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  1. #21
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    Default Alternative ATF Fluid cracked!

    OK, I'll admit it ..... I've been a little obsessed with this subject over the past few weeks.
    I've read just about everything I could find. Cross-referenced hundreds of oils, transmissions, vehicle manufactures, company publications, etc. They really hide this stuff well!
    It's interesting how the topic starts to narrow down and ultimately point to the answers, the more you study it.

    One thing that became glaringly obvious: Vehicle and oil manufacturers are very tightly aligned to their nationality/regions. You won't find Peugeot recommending Texaco or Mobil; SEAT recommend Repsol, Alfa Romeo recommend Eni, Volkswagen recommend Fuchs, Castrol is a subsidiary of BP; and so on... Lubricant sales are huge business, so why not corner a piece of the pie hey? So, regardless of what the manufactures say, it would seem that there's always an alternative lubricant out there.

    Anyway, so it turns out...

    1.
    ZF Lifegaurd 6 is now the official recommended ATF for the ZF 6HP26 gearbox.
    But, the oil that constitutes ZF Lifeguard 6, is actually supplied by Fuchs, and is in fact, the Fuchs Titan ATF 4134, re-branded to ZF as the ZF Lifeguard 6.
    Remember, both companies are German, and ZF does not manufacture oil.

    2.
    The recommended Shell ATF M1375.4, is the exact same oil as the ZF Lifeguard 6. ZF also stipulate this ATF oil. And yep, Shell ATF M1375.4 is an older re-branded Fuchs ATF 4134 oil.

    3.
    Fuchs only recommend the Titan ATF 4134 and nothing else.
    Seems the answer was staring us in the face all along.

    Alternatives:

    1. Fuchs Titan ATF 4134 {Actually not an alternative, but rather, the original OEM oil}
    2. Liqui Moly Top Tec ATF 1800 (ZF Lifeguard 6) {Also a Fuchs re-brand, per one source}
    3. Fuchs Titan ATF 6000 SL Dexron VI {A more modern development of the oil}
    4. Caltex Havoline Synthetic ATF Multi-Vehicle Dexron VI
    5. Ravenol ATF 6HP Fluid

    Also check out: http://www.furitech.com.au/index.php...-introduction/

    Aside: I think I may have cracked the Transfer Case alternative, and half-and-half on the rear diff. alternative. More research needed.
    Last edited by Kootsoo; 2014/10/14 at 09:00 AM.

  2. #22
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    Default

    Thanks Kootsoo. It makes for interesting reading.

    Last time round I went for the Ravenhol, but all the others are also freely available.

    Good luck with the search for the liquid gold

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    Wynand
    2005 Discovery 3 HSE v8
    2002 Discovery II XS v8 (sold)
    1974 Chev K 25 (julle dink 'n v8 is dors)
    Land Rover - making mechanics from motorists since 1947 and electronic engineers since 1989!

  3. #23
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    Default

    Kootsoo. I am very interested in your post saying that Lifeguard 6 is actually re-branded Fuchs Titan ATF 4134. I actively follow various overseas forums where the vehicles use the ZF 6HP26 gearbox - namely Range Rover L322, Jaguar and BMW - and there is always a lot of discussion on equivalent oils.

    Are you able to post some links to the various publications you studied when you were researching this. As you know there are a lot of warnings by vehicle manufacturers about using non recommended oils and many people are simply too nervous of using other oils without some sort of evidence to support their use.

    I must add that I am not doubting what you say at all and will personally be trying this oil. But others may not be too keen to stray from the straight and narrow and need to see the proof in black and white.

    Thanks for taking the time to research and share your findings. Life will be much easier knowing that there are alternatives out there.
    P38 4.6 HSE 2002
    L322 TDV8 2010
    L320 TDV8 2007
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  4. #24
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kootsoo View Post
    Aside: I think I may have cracked the Transfer Case alternative, and half-and-half on the rear diff. alternative. More research needed.
    Please let us know if you come across any info on an equivalent for Castrol BOT26 oil used in the NV225 transfer gearbox fitted to early Range Rover L322's that use the BMW M62 motor and 5HP24 gearbox.
    P38 4.6 HSE 2002
    L322 TDV8 2010
    L320 TDV8 2007
    Disco 4 V8 SE 2010
    Disco 4 TDV6 SE 2010
    Freelander 2 TD4 SE 2007
    CAV GT40

  5. #25
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    Default Re: What oils to use

    Hi everyone
    Last edited by JayKay696; 2017/01/11 at 06:16 PM.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: What oils to use

    As it goes with things like this, you only tend to get involved once the subject becomes relevant in your life.
    So now I am in need of oil for my Disco 3 transmission and I am on the hunt for a decent alternative to LR supplied Lifeguard 6 which they now selling for R 594/litre. R 594/litre, are you kidding me!!!

    My Disco 3 transmission is asking for a double flush due to age, shuddering and the occasional slip.
    So 10 litres of oil required. LR want R5940-00 for the 10 litres.
    There is no ways in hell I am paying R 5940 for 10 litres of oil.


