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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Discussion point - why it's always been hard to build a V6....

    What sets the reliability apart between these Nissan, Landy and VW V6 diesels on the design characteristics

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Discussion point - why it's always been hard to build a V6....

    Ek dink die landy engine is te lig gebou om al daardie torque op 1500 rpm oor te dra aan n 2.5 ton voertuig.
    In die ligter Peugeots hou hulle, maar in disco 3/4 met lae rpm aplikasie snap die toleransie.

    Maar dit is net my opinie...
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  4. #23
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    Default Re: Discussion point - why it's always been hard to build a V6....

    En vir daardie selfde rede glo ek my v9x v6 diesel is n goeie roep in my 2 ton Navara, maar nie bedoel vir my 2.5 ton Patrol. En blykbaar stem nissan saam, en het geweier om dit daar in uit te bring.

    Ek sal goeie geld wed die v9x sou ook aansienlikke bottom end probleme in n swaarder patrol tipe aplikasie gehad het
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    Default Re: Discussion point - why it's always been hard to build a V6....

    Ek bly dink die beste diesel is n reguit 6, turbo intercooled. Maar long bonnets is deesdae nie meer die in ding in high end suv's nie
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  7. #25
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    Default Re: Discussion point - why it's always been hard to build a V6....

    Quote Originally Posted by Reenen View Post
    Ek bly dink die beste diesel is n reguit 6, turbo intercooled. Maar long bonnets is deesdae nie meer die in ding in high end suv's nie
    Jy's reg.
    i6 en V8 is meganies net superior.
    V6 is net vir verkope...
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    Default Re: Discussion point - why it's always been hard to build a V6....

    OM642 at 72 degrees - a phenomenal V6 diesel.



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    Default Re: Discussion point - why it's always been hard to build a V6....

    En dan die W9 en Radial 5/7/9 engins.
    Eksoties, maar meganies stroop.

    https://youtu.be/hvpFcSPtDV0
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    Default Re: Discussion point - why it's always been hard to build a V6....

    Quote Originally Posted by swakop_toe View Post
    En dan die W9 en Radial 5/7/9 engins.
    Eksoties, maar meganies stroop.

    https://youtu.be/hvpFcSPtDV0

    actually... I've been looking at Radial engines quite a lot recently for various reasons.

    love them...

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    Default Re: Discussion point - why it's always been hard to build a V6....

    I rate this one of the best threads in a while!
    I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right!

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    Default Re: Discussion point - why it's always been hard to build a V6....

    Quote Originally Posted by KobusDJ View Post
    Nissan got it right with those VG engines... and later the VQ

    .


    F1 is running 1.6L 90° V6 engines. Up to 15000RPM. Sounds smooth to me.

    .

    I believe the VG is a Renault motor?

    to be fair.

    I think that most big diesel motors for decades - from Merc, Renault/Dacis/Nissan , Ford, VW, to ADE in Cape Town etc are all straight 6 turbo diesels for the ahromenttioned advantages in vibration, which massively increases service life.

    F1... I think a lot of the 90 degree thing was (A) because racing motors don't care about vibration, most V8s were flat planed cranks because a flat plane crank made the exhaust arrangement easier. made more power, but made your teeth smooth. and (b) they needed space in the Vee for the recovery mechanisms.

    F1 motors don't have to last long....

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    Default Re: Discussion point - why it's always been hard to build a V6....

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainier Vermaak View Post
    OM642 at 72 degrees - a phenomenal V6 diesel.
    I was about to ask about this. The OM642's stellar reputation is by and large the only reason I eventually chose it over a Hemi. Honestly, 2 years later I still cross paths with a Hemi every now and then and wonder "what if?" I digress......... What did the Germans do differently with the OM642? Just the angle? Why? 12 years going strong, cranking out 195kW/620Nm in the latest versions, and still powering just about every 3XX model Merc across their entire range to this day.

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    Default Re: Discussion point - why it's always been hard to build a V6....

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    I believe the VG is a Renault motor?
    Nope. Ancient Nissan engines. The VG30 and VG33 powered various Hardbody's in SA since the 1980's

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    Default Re: Discussion point - why it's always been hard to build a V6....

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    actually... I've been looking at Radial engines quite a lot recently for various reasons.

    love them...
    Ditto Alex...far off topic, but, wow...

