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  1. #101
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    Default Re: The cost of eating out

    Damdan I am glad you started this thread because it (and the many responses) reaffirms my belief that one of the biggest challenges we face as an industry is that our products are becoming less and less affordable to our target market. And while there certainly is an element of greed among some operators, the majority of this is caused by the ever increasing cost of doing business. So we have to tighten our belts even more and get very very clever. With recession looming, we are in for a tough time.

    However, I do believe there will always be a healthy market for humble places offering tasty, good-value cuisine in a comfortable environment. I think some places needs to make sure they get those basics right first and then build upon that.
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  2. #102
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    Default Re: The cost of eating out

    6 pack Hansa - R50
    Robertsons Rose - R30
    Frozen veg (restaurants use it anyway) - R10 (we get three meals from a R30 packet)
    Meat - R100 buys a lot of meat for 2 people if you don't mind pork neck steaks or bulk lamb chops.
    Garlic bread - R20
    Wood - R40

    Spices, sauces etc. R30

    Total : R250

    Two spur burgers and two drinks come to that about. And then I have to add R50-R100 of fuel seeing that I live on a farm.

    Dishes doesn't bother as the dishwasher takes care of that.

    Yeah, it's a basic braai but with friends it's much more of an event at home than a noisy restaurant.

    Eating out is for birthdays only I'm afraid.

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  4. #103
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    Default Re: The cost of eating out

    Well we we go out it seldom comes to less than r600 for my wife and I.
    I am a teetotaler so my wife may have a glass of plonk. Apart from that it's mainly just a main course and a coffee.
    When we add the kids it starts to get dear.
    We do seem to eat out less now, and a braai with mates is always good fun and often cheaper.

  5. #104
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    Default Re: The cost of eating out

    Just remember, comparing prices of cooking stuff at home vs restaurant is pointless. If that is your staring off point, then stay at home and cook.
    As mentioned there is a place for good food, at reasonable prices, with a nice atmosphere.
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  6. #105
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    Default Re: The cost of eating out

    Great news is that its Monday and that means two Spur burgers with veg plus two large coke for just over R 100.
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  7. #106
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    Default Re: The cost of eating out

    Quote Originally Posted by Diversions View Post
    Great news is that its Monday and that means two Spur burgers with veg plus two large coke for just over R 100.
    Uhm...
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  8. #107
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    Default Re: The cost of eating out

    Having worked in the restaurant industry I understand Johan's frustrations. It is a really hard type of business to sustain.

    But the other side of the coin is that eating out is considered to be a luxury and in these economic times people cut back on luxuries. No doubt that there are restaurant operators out there doing good work, but eish, I also tend to stay at home and prepare food myself.

    My nemesis is calamari. Can't seem to get that right at home so I will mostly order it at a restaurant on the occasion that I eat out.

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  9. #108
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    Default Re: The cost of eating out

    Quote Originally Posted by Jouko View Post
    Farmers are world wide moaning. That is part of their job.

    I found out only recently that South Africa is net red meat importer. 30 years back sheep was cheaper than beef. Now more expensive. Both of these are wrong. We should be exporting and sheep should be cheaper than beef. Our farmers have a reason to moan.

    I do not know exact year but sometime early 80s or very late 70s laws were changed. All these changes were made to protect very few big companies. The supply chain took the money and the farmer lost. It was a real cartel. There were one or two companies who tried to break this cartel arrangement but they were killed. We had two shops near us belonging to one of these companies. Lasted very short time. It is still a cartel. Hopefully they break it one day.

    Rand is going bonkers lately but when we travel I compare prices. Our food prices used to be really cheap compared to Europe. Especially those in restaurants. Not anymore. It cannot be right that in a small shop in a middle of Rome fillet cost the same as in a standard shop in SA. Or that a dinner cost in SA more than in Greece.

    Looking local eating establishments one of the problems is that many of them are franchises. For a customer expensive and for the owner slavery.

    Best meals and cost effective are often in small privately owned places out of tourist areas. Works world wide. I want good food and that is not decoration food. If the place is clean and I can see what I eat I do not give a dam on deco. Last place I will go is a place with a "name". I could tell many stories about "name" place and place across the road or around the corner. One takes your money and the other gives you quality food.

