May you fine employees?




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  1. #1
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    Default May you fine employees?

    example: Driver does not make sure he picks up a complete order - but still sign for a complete order. May I fine him legally?


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    Default Re: May you fine employees?

    There is very strict laws on this

    Employers may not deduct money from a worker’s pay unless –

    • the worker agrees in writing to the deduction of a debt, or
    • the deduction is made in terms of a collective agreement, law (e.g. UIF contributions), court order or arbitration award.

    If it is not in his contract then you will have to fight to be able to do this

    http://www.labour.gov.za/DOL/legisla...-to-deductions
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    Default Re: May you fine employees?

    Written warning. Disciplinary hearing. Follow the process.
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    Default Re: May you fine employees?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uys View Post
    example: Driver does not make sure he picks up a complete order - but still sign for a complete order. May I fine him legally?
    This falls under negligence or even malicious acts. You need to follow disciplinary action, and you could find yourself in big trouble for fining the individual.

    Even trying to get an employee to pay for damages caused is very risky.
    With regards to transferring road traffic fines, there are procedures to be followed and can be done.
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    Default Re: May you fine employees?

    I am not sure about these things but, damages can be recovered from an employee.
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    Default Re: May you fine employees?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stoffel View Post
    I am not sure about these things but, damages can be recovered from an employee.
    Only if the employee agrees to it
    Otherwise you need to follow the legal process.

    A company can not just say "You broke this you must pay" employees have legal defence against this
    Otherwise a company can say Koos who drove their R2 million rand truck made a mistake and wrote it off so Koos will now work for them for the rest of his life making up the money

    Obviously if you can prove there was malicious intent or negligence then you can take it further as Toothless said

    But you also need to be careful if you for instance say “Sign the paperwork for the money to be taken from your salary or we will proceed with an disciplinary process” then you are breaking the rules and can be nailed.

    If you have a good relationship with the employee then you can communicate with them.
    But then you also have to remember that there is limits to what you can deduct at any point even if the employee signed the documents (I believe it is max 25% of their salary)
    Last edited by Veneficus; 1 Week Ago at 12:41 PM.
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    Default Re: May you fine employees?

    Agree on damages but the OP mentioned a discrepancy in quantities signed for vs received.
    Therefore it could be concluded that the employee lost/stole the missing items and is legally responsible.

    Disclaimer: My uneducated opinion only.
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    Default Re: May you fine employees?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hagu13 View Post
    Agree on damages but the OP mentioned a discrepancy in quantities signed for vs received.
    Therefore it could be concluded that the employee lost/stole the missing items and is legally responsible.

    Disclaimer: My uneducated opinion only.
    Yes legally responsible
    In our country if you commit a crime you get arrested and have to appear in court

    Same idea applies with employee who lost something or stole from you.
    If he lost it through incompetence or not putting effort in then you have to follow the legal process to take this up so you start with disciplinary procedures.
    If he stole from you then the same applies however you can also then add legal procedures in there like getting him arrested and laying charge with the police

    At no point does it give you the right to just deduct money from his salary.
    If you want that then he either needs to agree with it (which he can do if you ask him)
    Or you need to follow the legal process to force him to do so.

    Remember the money you pay him is not your money anymore he got it by delivering a service.
    and the processes is in place if he did not deliver the service properly anymore.

    So just taking the money without his agreement or following the legal processes can in certain senses be considered theft
    Last edited by Veneficus; 1 Week Ago at 01:07 PM.
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    Default Re: May you fine employees?

    Our drivers are responsible for all stock once they leave the premises. They agreed to sign a contract prior to leaving stating that x amount was correctly loaded into their vehicles. If they arrive at their last customer and the vehicle is empty they either over delivered, kept or sold the stock which they must pay for.

    We also have cameras at all loading bays where we can count what goes out together with the drivers and we also do stock take on a daily basis for balancing purposes.

    Our suppliers also ask for calibration certificates of our scales because when their drivers deliver the weights do not correspond to the delivery notes therefore they have no choice but to charge their drivers.

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    Default Re: May you fine employees?

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    Written warning. Disciplinary hearing. Follow the process.
    ^^ This, but whatever you do, don't call it poor work performance. Then you have to counsel and train and be able to prove there is a standard that he once complied to. Negligence in cases where there is no monetary loss, gross negligence where there is. If I am correct, you can dismiss on second incidence of gross negligence.

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    Default Re: May you fine employees?

    What all the above posts are saying, and I fully agree, is that there is no easy or short cut method when it comes to employee discipline.

    Provided it is adequately explained in advance, and the rules are consistently and fairly applied, you can expect buy in from your staff.

    It's very much like watching a rugby match - if the referee is fair and consistent in his interpretations, then there will be player acceptance. And maybe even from the spectators!

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    Default Re: May you fine employees?

    My employer who is the state has a "corrective measure""sanction" in place where after a hearing you are found guilty may deduct 1 to a maximum of 2 months salary.

    This is legal and may replace serious or final written warnings. Thus just short of being dismissed. So Im sure that such an corrective measure may be included in the disciplinary process of the company.

    I know of a few personnel that was disciplined in this fashion and was unsuccessful at the CCMA.

  16. #13
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    Default Re: May you fine employees?

    You can't fine, and warnings etc are the order of the day.

    My BIL came up with another solution for one of his front end loaders in a quarry who got 2 or 3 punctures every week, costing a few thousand to fix every time: He offered him a bonus of about R2k per month if he had no bonus. The first month, he only had 2 punctures, no bonus. Thereafter no more punctures. win-win
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    Default Re: May you fine employees?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uys View Post
    example: Driver does not make sure he picks up a complete order - but still sign for a complete order. May I fine him legally?

    Had a few same-type situations which we tried to act upon.
    During arbitration, the driver just said that he was not skilled and had no knowledge of what he was collecting and trusted that what he received was the right items.
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    Default Re: May you fine employees?

    If a guy loose his safety boots he pays.
    Don't call it a fine.
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    Default Re: May you fine employees?

    A chap I know owns a big electrical contracting business. If a truck inspection is done and the wheel chocks are missing,or his safety equipment is missing,the get fined. The fined money is pooled for the end of the year staff party,it is written into their contact.
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    Default Re: May you fine employees?

    I spietkop skryf n fine, gebruik die wetgewing, dis daar om jou en die werker te beskerm.
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  22. #18
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    Default Re: May you fine employees?

    Fortunately the law does protect the employee. The employee also has rights.
    But there are ways and means to discipline and fine...there are procedures to follow.
    You can't just take it off his pay.....

    Sometimes things can get very complicated so we just used labour lawyers to do the job.
    Sometimes its just worth it.
    I can understand why employees have rights, in the past they were just told to take
    their jacket and go.....and most was just unfair.

    In Uys's post, it looks simple enough to sit down with the employee and ask the questions
    civilly, employees are also human and do make mistakes.
    Then issue the warning in writing if it happens again there will be consequences.

    We must remember employees aren't bosses, some don't understand some of the importance of their job.
    Last edited by OFFROAD ADDICT; 1 Week Ago at 05:42 PM.


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