Engine does not start after putting the gearbox back




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  1. #1
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    Default Engine does not start after putting the gearbox back

    Hello Everybody,

    I would like to consult a problem I am having with my Land ROver Series III. Some time ago, we decided to take out the gearbox to stop a leak in the transfer case. Everything else (engine, gearbox, etc.) was working pretty well otherwise. it turned out it was a worn out bearing that was causing the wiggle and, hence, the leak.

    After replacing the bearing, the gearbox was sealed back and put back into the car. At that point, we also put back our new diesel tank. However, when everything was back in its place, the car would not start: the engine did not start; all what we would get is some "click-click".

    At first we thought our battery was flat. However, we then tried with a couple other batteries with no improvement. I nned to say none of the batteries we used are very reliable; not because all of them are that old, but each of them has been killed a few times. All the batteries had just been charged by the same fancy rejuvenizer smart charger.

    The mechanic who had helped replacing the bearing in the transfer case, first pointed towards the starter. However, the next day, he corrected his diagnosis to say there had probably been an error mounting the gearbox back onto the engine. It could have been the bolts on the bell housing had been tighten up too much. It is also possible, there is something wrong in the gearbox and it needs to come out again. A couple of other mechanics have also told me they would need to take out the gearbox.

    However, I have also checked with some other Land Rover professionals and they have told me there is only one way to mount the gearbox on the engine: there is not such a thing like tightening up some bolts on the gearbox too much. Either the gearbox gets in right or totally wrong. These other professionals point out we never bled the fuel line after we put in the new diesel tank. They also suggest some strong, reliable batteries should be used to achieve the compression required to start such a big engine: it may be a good idea to try to start the engine while it is being towed. According to these other professionals, if the engine still does not start, we should look at the starter; but they discard the gearbox as the source of the problem.

    I was wondering what is the input of the people here in the forum. I would very much appreciate any feedback.

    Thank you,

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Engine does not start after putting the gearbox back

    The click-click sounds like a duff battery or solenoid; it may also be the starter brushes; though after standing awhile most likely the battery / solenoid.

    You have doubts about the gearbox/clutch mounting and assembly. See if the engine turns over by hand. If it can be turned the clutch/gearbox is not binding. I wouldn't swing the engine other than by hand until this doubt is cleared.

    Unless you from certain suburbs in Cape Town (which shall remain unnamed) please don't tow the vehicle up and down the road trying to start it - or pulling the gearbox "loose".

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  4. #3
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    Default Re: Engine does not start after putting the gearbox back

    First to do...put in neutral,maybe remove plugs,disconect coils,then try to turn engine by hand, as recommended by Russellf !-if it turns without binding, try turning it with the starter while plugs still out...hmmmm ,its a petrol engine that you have?....

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    Default Re: Engine does not start after putting the gearbox back

    Maybe check all the earth connections?

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    Default Re: Engine does not start after putting the gearbox back

    Also check that the earth cable is fitted correctly, can be as simple as that.Turning the motor by hand is a good suggestion, not a lot can go wrong when fitting a gearbox unless it is a modification.Did u remove the fly wheel?Does the clutch and fly wheel move freely if you use a screw driver to just move it to make sure it is free?
    Sean Riley http://www.thegearboxcompany.co.za Disco 3 Tdv6 se.2008

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    Default Re: Engine does not start after putting the gearbox back

    Put on proper jumper cables. Make sure the earth is on the engine and not on the battery. And double check the wiring at the starter
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    Default Re: Engine does not start after putting the gearbox back

    After standing a while ... few weeks ... my 75 S3 petrol also only starts on 4th or 5th
    turn of the key
    ... also initially gives starter-clicks and clucks
    ... but then always starts easily with first few turns of the engine.

    Ive always assumed :

    1. Bit of a blind-spot on resting position of starter ... Or solenoid starting to fail ...
    ... but Ive never needed to rock the car etc to turn things slightly as in other such cases...

    2. Mechanical and not electric fuel pump so takes a bit of 'prime'
    ... to pressure-up fuel line feed

    3. ... always hope securing bolts for starter arent stripped , misaligning starter.

    Ive never taken out the long resident starter to clean it up / check-up ...
    ... heard it can be tricky re-aligning it into ring-gear / flange
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    Default Re: Engine does not start after putting the gearbox back

    Starter not aligned/over or under tightened/missing spacer. Put in Neutral and push.If the car does not move then starter is stuck on flywheel.Put in gear and rock forward to release starter.If the car has been standing for long the clutch can be stuck to the pressure plate but it won't cause it not to start,the car will not move
    Last edited by roynaidoo; 2017/01/12 at 07:44 AM.

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    Default Re: Engine does not start after putting the gearbox back

    Hi guys, I read the intro differently.

