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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Home Solar System Help Please

    I take some pics. Price was 1300.00. Can measure single and three phase

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  3. #22
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    Default Re: Home Solar System Help Please

    Here's one.
    Fortuner D4D
    Jurgens XCAPE

  4. #23
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    Default Re: Home Solar System Help Please

    Quote Originally Posted by Erwin Schimper View Post
    I take some pics. Price was 1300.00. Can measure single and three phase
    Why is the make and model? Sounds like a brilliant device.

    Searching for serenity in Africa.



  5. #24
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    Default Re: Home Solar System Help Please

    Another one.

  6. #25
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    Default Re: Home Solar System Help Please

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof View Post
    Another one.
    That is the one. You get single and three phase. You can use the three phase also to check single phase.

  7. #26
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    Default Re: Home Solar System Help Please

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof View Post
    My friend has sixteen panels...runs his house from 08h00 till sunset on just those panels....dishwasher, washing machine...

    The last eight he put up were 250W, others 150W....runs two Outback MPPT controllers

    Grrrr!
    I am asking why he (Kadafi) has 16 panels for only 4 batteries....
    Last edited by Dungbeetle; 2017/05/17 at 07:42 PM.
    2000 Patrol GU 4.2D(onkey)

  8. #27
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    Default Re: Home Solar System Help Please

    Quote Originally Posted by Dungbeetle View Post
    Grrrr!
    I am asking why he (Kadafi) has 16 panels for only 4 batteries....
    Its not a camping system. Its a home.

    The panels are to run the house. The batteries are only there for mains failures or possibly very limited running of the home.

    Kinda analogous to - my home is connected to a 40GW grid of coal powered stations and a Nuclear plant, but I only have a 5kW Ryobi Chinese special generator.
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD Yeasu Ft-897D
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  10. #28
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    Default Re: Home Solar System Help Please

    Batteries cost every cycle you use them them. Some basic explanation : R20000 for 4x 260 ah agm gel batteries , these batteries can run your house for 4 -5 hrs per night to 50% DOD (well my house anyways). You get around 1900 cycles out of them. So its R20000 / 1900, aka R10.52 per day and R326.31 per month.

    The rub after doing this for a week now is that unless I increase the number of solar panels, the power that should be used to power the house in the morning is used to charge the batteries. The net effect is I'm simply exchanging day power usage for night power usage at present while cycling the batteries. something to think about. My setup only allows charging from solar.

    Also check these out : https://www.solaredge.com/products/power-optimizer#/

    They bypass a single panel inefficiency or (multiple) in a string due to a number of factors including shading maximizing yield.

    other useful links

    http://suncalc.net

    http://pvwatts.nrel.gov/pvwatts.php

    Get this software

    http://www.solmetric.com/downloads-suneye.html

    Depending on the inverter get this (works for voltronics inverters, axpert, infinisolar etc and has local support) :

    http://iccsoftware.co.za/

    My media pc monitors the inverter via a separate session 24hrs, which I can access via my tablet anywhere/anytime with remote desktop. The media pc works as per normal and no one even sees the app in the background. Great for catching teenagers playing games after school or even checking on the washing being done.

    Lastly, I removed my geyser and kitchen from the inverter output side, during the day they feed off the grid tie saving money, at night they power off the grid. Keep this in mind while measuring with your power usage gadget as these use the most peak power in any household and may add to system cost where the cost via the grid is a few hundred per month by simply bypassing and getting a smaller system for the rest of the loads. My savings remain substantial (R1800 to R600, second month now) although the battery cycling is likely to stop soon as its just pointless. ROI for power only seems to be in the 3 year mark.
    Last edited by nitrious; 2017/05/17 at 10:11 PM.

  11. #29
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    Default Re: Home Solar System Help Please

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof View Post
    My friend has sixteen panels...runs his house from 08h00 till sunset on just those panels....dishwasher, washing machine...

    The last eight he put up were 250W, others 150W....runs two Outback MPPT controllers
    How do you run appliances directly off of solar, what device regulates the pv output?

  12. #30
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    Default Re: Home Solar System Help Please

    I'm impressed - some of you know your stuff! Hoping not to hijack the thread, but I think it fits in

    We're having a new house built, in Pretoria. Kids have moved on, so only the mrs and I. Will have plenty N-facing roof space, 25 degrees roof pitch.
    Opportunity knocks, and I'll appreciate comments on my plans.

    Initially I thought to go completely off grid. But there is simply no payback on batteries, so I no longer plan to fit any.