    R-2600-3 - 1,600 hp (1,194 kW)
    R-2600-12 - 1,700 hp (1,268 kW)
    R-2600-13 - 1,700 hp (1,268 kW)
    R-2600-20 - 1,900 hp (1,420 kW)
    R-2600-29 - 1,850 hp (1,380 kW)

    [Specifications (GR-2600-C14)
    General characteristics
    Type: 14-cylinder supercharged air-cooled two-row radial engine
    Bore: 6.125 in (155.6 mm)
    Stroke: 6.312 in (160.2 mm)
    Displacement: 2,603 in³ (42.7 L)
    Length: 62.06 in (1,576 mm)
    Diameter: 55 in (1,397 mm)
    Dry weight: 2,045 lb (930 kg)

    -------------------------------------------------
    Then this...the F4U Corsair...
    R750k for a DIY kit...

    With a R-2800...
    General characteristics

    Type: 18-cylinder air-cooled twin-row radial engine with water injection
    Bore: 5.75 in (146.05 mm)
    Stroke: 6 in (152.4 mm)
    Displacement: 2,804.5 in³ (45.96 L)
    Length: 81.4 in (2,068 mm)
    Diameter: 52.8 in (1,342 mm)
    Dry weight: 2,360 lb (1,073 kg)

    Components

    Valvetrain: Poppet, two valves per cylinder
    Supercharger: Variable-speed (in F8F-2, unified with throttle via AEC automatic engine control), single-stage single-speed centrifugal type supercharger
    Fuel system: One Stromberg injection carburetor
    Fuel type: 100/130 octane gasoline
    Cooling system: Air-cooled

    Performance

    Power output: 2,100 hp (1,567 kW) @ 2,700 rpm
    Specific power: 0.75 hp/in³ (34.1 kW/L)
    Power-to-weight ratio: 0.89 hp/lb (1.46 kW/kg)
    Last edited by swakop_toe; 2017/09/13 at 08:06 PM.
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  21. #34
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    Default Re: Discussion point - why it's always been hard to build a V6....

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    I believe the VG is a Renault motor?

    to be fair.

    I think that most big diesel motors for decades - from Merc, Renault/Dacis/Nissan , Ford, VW, to ADE in Cape Town etc are all straight 6 turbo diesels for the ahromenttioned advantages in vibration, which massively increases service life.

    F1... I think a lot of the 90 degree thing was (A) because racing motors don't care about vibration, most V8s were flat planed cranks because a flat plane crank made the exhaust arrangement easier. made more power, but made your teeth smooth. and (b) they needed space in the Vee for the recovery mechanisms.

    F1 motors don't have to last long....
    Die enigste 6 in die nissan/ Renault stal wat van Renault kom, is die v9x. Die res is suiwer nissan. En die franses is nie onbeholpe met diesel of 6 nie, so nog steeds n goeie huwelik.

    Die v9x, al is dit 10 jaar oud, bly selfs nog in vandag se tegnologie kompeterend. Amarok se v6 is nog steeds nie by hom.
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  22. #35
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    Default Re: Discussion point - why it's always been hard to build a V6....

    I'm not going to even try to read the whole of Apocs post, or the rest of the thread.

    I will say what I believe.

    V6 motors are cr&p. All V6 motors, without exception. They are based on the bundling of two rubbish (technically speaking) 3 cylinder motors into one ugly bundle of 6 cylinders.

    They don't rev, they don't have low down torque, they have no heart, they are rubbish. Never ever met, driven, heard, or owned one I like. Period.

    Hell can there ever be a more unmade in heaven match than two 3 cylinder unbalanced sowing machines bolted together.

    -------------------

    But a 4 cylinder, that's balanced, and buzzes like a bumble bee. Cant fault it, it just works. From low down torque, to zzzzz smooth perfection. A 4 cylinder has that immediate throttle response, that a V6 will NEVER have.

    Now take two 4 cylinders, make a V8, and you get. - Everything a 4 cylinder offers X 2. Torque, response, smooth, power, balance, and a HUGE smile.
    Cheers

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  23. #36
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    Default Re: Discussion point - why it's always been hard to build a V6....

    Quote Originally Posted by Reenen View Post
    Ek dink die landy engine is te lig gebou om al daardie torque op 1500 rpm oor te dra aan n 2.5 ton voertuig.
    In die ligter Peugeots hou hulle, maar in disco 3/4 met lae rpm aplikasie snap die toleransie.

    Maar dit is net my opinie...
    In Aus kan mens die Ford Territorykoop met dieselfde engine, en volgens wat ek kon kry het hulle nie probleme nie, so ek dink jy het 'n punt beet met torque vs gewig dalk.
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    Default Re: Discussion point - why it's always been hard to build a V6....