    Assuming the car was running before only the gearbox and tank were removed. Everything else (engine, gearbox, etc.) was working pretty well otherwise.
    The gearbox was put back. How difficult is that, when it was a LR mechanic? The mechanic who had helped replacing the bearing in the transfer case,
    The tank was empty when put back. Fuel put in, but not bled. we also put back our new diesel tank. These other professionals point out we never bled the fuel line after we put in the new diesel tank.
    The batteries had died a few times, so they could not be really at full power when used, even though a fancy charger was used. I nned to say none of the batteries we used are very reliable; not because all of them are that old, but each of them has been killed a few times.

    To me, and I'm no professional but I would.......
    Check all the earth straps.
    Bleed the system
    Get a proper fully charged battery
    And then swing the motor via the starter

    I can only imagine the compression on that motor. Turning it by hand, almost impossible with everything intact. Imagine if it's a Santana model

    If the starter does not swing it fast enough, tow it, maybe try to swing in 4th gear.

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    Default Re: Engine does not start after putting the gearbox back

    push start the thing

    if it starts and runs and drives, you've effectively eliminated everything except the battery and the starter motor
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    Default Re: Engine does not start after putting the gearbox back

    However, I have also checked with some other Land Rover professionals and they have told me there is only one way to mount the gearbox on the engine: there is not such a thing like tightening up some bolts on the gearbox too much. Either the gearbox gets in right or totally wrong. These other professionals point out we never bled the fuel line after we put in the new diesel tank. They also suggest some strong, reliable batteries should be used to achieve the compression required to start such a big engine: it may be a good idea to try to start the engine while it is being towed. According to these other professionals, if the engine still does not start, we should look at the starter; but they discard the gearbox as the source of the problem.



    The above makes sense. DO IT!!
    OR take it to a proper LAND ROVER SPECIALIST!

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    Default Re: Engine does not start after putting the gearbox back

    Any motor can be turned by hand. Even my on non-turbo diesel with 28:1 compression turns by hand.

    Pushing the whole vehicle back and forth in gear will also turn the motor.

    If the starter was fitted incorrectly, it is quick enough to remove. I would not try turning the motor to much using the starter. Either a flat battery or a siezed component, results in the starter not turning and you are burning one winding the whole time. This will result in a damaged armature.

    Some gearboxes can engage TWO gears at once. That results in a locked gearbox that doesnt turn. If the clutch is operating correctly, the engine will turn when you depress the clutch.

    Has the vehicle stood that long that the cylinders could have rusted?
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    Default Re: Engine does not start after putting the gearbox back

    Turning the engine by hand is good advice. Then try using good jumper cables from a strong battery and if you still just get "clicks" you most likely have a starter motor problem. Checking your earths are clean and tight is also a good idea, as said in an earlier post.

    If the engine turns freely by hand you will have to bleed the fuel system before trying to actually start it. What I have done in the past is to bleed the air out by manually operating the lift pump until there is no air at the inlet to the injector pump. Then I have towed the vehicle in 2nd or 3rd High until it starts, usually after a 100 meters or so - maybe even further, but not kilometres! I have done this with both the 3.8 liter ADE engine and the Rover 2.5 diesel. You don't need to tow at speed.

    Don't know why RussellF is against towing? It works!
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    Default Re: Engine does not start after putting the gearbox back

    Oh.... (Hanging head in shame ,plus Charlie Brown expression)....so its a diesel then.....

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    Default Re: Engine does not start after putting the gearbox back

    Don't know why RussellF is against towing? It works!

    Didn't say it doesn't work. it's the guy sitting on the engine fiddling with stuff and the kids running alongside that strikes me as too much of a spectacle .... but each to his own. An engine doesn't need much to start, swinging over and over or towing doesn't make it want to start.

    The OP has doubts whether the gearbox/clutch/etc is free turning. Going so far as to enquire several times whether it is possible to fit the gearbox incorrectly. Surely this is not an instance where you'd swing the engine with a several kW starter, tow or push start.

    Short of removing and refitting the gearbox the only way to remove that doubt is to turn the engine/gearbox, preferably by hand so as to avoid any damage if it is indeed jammed.

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    Default Re: Engine does not start after putting the gearbox back

    Sadly Monito is not Monitoring.............
    There is no task too simple for some people to complicate !



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    Default Re: Engine does not start after putting the gearbox back

    Quote Originally Posted by duncang View Post
    Sadly Monito is not Monitoring.............
    Thank you very much to everybody for their contributions. I am certainly reading all posts with a lot of attention. I am trying to extract my own conclusions. What confuses me is that we tried with 4-5 batteries and, even when none of them were quite reliable, we could not get more than clicking noises: it is hard to imagine all batteries were plain flat (unless that fancy smart charger had just killed all of them, which is also hard to imagine). On the other hand, I still cannot see the reason how the starter could be now the source of the problem, when it was working fine before we took out the gearbox.