    My objectives are:
    - obtain a degree of independence & cost savings by running off PV's at day time (mrs @ home)
    - have some backup for convenience' sake, in event of a power failure after hours
    - fit quality components, using reputable suppliers

    Current plan is as follows:

    Hot water (3 x full bathrooms, servant's quarters, kitchen):
    - Only 1 bathroom will ordinarily be in use (only the 2 of us), and since the roof of this particular section is east & west pitched, I plan to fit a heat pump rather than fitting a solar system and pipe the water across 10m to the shower. 2 x 10min showers needed at in the evenings.
    - The other 2 bathrooms will be used 2 months a year and can be fitted with a 2 x 100L (2kW) electric geysers, fitted with timers to limit run-time to 2 hours before shower time.
    - Kitchen can have a 10L (1.5kW) under counter water heater (Kwikot), fitted with a timer which I'll fine tune over time to match demand.

    Electricity
    - Kitchen will be fitted with energy efficient appliances.
    - Lights will be LED
    - Plan is to run off 2 DB's
    - DB1 will feed non-essentials, i.e. electric geysers, oven, induction hob, kettle, washing machine.
    - DB2 will feed essentials, i.e. heat pump, lights, refrigerator, dish washer, PC + aux, TV + aux, and a few wall sockets used to charge phones etc.

    - DB1 will consume 7kW / day
    - DB2 will consume 19kW / day, of which 10kW will be used between 10:00-15:00 (during which time PV panels should be reasonably efficient, even during winter)

    - DB1 will draw from Eskom, with no backup.
    - DB2 will draw from PV's, with Eskom as first backup and a 6kW generator as second backup (connected via auto switch-over panel) [Can this all be done?]


    - The overall anticipated result is thus to take 40% of our consumption off Eskom, and to have a generator lurking for outages (much cheaper than batteries)

    - Using staggering / timers on DB2, 'maximum demand' off the PV's will be 3,300 Wh.


    PV set-up
    - I'm thinking 16 x 250W panels (4,000 Wh).. but not sure what the efficiency to expect i.e. how do I match supply to demand (max 3.3kW as mentioned above)
    - All sorts of inverters, timers, etc.. that's what the pro's are for.


    I need some comments please
    Currently speaking to a supplier, but I also need input from people who are not looking at my wallet!

    thanks

    Jaco
    2014 T'reg 3.6L V6
    2011 SLK 350

    Prev: D4 XS, D3 TDV6, D2 V8, D1 V8 (x4), RRC, Paj V6 (x2), Patrol 4.8L

  13. #31
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    Default Re: Home Solar System Help Please

    Bump tity bump bump.
    Bump bump.
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD Yeasu Ft-897D
    2 V8's a V6 and an inline 4
    The nice thing about going the extra mile - the road is never congested.

  14. #32
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    Default Re: Home Solar System Help Please

    Quote Originally Posted by Skylark View Post
    How do you run appliances directly off of solar, what device regulates the pv output?
    The solar controllers regulates what goes to the batteries....the inverter draws from there to make 220V. Simplistically.
    Last edited by Prof; 2017/05/18 at 09:43 AM. Reason: Add word

  15. #33
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    Default Re: Home Solar System Help Please

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof View Post
    The solar controllers regulates what goes to the batteries....the inverter draws from there to make 220V. Simplistically.
    An earlier post​ seemed to imply not having batteries and drawing only from the Pv panels, which is why I asked, from what I understand that's not possible you have to have some batteries at least?

    If you only want to use Pv during the day how many batteries would you need to allow you to run appliances/household etc from pv, ie you have say 15 x 300w Pv panels and you want to be able to run them at full capacity on a sunny day. I'm assuming you'll need sufficient batteries to be able to supply the maximum theoretical draw the inverter would pull relative to the Pv output and the Pv would be continually be replacing in the batteries what the inverter draws?

    How does that useage scenario affect the batteries?

  16. #34
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    Default Re: Home Solar System Help Please

    The Hybrid inverter should supply the load directly from the pv and grid leaving the batteries out of the equation. Generally battery cycling is an expensive exercise and should be avoided.

    So lets say your generating 1500w out of your pv for whatever reason and your load is 2500w, then your Hybrid inverter will first supply the 1500w from the pv and draw the balance from the grid. No batteries.

    Axperts cannot combine pv and grid power and will use one or the other depending on pv supply and load requirement but remain a good cost effective power backup solution. For daily use I'd go hybrid as a must.

    The hybrid Infinisolar 3kw Plus (same people as Axpert) I have supplies first from pv, then grid. Only if there's no grid then pv and batteries, surplus is also feed back to the grid. It has turns off grid tie automatically if the grid goes down for technician safety.

    Extra feature is you can put out 3000w from PV and and an extra 3000w combined at once from the grid to make 6000w peak should you need it. Max on its pv is 4500w. So wriggle room should it be needed.
    Last edited by nitrious; 2017/05/20 at 04:11 PM.