    There have been comments about staff. Go to an overseas restaurant. Count the number of staff/table or seat. Time how long it takes to get a meal if you are in a hurry. Do to same in SA. I promise you will cry and you know why our prices are going up.
    I would moan as well if I get 80c for a cucumber straight off the field and the price is R8 in the shop
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  10. #109
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    Default Re: The cost of eating out

    We don't have much time in the evenings to cook so we eat out 3-4 times in an average week, sometimes more. There are good specials to be had if you shop around. We have a place to get something cheap every day of the week. A few examples: Beef Curry and Pap - R40-00 (very tasty), Ladies rump and very nice mixed veg - R55-00 (not the greatest steak but tasty and great value), Pizza Special buy one get one free - R60-00 to R90-00 for two (wood fired pizzas), Burger special - Buy one for R75-00 and get a second one free (proper foodie hipster type burgers). I can go on. This is all at pubs/restaurants in our middle class neighborhood. What I can't stand is paying 120-150 rand for a plate of average food. We still eat out at that range and more but it's at a select few places where we know you get what you pay for
    Last edited by Dwerg; 2017/04/25 at 08:36 AM.

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  12. #110
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    Default Re: The cost of eating out

    As a family, we don't eat out a lot, it being Northern Limpopo with its challenges and "limited abilities".
    However, there are one or two places we tend to end up at when we do get the urge to have a meal someone else has prepared. Now, I don't mind paying that extra as long as its not a complete ripoff as we don't do it every day. I understand the concept of them making money, people and overheads to pay, rent, insurance and all the other added operational costs which obviously inflates the cost of the meal by way much more it would if we made it ourselves at home.

    But what pisses me off is when I spend R400-450 per head on a meal .......and then having to fry an egg on a lousy piece of toast when I get home after the meal because I am still HUNGRY!! due to the mouse-sized crappy portions.
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  13. #111
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    Default Re: The cost of eating out

    Quote Originally Posted by Tweeling View Post
    I would moan as well if I get 80c for a cucumber straight off the field and the price is R8 in the shop
    In some countries farmers have done same as in Finland. Couple times farmers went to town and were selling their products on the prices they get. People including wealthy we patiently waiting for their turn to buy.

    JHB just found out that there is cartel at the fresh produce market. System is not what it should be. Apparently this has had impact on farmers and consumers.
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  14. #112
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    Default Re: The cost of eating out

    Quote Originally Posted by Jouko View Post
    In some countries farmers have done same as in Finland. Couple times farmers went to town and were selling their products on the prices they get. People including wealthy we patiently waiting for their turn to buy.

    JHB just found out that there is cartel at the fresh produce market. System is not what it should be. Apparently this has had impact on farmers and consumers.
    A couple of years ago a friend starters a organic farm near Riversdal in the Cape. One day he decided to start making yogurt. He coundnt get 1 single farmer to sell him milk. They are all to afraid of the dairy cartels...
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    Default Re: The cost of eating out

    Quote Originally Posted by RogueFrontier View Post
    A couple of years ago a friend starters a organic farm near Riversdal in the Cape. One day he decided to start making yogurt. He coundnt get 1 single farmer to sell him milk. They are all to afraid of the dairy cartels...
    So the cartel has expanded operations from white powder to white fluid?

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    Default Re: The cost of eating out

    Quote Originally Posted by JohanSlabbert View Post
    Damdan I am glad you started this thread because it (and the many responses) reaffirms my belief that one of the biggest challenges we face as an industry is that our products are becoming less and less affordable to our target market. And while there certainly is an element of greed among some operators, the majority of this is caused by the ever increasing cost of doing business. So we have to tighten our belts even more and get very very clever. With recession looming, we are in for a tough time.

    However, I do believe there will always be a healthy market for humble places offering tasty, good-value cuisine in a comfortable environment. I think some places needs to make sure they get those basics right first and then build upon that.

    Hmm, target market.

    What is the size of target market in SA? 3-4%

    Johan - How many of YOUR staff gets to go eat out with the family more than once a month? (Johan, you are just an easy victim for that question, but I think that brings the point home)

    In european, etc countries, I'm sure it is much higher percentage. So, yes, good on you for actually surviving. As mentioned in a previous thread, there are some expensive restaurants around where you can hardly ever get a seat. Good on them for doing so well with such a minute customer base in SA. (I mean, what is your R300+ per head customer base? 0.1% of population?)