    I understand the air in the fuel should make it harder to get the engine started, but then, again, should I still expect something more than clicking noises?

    Trying to turn the engine by hand certainly sounds like a good, safe idea to me in order the clear out the question the gearbox/clutch may be jammed. mine, is certainly a big engine. It is a Perkins diesel, although I cannot say right now from top of my head the exact model (Perkins 4203 perhaps?). So, I do not know how feasible it will really be to turn that beast by hand, but certainly will try. Unfortunately, I do not have the car here in fron of me to do it right now. I will let you know when I try.

    Thank you all for your insight!

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    Default Re: Engine does not start after putting the gearbox back

    Quote Originally Posted by monito View Post
    Thank you very much to everybody for their contributions. I am certainly reading all posts with a lot of attention. I am trying to extract my own conclusions. What confuses me is that we tried with 4-5 batteries and, even when none of them were quite reliable, we could not get more than clicking noises: it is hard to imagine all batteries were plain flat (unless that fancy smart charger had just killed all of them, which is also hard to imagine). On the other hand, I still cannot see the reason how the starter could be now the source of the problem, when it was working fine before we took out the gearbox.

    I understand the air in the fuel should make it harder to get the engine started, but then, again, should I still expect something more than clicking noises?

    Trying to turn the engine by hand certainly sounds like a good, safe idea to me in order the clear out the question the gearbox/clutch may be jammed. mine, is certainly a big engine. It is a Perkins diesel, although I cannot say right now from top of my head the exact model (Perkins 4203 perhaps?). So, I do not know how feasible it will really be to turn that beast by hand, but certainly will try. Unfortunately, I do not have the car here in fron of me to do it right now. I will let you know when I try.

    Thank you all for your insight!
    Is yours a turbo or non turbo? You would normally match this motor with an overdrive because straight up you will battle to get to 100km ph. This is a 67kw Perkins motor( if NT ) used mainly in massey ferguson and plant like Hyster , very slow but as strong as an ox. Landrover used them and I know Ford also used it in the F100 at some stage. Later on they also came with turbo and then intercooler.

    Can you give more detail on what exactly was stripped, did you remove the flywheel for some or other reason? You got some good advice already; try and turn the motor over by hand; remove starter motor and try turning again, if not turning take out the box and start over. Perhaps take off the selector top and try turning again. Don't let it beat you

    Edit: Not sure if Ford actually used the Perkins 4.203
    Last edited by KoosDup; 2017/01/12 at 05:39 PM.

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    Default Re: Engine does not start after putting the gearbox back

    This sounds exactly like the Spanish dude and his Santana that was at my shop Dec 2015......Exactly the same story, word for word......The only difference is that his wife (at the time) did all the work on the Landy...

    What a coincidence....

    Only thing different with my story is that the dude contacted me +/- 22nd December and asked for help......I wasted 4 hours and drove 88km's until we (I say we but he's half blind) eventually phoned some dude on a wine farm who gave me directions....

    Spanish dude asked how much to fix.....how long is a piece of string? I told him that I would have to strip out the seat box, loosen the g-box and move it away from the motor. I gave him an estimate of R6k. He then asked if he can do the stripping in my shop to cut costs......shyte, this dude is seriously blind, I remember that he was falling over stuff in the shop in December.
    Dropped him off at the house and thats the last I heard of him......hell, he doesn't even have the decency to answer phone calls.

    I wouldn't be surprised if this turns out to be very the same Santana....but hey, thats just me.

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    Default Re: Engine does not start after putting the gearbox back

    Shyte, just re-read the OP.

    Same old batteries and fancy gizmo charger
    Same bearing and TC leak
    Same re-sealed diesel tank
    Ex-wife fitted the bearing and sealed the box....dunno who this "mechanic" you speak of is.....

    So called mechanic (that being me, its my story remember) didn't say anything about the starter motor, and change his diagnosis the next day.
    Said mechanic put a powerbar on the crank pulley and couldn't budge the engine.
    Said mechanic (who wasn't involved in removing said g-box) then stated that there could be an issue related to the home-made adapter plate and the extra bolts that were fitted to the empty mounting holes, and/or spacers that could or could have not been fitted and omitted during the re-installation of said g-box by said ex-wife.

    As for the "professionals".....Ja, spoke to David at Roverland the other day and he said that he had just seen my blind friend (my words, not his. Don't miss quote me here)....I agree with bleeding the system (if the Landy's been standing for a year on a wine farm), but I'm sorry.....if the engines locked up since the gbox was fitted, no amount of new batteries, new starters or towing is gonna make it start.

    Sorry boet, this stories too similar to my story and I'm gonna call bullshyte on this.....

    Tell Javier that his "Carnet du Passage" expired on the 29th December and he still owes me R1708.00 for the privalage of my company on the 22nd.
    Last edited by GaryFrank; 2017/01/14 at 03:23 AM.

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