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  18. #35
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    Default Re: Home Solar System Help Please

    Quote Originally Posted by Erwin Schimper View Post
    Got these meters from Ellies. Easy to install and give you all the data you need. Once installed you can switch on and off appliances and see what the kw usages is. Shows daily weekly monthly usage. Logs it and you can download it to your PC. This can help to determine the size of your solar system. I am installinh a 10kW grid tie system which I shall convert to full solar in the next few years
    The Effergy meter doesn't show true power, only aparant power. In layman's terms: Just about anything with a motor generally use more power to produce it's rated power. i.e. 2000W motor, with a power factor of 0.8 needs 2400W to produce 2000w output. Some devices have 0.7 power factor, and sometimes even worse, like 0.6


    A 10W LED light could easily have a power factor of 0.8, thus using 12W to produce 10W.


    So even though it gives you a good idea of your consumption, it isn't 100% accurate. To be safe, add 30% - 40% of it's stated usage.

  19. #36
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    Default Re: Home Solar System Help Please

    Quote Originally Posted by SilverNodashi View Post
    The Effergy meter doesn't show true power, only aparant power. In layman's terms: Just about anything with a motor generally use more power to produce it's rated power. i.e. 2000W motor, with a power factor of 0.8 needs 2400W to produce 2000w output. Some devices have 0.7 power factor, and sometimes even worse, like 0.6


    A 10W LED light could easily have a power factor of 0.8, thus using 12W to produce 10W.


    So even though it gives you a good idea of your consumption, it isn't 100% accurate. To be safe, add 30% - 40% of it's stated usage.
    Doesn't the meter read the real-time voltage and current and from that extrapolate the actual useage, or else what's the point?

  20. #37
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    Default Re: Home Solar System Help Please

    Quote Originally Posted by Skylark View Post
    Doesn't the meter read the real-time voltage and current and from that extrapolate the actual useage, or else what's the point?
    Yes, but input Ampere /= output Ampere. i.e. a 2000W pump might require 2400W to operate. OR, if it uses 2000W it might only deliver 1600W's worth power.
    You need a true RMS multi meter to see how much power is actually drawn.
    In simple terms, with older pumps and motors you are probably wasting a lot more energy than necessary.

  21. #38
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    Default Re: Home Solar System Help Please

    Quote Originally Posted by Skylark View Post
    Doesn't the meter read the real-time voltage and current and from that extrapolate the actual useage, or else what's the point?
    Look here, stats from my Axpert 5KVA inverter, the VA and Watt values differ quite a bit. The only pumps running now is the pool pump and two fridges - one of them is about 30 years old. The rest of the load is for laptops, chargers, TV, router,

    AC out voltage: 223.2
    AC out frequency: 50.0
    Load [%]: 12
    Load [W]: 515
    Load [VA]: 558

  22. #39
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    Default Re: Home Solar System Help Please

    Quote Originally Posted by SilverNodashi View Post
    Yes, but input Ampere /= output Ampere. i.e. a 2000W pump might require 2400W to operate. OR, if it uses 2000W it might only deliver 1600W's worth power.
    You need a true RMS multi meter to see how much power is actually drawn.
    In simple terms, with older pumps and motors you are probably wasting a lot more energy than necessary.
    To make it easy and simple for the user to install the Effergy meter, they only using a single clip-on meter for the amps.
    The volts you program on the meter, thus you only really measuring amps.
    For a normal house, this works pretty will to give you a good indication of what is happening.
    I have been using mine now for over 4 years and thus far it helped me reduce my electricity bill significantly.


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  23. #40
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    Default Re: Home Solar System Help Please

    Quote Originally Posted by Wetkit View Post
    To make it easy and simple for the user to install the Effergy meter, they only using a single clip-on meter for the amps.
    The volts you program on the meter, thus you only really measuring amps.
    For a normal house, this works pretty will to give you a good indication of what is happening.
    I have been using mine now for over 4 years and thus far it helped me reduce my electricity bill significantly.
    Agree - In a domestic home it is totally good enough, especially if most of the appliances are newish ( < 20 years old)

    In any event the intention is usually just for energy management and interest/awareness sake in a domestic system.

    But as pointed out, there is the potential for a few percent error, so don't start thinking about taking your electricity supplier to court..

    -----------

    What I like doing with these is leaving them somewhere visible for everybody to see with the 2 minute scrolling window graphic.

    When it goes above 5kW I throw a wobbly. Staff and family soon start noticing and run around switching off unnecessary stuff.
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD Yeasu Ft-897D
    2 V8's a V6 and an inline 4
    The nice thing about going the extra mile - the road is never congested.

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