lot of cabling that needs to be neatly tucked away. So be sure that you incorporate an external fuse box also in that design which is easily accessible because for the cabling to be neat, you are probably going to have to route it under the floor mats.

    The only other problem I see, is that the Ctek will be close to one aux battery only, which is a problem in terms of cabling length you want to save, and the fact that the unit must have its heat probe at the aux battery's positive terminal to regulate itself depending on battery temperature.

    Or will those 2 aux batteries not be connected in parallel?

    One charged by the Ctek and the other only by the 220V MXS?

    Please give more details.
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  16. #74
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    Default Re: Dual Battery set up.

    So my plans are to get a 125watt solar panel to provide power to the fridge when not driving (and reduce freezer temp). This got me thinking. Would I be better off removing the freezer from the vehicle when at camp and have the battery box recharge via solar for the sunlight times or would I be better off having the battery box charge from the alternator when game driving and top up with the solar when parked in camp.

    Regards Gavin
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  17. #75
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    Default Re: Dual Battery set up.

    This goes back to your requirements. I can only work off examples but I have a Weaco 50 L that takes around 3.5 amps when the compressor is running. My little 100w semi flex can push around 5.5 amps at full tilt. So if everything is optimal then I can run the fridge and feed the battery. This however is in a perfect world and using a high cycle battery.

    Throw a deep cycle in that has been feeding a fridge all night and neither your alternator nor panels will do the job, you will be playing catch up all the time.

    Do the calculation that tells you how much power you need and then adopt your solar to match that plus some more
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  18. #76
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    Default Re: Duel Battery set up.

    I have now had it about 2 years. Been working perfect in my Isuzu and transferred to Navara. Still working as it should.
    Quote Originally Posted by getoutahere View Post
    How's well does your victron thingie work?

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    Post Re: Dual Battery set up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Die SwartKat View Post
    Neat idea and yes, monitoring should be easy enough there.But that's a lot of cabling that needs to be neatly tucked away. So be sure that you incorporate an external fuse box also in that design which is easily accessible because for the cabling to be neat, you are probably going to have to route it under the floor mats.The only other problem I see, is that the Ctek will be close to one aux battery only, which is a problem in terms of cabling length you want to save, and the fact that the unit must have its heat probe at the aux battery's positive terminal to regulate itself depending on battery temperature. Or will those 2 aux batteries not be connected in parallel? One charged by the Ctek and the other only by the 220V MXS? Please give more details.
    HI Nico.

    Noted on the cabling, might send them threw the center console and mount the fuse box inside? And yes I will be routing them under the floor mats.
    And again you are correct, the unit is far from the first (aux battery) but I will compensate with thicker cables. (at the moment the unit is fitted in the rear ie not ideal)(think this is as close as I can get to both Batteries with out going in the engine bay)

    Please find attached Circuit diagram.

    Thanks Nico

    Any Advice will be much appreciated
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    Last edited by Alain Braekevelt; 2018/05/21 at 07:02 PM.

  20. #78
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    Default Re: Dual Battery set up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alain Braekevelt View Post
    HI Nico.

    Noted on the cabling, might send them threw the center console and mount the fuse box inside? And yes I will be routing them under the floor mats.
    And again you are correct, the unit is far from the first (aux battery) but I will compensate with thicker cables. (at the moment the unit is fitted in the rear ie not ideal)(think this is as close as I can get to both Batteries with out going in the engine bay)

    Please find attached Circuit diagram.

    Thanks Nico

    Any Advice will be much appreciated
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  21. #79
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    Default Re: Dual Battery set up.

    Originally Posted by getoutahere
    How's well does your victron thingie work?

    I don't seem to have one of those on my Pathfinder!
    Malcolm van Coller - retired but remained living in Johannesburg (love it here, can find everything you want and need here in Jhb)
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  22. #80
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    Default Re: Dual Battery set up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alain Braekevelt View Post
    HI Nico.

    Noted on the cabling, might send them threw the center console and mount the fuse box inside? And yes I will be routing them under the floor mats.
    And again you are correct, the unit is far from the first (aux battery) but I will compensate with thicker cables. (at the moment the unit is fitted in the rear ie not ideal)(think this is as close as I can get to both Batteries with out going in the engine bay)

    Please find attached Circuit diagram.

    Thanks Nico

    Any Advice will be much appreciated
    Ok, I am no expert but I have done two of my own systems before.

    Also, my setup does not include the smart pass.

    So if I understand you correctly then:

    - 1st Aux will be in the engine bay;
    - 2nd Aux is in vehicle behind front seat;
    - These two will be connected in parallel with thick cabling;
    - The Ctek D250S will then be connected to the 2nd Aux in the vehicle with the heat probe at its + terminal

    If this is correct, then I cant see a problem apart from only one possible one. Might be a very small one.

    My thinking is this, and the experts must please assist here or correct me if I'm wrong.

    The D250S monitors the heat of the 2nd Aux (which should be very happy inside the vehicle) and constantly adjusts its charging current to ensure it is optimally charged.

    But, "half" of this happy battery is in the engine bay in the form of the 1st Aux. The D250S wont know this though. It sees only one battery.

    A battery that gets warm charges less well and slower. Well this on its own might not be a problem (batteries are in engine compartments all the time), the D250S might be merrily charging away on the cooler 2nd Aux, while the 1st Aux is taking strain as a result of this higher charging rate whilst it is much hotter and actually requires a slower rate of charging.

    Something could even go wrong with the 1st Aux and this may affect your 2nd Aux and you might find that the 2nd Aux also will not charge well.

    If the 1st Aux is completely buggered for some or other reason and you don't know this, it might even cause your 2nd Aux to heat up. Guessing here and I could be completely wrong, but this is the only small issue you might have.

    Ideally speaking those two batteries should at least be in the same environment so that their ambient temperature is the same.


    Ps. Also (but this is just me) I would not want a battery inside the vehicle with me. If something goes wrong in the way it charges and it heats up, there will be excessive gassing which is released into the vehicle which is a potential fire hazard and no doubt poisoness. Also, if not properly secured and tied down, it will become a lethal projectile in the event of a crash or roll over.
    Last edited by Die SwartKat; Yesterday at 12:24 PM.
    Nico Swart

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