    Quote Originally Posted by Reenen View Post
    Ek bly dink die beste diesel is n reguit 6, turbo intercooled. Maar long bonnets is deesdae nie meer die in ding in high end suv's nie
    Ek moet bietjie 'n opname maak as my buurman weer ry, 98 Patrol 4.2 met turbo en intercooler, klink absoluut fantasties, groot trok se engine klank uit die patrol uit.
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    Default Re: Discussion point - why it's always been hard to build a V6....

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirk View Post
    In Aus kan mens die Ford Territorykoop met dieselfde engine, en volgens wat ek kon kry het hulle nie probleme nie, so ek dink jy het 'n punt beet met torque vs gewig dalk.
    Die engine word in verskeie aplikasies gebruik. Net in die discos het hulle probleme.

    Hoe ek dit sien, en baie mense skiet my opinie af, so let wel, net my beskeie leuke opinie.

    2.5 ton voertuig, 1500 rpm, baie torque. Nou ry jy die voertuig in te lae rpm, die load op crank is masief, die main en bigend bearings is bitter smal. Die oppervlak area van die bearings kan net nie die torque op daai klein area hanteer, gooi n bietjie harmonisie wanbalans in, en jy sit met bottom end probleme.

    In ligter voertuig aplikasies is dit nie genieg om die drumpelwaarde te oorskry nie. Sit egter n lekker swaar sleepwa agter een van daai ander voertuie met selfde engine, wie weet, dalk kalf hulle ook.

    Wie weet, miskien weet Toyota dit al lankal, dus die 1500kg beperking op sleep op baie van hul swaarder voertuie...
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  27. #39
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    Default Re: Discussion point - why it's always been hard to build a V6....

    Quote Originally Posted by Reenen View Post
    Die engine word in verskeie aplikasies gebruik. Net in die discos het hulle probleme.

    Hoe ek dit sien, en baie mense skiet my opinie af, so let wel, net my beskeie leuke opinie.

    2.5 ton voertuig, 1500 rpm, baie torque. Nou ry jy die voertuig in te lae rpm, die load op crank is masief, die main en bigend bearings is bitter smal. Die oppervlak area van die bearings kan net nie die torque op daai klein area hanteer, gooi n bietjie harmonisie wanbalans in, en jy sit met bottom end probleme.

    In ligter voertuig aplikasies is dit nie genieg om die drumpelwaarde te oorskry nie. Sit egter n lekker swaar sleepwa agter een van daai ander voertuie met selfde engine, wie weet, dalk kalf hulle ook.

    Wie weet, miskien weet Toyota dit al lankal, dus die 1500kg beperking op sleep op baie van hul swaarder voertuie...
    Het al voorheen vir jou gese dat ek dink die V9X n goeie roep sou wees in die Patrol. Het lank gedink ek moet met jou stry daaroor.
    Baie van wat jy te se het maak ongelooflik baie sin, selfs die Toyotas se law sleep vermoe.
    Miskien is die Japs nie so dom soos wat ons dink nie ne?
    Hou so aan. Die Thread is n goeie een om te volg.

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    Default Re: Discussion point - why it's always been hard to build a V6....

    Quote Originally Posted by Reenen View Post
    Die engine word in verskeie aplikasies gebruik. Net in die discos het hulle probleme.

    Hoe ek dit sien, en baie mense skiet my opinie af, so let wel, net my beskeie leuke opinie.

    2.5 ton voertuig, 1500 rpm, baie torque. Nou ry jy die voertuig in te lae rpm, die load op crank is masief, die main en bigend bearings is bitter smal. Die oppervlak area van die bearings kan net nie die torque op daai klein area hanteer, gooi n bietjie harmonisie wanbalans in, en jy sit met bottom end probleme.

    In ligter voertuig aplikasies is dit nie genieg om die drumpelwaarde te oorskry nie. Sit egter n lekker swaar sleepwa agter een van daai ander voertuie met selfde engine, wie weet, dalk kalf hulle ook.

    Wie weet, miskien weet Toyota dit al lankal, dus die 1500kg beperking op sleep op baie van hul swaarder voertuie...
    to be very fair, for the reasons I've detailed above.... V6 cranks are the weakest by virtue of their design.

    you can design them to be strong by making the motor longer - take a 3.8 Dodge/Jeep motor - it's a lot of motor, strap on a supercharger and it takes it.

    but if a V6 gives up - it's always the crank. generally speaking, in my experience, A V8 or a straight 4/5/6/8 will toss a rod, but a V6 tosses the crank every time.

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