Man killed - recovery - Page 4




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  1. #61
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    Default Re: Man killed - recovery

    Quote Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPXixsvjDjY

    I am confident for the front, it's the rear I worry about.
    I would still have a look at the fronts because those were light tugs in the video. If the vehicle was bogged the first thing to usually snap is the tow type hooks.

    The front OEM one on my Jeep was the same story. Although it wasn't factory rated, it was a bolted on bracket affair that I was extremely confident with.

  2. #62
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    Default Re: Man killed - recovery

    Just a question.... what makes a person a 4x4 expert (or recovery expert )?

  3. #63
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    Default Re: Man killed - recovery

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartho View Post
    Just a question.... what makes a person a 4x4 expert (or recovery expert )?
    Good question. There are some forum members that run courses, I am sure there is a qualification of some kind.
    Lusted for a Landy but the Pajero was sexier and bigger in the right departments, just like my Missus.

    2004 Gen 3. 3.8i petrol V6 (PAJTU)
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  4. #64
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    Default Re: Man killed - recovery

    I will start a new thread regarding this not to highjack this one

  5. #65
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    Default Re: Man killed - recovery

    Looking at the front tie-down points on my Hilux, they seem pretty robust to me. Loops of 15 mm round bar (probably MS, I admit), with enough weld length to trust. And there are two of them, and I carry a bridle which I would use so that the load is evenly distributed. This all theoretical, as I have never been snatched.

    My question is: Who has actually seen one of these points fail during a snatch, and what was the failure mode? Did the loop simply tear in the middle by plastic failure, or did the welds fail,or what?

    Not that I would argue with the experts, I am just interested.

  6. #66
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    Default Re: Man killed - recovery

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartho View Post
    Just a question.... what makes a person a 4x4 expert (or recovery expert )?
    There is no such thing. Some people just know more than other. Some builds and develop recovery gear and knows people with toyotas so they recover a lot more. Some claim to do a 3 day course and become a expert.

    Who gave the DR his first drs degree. And who gave the first engineer his degree?

    So generally, the man with one eye is king in a blind country.
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  8. #67
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    Default Re: Man killed - recovery

    Quote Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
    What is the forum opinion on these please
    I build them, but the average cars recovery point will cut them. And at 5 times the price as I use around 2.5m Spectra 12.
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  9. #68
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    Default Re: Man killed - recovery

    Quote Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPXixsvjDjY

    I am confident for the front, it's the rear I worry about.

    That is not by any chance an indication of a kinetic recovery. That pajero is not stuck. Do to be fooled by the 3T load either,
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  11. #69
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    Default Re: Man killed - recovery

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartho View Post
    Just a question.... what makes a person a 4x4 expert (or recovery expert )?
    I dunno. Depends who you ask. I've seen some so-called qualified trainers/experts that don't even have half a clue & who get it very very wrong.

  12. #70
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    Default Re: Man killed - recovery

    Quote Originally Posted by Soutie View Post
    I have completed both unit standards for 4x4 Driving as well as a recovery course.
    Didn't you find it odd that neither of the US covered vehicle recoveries?

  13. #71
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    Default Re: Man killed - recovery

    Quote Originally Posted by RodS View Post

    My question is: Who has actually seen one of these points fail during a snatch, and what was the failure mode? Did the loop simply tear in the middle by plastic failure, or did the welds fail,or what?

    .
    Me. The welds snap clean off during the softest of snatches. Even winching.

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  15. #72
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    Default Re: Man killed - recovery

    Quote Originally Posted by XJ Junkie View Post
    Me. The welds snap clean off during the softest of snatches. Even winching.
    Good enough. I will get some rated hooks fitted next week.

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  17. #73
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    Default Man killed - recovery

    Quote Originally Posted by RodS View Post
    Good enough. I will get some rated hooks fitted next week.
    I was looking for a video for you of how easily the welds went, but I can't find the thing.

    Edit: although I'm not opposed to big welds on big & chunky proper recovery plates/brackets.
    Last edited by XJ Junkie; 2017/06/19 at 09:08 PM.

  18. #74
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    Default Re: Man killed - recovery

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    I would think that's pretty obvious. If you are old and still alive it means you didn't die young.

    As a community, we on the forum are fortunate to be aware of the dangers. I give a wide burth when a recovery is in progress. Before joining here I would have had the faintest clue as to the real dangers.

    RIP.
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  19. #75
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    Default Re: Man killed - recovery

    Quote Originally Posted by XJ Junkie View Post
    Me. The welds snap clean off during the softest of snatches. Even winching.

    The guys use arc welding and if not treated can be brittle. I use co2 on welds, proper welding prepared with about 4 runs. Then bolts if I can. But I can promise you that you will tear the steel off and not break the bolts.
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  20. #76
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    Default Re: Man killed - recovery

    Quote Originally Posted by Engel View Post
    The guys use arc welding and if not treated can be brittle. I use co2 on welds, proper welding prepared with about 4 runs. Then bolts if I can. But I can promise you that you will tear the steel off and not break the bolts.
    I'm sure you meant to say "I put proper weld preps and use suitable electrodes". There is no more or less "brittle" with stick versus MAG.

    The issue as with most engineering is the devil is in the details, and with recovery points you need to transfer loads from great big stiff brackets to thin tissue paper. This can be tricky.

  21. #77
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    Default Re: Man killed - recovery

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    This is where I put my money for the actual 'killer towball'

    not the standard gooseneck ones. those may well come loose when fitted with the wrong bolts or when fitted incorrectly, but the neck is not a weak point.

    I got one of these horrible things with my 2" receiver for the Jeep and I was horrified to say the least.

    Pretty poor quality steel with a (I think) 20mm thread machined to the bottom of the ball.

    the worst part is that even if you pull it up tight, the radius on the end of the thread means it doesn't seat onto the supplied 6mm plate - it's got a gap.

    If you see one of these.... run away. I wouldn't hitch a Ventertjie to one of these balls.

    Attachment 450634
    Well he should (probability speaking) have been using one of these:


  22. #78
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    Default Re: Man killed - recovery

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceB View Post
    Well he should (probability speaking) have been using one of these:

    probably the single most dangerous product in recovery ever.
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  23. #79
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    Default Re: Man killed - recovery

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceB View Post
    I'm sure you meant to say "I put proper weld preps and use suitable electrodes". There is no more or less "brittle" with stick versus MAG.

    The issue as with most engineering is the devil is in the details, and with recovery points you need to transfer loads from great big stiff brackets to thin tissue paper. This can be tricky.
    Standard electrodes that most people use in their backyards are not as strong as co2.
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  24. #80
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    Default Re: Man killed - recovery

    Quote Originally Posted by Engel View Post
    probably the single most dangerous product in recovery ever.
    Well that's standard practice in Qld, so in that case you know what came through the rear window.

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