    To start discussing why so few folks can eat out in SA will just get political and upset Dirk...
    Last edited by RogueFrontier; 2017/04/28 at 12:06 PM.
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  17. #115
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    Default Re: The cost of eating out

    Quote Originally Posted by RogueFrontier View Post
    Hmm, target market.

    What is the size of target market in SA? 3-4%

    Johan - How many of YOUR staff gets to go eat out with the family more than once a month? (Johan, you are just an easy victim for that question, but I think that brings the point home)

    In european, etc countries, I'm sure it is much higher percentage. So, yes, good on you for actually surviving. As mentioned in a previous thread, there are some expensive restaurants around where you can hardly ever get a seat. Good on them for doing so well with such a minute customer base in SA. (I mean, what is your R300+ per head customer base? 0.1% of population?)

    To start discussing why so few folks can eat out in SA will just get political and upset Dirk...
    You'd be surprised how often my staff eats out. Sure not everyone gets to go once a month but they all treat themselves every now and then. It's something they aspire to and save up for. I see no problem with that.

    Eating out remains a treat though, a luxury by definition, so obviously it's not something that's attainable to everyone. This is true for every country in the world.

    As for our "target" market, perhaps the wrong word. We don't target anyone specifically (okay I admit, men and women aged 18 - 65 is what my Facebook ads are set to "target"), rather we try to appeal to as many as possible by offering good food at good value served in a relaxing homely environment.

    If you want to see targeting, go look how the big franchises advertise...

    And next time you wonder why your Big Name franchise pizza costs R100 but tastes like it was made using R15 worth of horrible ingredients, realise that someone has to pay for those prime time TV ads, and that's you.

    (you are just an easy victim for that question, but I think that brings the point home)

    Johan Slabbert

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  18. #116
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    Default Re: The cost of eating out

    Johan, you are on the cusp of a strip of one of thee most expense property in Africa. This week again a house in one of your sidestreets just sold for R145MILLION. Here you are concerned about how much free bread and water you can give away before your Jeep gets repo'd. That is for sure a sign of a far larger problem in our economy.

    Thank God that if Swambo or I get home late, we do not have to check the savings before going for a pizza of burger. I think many on this forum is lucky enough to be in a similar position.

    Lets look at the masses. I have to honestly say, the only food chain I have ever seen targeting the proper SA masses is Hungry Lion. Spur doesnt even have a restaurant in places like Khyalitsha or Nyanga or Du Noon. Right there is 3-odd million customers in high density housing wanting dinner every night and nobody are targeting them. I would guess they same story goes all over SA.

    After 2 decades of AA & BEE, you would think that the masses would not have to open a savings plan to go have a burger... This is what I mean that restaurants should be pulling vastly larger sections of the populous than they are actually doing. Just to make things worse, is that the have's are moving to the have not's, instead of the other way round.

    This is depressing, even before the recession comes.

    I will continue support restaurants where I feel I get value-for-money and they get to keep having tables to turn and make a living.
    Value for money can be a R200 pizza from Ricky across the road from you. You get something for your money. You get a big, fresh topping pizza that will beat many of the hungry boertjies here. Damn, I miss them where we stay now, but driving R100 diesel out to go fetch a pizza is also out.
    (PS, Johan - I do not think I've been to eat in Sea Point since I have met you on the forum, so please do not take my support of Ricky in the past as a personal affront.)
    Last edited by RogueFrontier; 2017/04/28 at 06:43 PM.
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  19. #117
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    Default Re: The cost of eating out

    Just some perspective from UAE
    Just now returned from local steakhouse, chain type in the line of Spur.
    (No comparison with present day steak qualty however, maybe from way back)

    8 oz fillet with 2 sides about R400.

    We do not do this regularly
    Last edited by onwards; 2017/04/28 at 06:53 PM.