    So back to the debate on alternatives and my comment on previous post by Kootsoo.
    1. Fuchs Titan 4134 or 6000sl ATF for that matter is not re-branded lifeguard 6.
    Why i say this: 1.1 Lifeguard 6 is a golden brown color oil, Fuchs is normal red color ATF.
    1.2 The packaging is wrong (see further comment on this at point 3 )
    2. Shell M1375.4 is not an actual commercially available oil (not that I can find anyway).
    Shell do on the other hand manufacture Shell Spirax S6 ATF (not available in South Africa AFAIK)
    NO, not Shell Spirax S6 ZM or S6 A295, I mean just S6 ATF (see attached pic for label detail)
    3. So what's interesting to me is:
    3.1 Shell Spirax S6 ATF (as per pic) is also the golden brown oil.
    3.2.Shell Spirax S6 ATF and Lifeguard 6 have the exact same bottle.
    3.3.Fuchs use different bottle with red oil content.
    3.4.If the oil color is different, it means the chemical content is different.
    3.5.Fuchs will not re-tool there plastic injection moulding plant, steal the Shell bottle template and supply Fuchs oil in a Shell bottle to ZF. It doesn't make sense and also probably would contravene copyrights on industrial design of packaging.

    4. My conclusion is that ZF lifeguard 6 is re-branded Shell Spirax S6 ATF (as per pic) which probably has its origins as there M1375.4 derivative.

    5. The problem is that this specific Shell S6 is not available in South Africa.

    6. I have spent some time researching and decided on the alternative to use. There are a couple of equal alternatives abroad, e.g. Valvoline Import MV ATF, also LR certified (see www.valvoline.com) but also only available in USA.
    South African Valvoline ATF not the same content.
    Without going into all the detail, I have decided to go with Ravenol 6HP which is certified for ZF 6 speed auto boxes and Land Rover, also german made. also golden brown color and also used by quite a few well known Indys. It is freely available at a third of the price of lifeguard and has the same spec if not better spec.

    My two cents worth, cheers

  7. #27
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    Default Re: What oils to use

    Sorry, cannot seem to upload the picture of the Shell ATF.
    Please check it out at: https://myalbum.com/album/L5CqcHDczi5f

  8. #28
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    Default Re: What oils to use

    Hey,
    You might want to read ZF Automatic Transmission - Oil Change Special

    https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url...2&share_type=t
    And consider a trip toward the mountain that most sly looks like a table
    2009 Range Rover Sport 4.4 V8 HSE (his)
    Izmir Blue

    2012 Audi S3 (hers)
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  9. #29
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    Default Re: What oils to use

    Liqui Moly as well as Fuchs and others all have oil selectors where you enter your vehicle details as you'll receive correct specifications.
    Rather than opinions.

    From there you can upgrade to better but at least you comply at base with requirements.

    I have 3 X 5 series BMW'S, Crazy I know, an old W124 in perfect condition, and then V 8 Rangie Sport and the 4.8 Petrol Patrol.

    All are driven briskly but never around town, Id be forced to park like an idiot, but instead are alternated on a long distance trip, generally around 600 km I do twice a week. I have a small LDV for running around.

    On the Turbo Diesels I use Fuchs Titan GT1 sae 5w30 altough I would prefer a w40.
    Its a C3 oil but dont recall if its suitable for DPF. The website will inform.

    For the Petrols, all are V8 except the Patrol I use Liqui Moly 5W40 Leightlauf High-Tech.
    I use this because its not fully synthetic which I have moved away from.
    Ive glazed motors and burnt gearboxes on the very best synthetic oils.

    Change interval always annual as I dont do 10 000 on any particular vehicle per year.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: What oils to use

    Sorry

    It seems I responded too quickly and only read the first post and saw V6.
    By the time I started writing I forgot it was transmission and diff oils.

    My 2c worth is that every gearbox outfit has to settle on a broad spectrum oil that will adequately cover most of the vehicles they do.
    It wouldn't make economic sense carrying a a whole spectrum of specifications.

    Fuchs is an OE oil supplier on many modern automatic transmissions as far as I am aware.
    Top quality products but expensive.

    In my opinion the safest bet with high mileage auto transmissions is replace with the same brand same specification, but I dont have a technical reference to validate my opinion.
    The price of transmission fluid is however negligible to rebuilding your transmission.
    On a ZF box I would go to ZF directly without doubt. Any saving elsewhere will be long forgotten with a burnt transmission.

    You don't want to go there

    A while ago I was running around with three different warranties from three different transmission rebuilders.
    There are only so many times you can take it back.

    ZF sold all their equipment and know-how on older GM boxes to Budler Motor-Sport.

  11. #31
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    Default Re: What oils to use

    I have Fuchs in my box
    Stated with 4134 105 000 km ago , and currently on 6600 SL

    This oil is used in the same boxes in Germany nog al! and USA

    This ZF 6HP26 gearbox, is a normal auto box, nothing special about it , in actual fact it has a inferior torque converter for a 4x4.

    Once again we make a big hash out of our D3/4 , they are normal vehicles requiring oil that is out there on the shelf.
    Koos Best
    Land Rover Discovery3 TDV6 S.
    VW T5 D/cab 4 Motion with slide on camper

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