  20. #118
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    Default Re: The cost of eating out

    Quote Originally Posted by RogueFrontier View Post
    Johan, you are on the cusp of a strip of one of thee most expense property in Africa. This week again a house in one of your sidestreets just sold for R145MILLION. Here you are concerned about how much free bread and water you can give away before your Jeep gets repo'd. That is for sure a sign of a far larger problem in our economy.

    Thank God that if Swambo or I get home late, we do not have to check the savings before going for a pizza of burger. I think many on this forum is lucky enough to be in a similar position.

    Lets look at the masses. I have to honestly say, the only food chain I have ever seen targeting the proper SA masses is Hungry Lion. Spur doesnt even have a restaurant in places like Khyalitsha or Nyanga or Du Noon. Right there is 3-odd million customers in high density housing wanting dinner every night and nobody are targeting them. I would guess they same story goes all over SA.

    After 2 decades of AA & BEE, you would think that the masses would not have to open a savings plan to go have a burger... This is what I mean that restaurants should be pulling vastly larger sections of the populous than they are actually doing. Just to make things worse, is that the have's are moving to the have not's, instead of the other way round.

    This is depressing, even before the recession comes.

    I will continue support restaurants where I feel I get value-for-money and they get to keep having tables to turn and make a living.
    Value for money can be a R200 pizza from Ricky across the road from you. You get something for your money. You get a big, fresh topping pizza that will beat many of the hungry boertjies here. Damn, I miss them where we stay now, but driving R100 diesel out to go fetch a pizza is also out.
    (PS, Johan - I do not think I've been to eat in Sea Point since I have met you on the forum, so please do not take my support of Ricky in the past as a personal affront.)
    Who's Ricky? I'm on good personal terms with all the nearby restaurants, except Call a Pizza about 1km down the road that for some reason suspects us of reporting them for selling liquor UTC without a liquor license. (It wasn't us I have zero motive and even less time for nonsense like that)

    If your point is that about 90% (just a guess) of the population cannot afford to eat out, I concur.

    I'm sure 99% can also not afford a 4x4.

    I don't really get your point though?
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  21. #119
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    Default Re: The cost of eating out

    Quote Originally Posted by JohanSlabbert View Post
    Who's Ricky? I'm on good personal terms with all the nearby restaurants, except Call a Pizza about 1km down the road that for some reason suspects us of reporting them for selling liquor UTC without a liquor license. (It wasn't us I have zero motive and even less time for nonsense like that)

    If your point is that about 90% (just a guess) of the population cannot afford to eat out, I concur.

    I'm sure 99% can also not afford a 4x4.

    I don't really get your point though?
    Yes, Call-a-pizza.

    The point I'm trying to make is that it should much more affordable to many more ppl.

    Restaurant should have a much higher turn-around and people should not need savings to go eat out.

    I feel the relationship between food prices (I mean raw foods) and income is out of whack.

    It comes down to the question I asked. How big a part of the population do you realistically see coming thru your doors?
    Last edited by RogueFrontier; 2017/04/28 at 07:19 PM.
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  22. #120
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    Default Re: The cost of eating out

    Quote Originally Posted by RogueFrontier View Post
    Yes, Call-a-pizza.

    The point I'm trying to make is that it should much more affordable to many more ppl.

    Restaurant should have a much higher turn-around and people should not need savings to go eat out.

    I feel the relationship between food prices (I mean raw foods) and income is out of whack.

    It comes down to the question I asked. How big a part of the population do you realistically see coming thru your doors?
    Honestly I didn't even know about our apparent issue until over the past new years when we ran out of takeaway pizza boxes while all suppliers were closed and Call a Pizza refused to help us.
    For the record we got a R2500 fine and a warning from the liquor police last Friday night when a customer stepped outside to have his beer and cigarette on the pavement. Something we have previously turned a blind eye to in the interests of keeping customers happy. And I don't go suspecting others for reporting us, I know we were "soft flaunting" the law and yeah we got caught.

    As for your affordability point, yes I totally agree, I wish it was a lot more affordable. But the cost of doing business and the cost of ingredients coupled with the massive competition we get from the franchises means the margins are so slim that even when we are full every night we hardly break even.
    And I'm not just speaking about my own place, I know dozens of people in the same boat as me. We are actually the lucky ones, many many others does not make it...
    Johan Slabbert

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