Electrickery for camping - Page 6




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  1. #101
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    Thanks a lot for this Chris.

    My R0.02 is to make your system as simple as possible and as complex as you need. When I installed my dual battery system - all based on a 2nd battery, a dual sense VSR (If I knew now what I know then, it would have been a single sense one), a few fuses and minimum cabling - with the idea that this was very basic, but could be adapted/upgraded if and when needed and that the lessons learned on its first few trips would allow me to customise it. 8 years later, I have a battery monitor which I still need to install and the system is unchanged.

    The other possible mods are a permanently installed inverter and one or two more connections in the space taken up by one of the jump seats in the back of the Disco but, to be honest, I rarely think about this when I'm in the bush. As long as I can keep meat fresh and beer cold there's not a lot else needed.
    '97 Disco Tdi

  2. #102
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    There is an awful lot of theory being thrown around here making assumptions about panels/battery capacity/power consumption etc. I have 2x75A/h batteries with 2x85W panels working via a Victron 75/15 MPPT charger. I was running an 80 litre NL, 40 litre NL and lighting on this setup during April in the Kgalagadi (swartpan). Daytime temps were mid to high 30's and 40 on one day. The solar panels charged my batteries by midday and were on float all afternoon each day for more than a week. The theories I have seen on this thread imply that my setup should not work....

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  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwm View Post
    There is an awful lot of theory being thrown around here making assumptions about panels/battery capacity/power consumption etc. I have 2x75A/h batteries with 2x85W panels working via a Victron 75/15 MPPT charger. I was running an 80 litre NL, 40 litre NL and lighting on this setup during April in the Kgalagadi (swartpan). Daytime temps were mid to high 30's and 40 on one day. The solar panels charged my batteries by midday and were on float all afternoon each day for more than a week. The theories I have seen on this thread imply that my setup should not work....

    Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk
    Thank you for confirming the success rate of the "2x80W" systems.

  4. #104
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    Same with vehicle's fuel consumption, nobody gets the same, and nobody agrees.

    From the attached link can a 60l engel fridge run any thing from 16% up to 100% of the time consuming 3.5 Amp, thus anything from 22Ah to 84Ah, or from about 60 to 238 Watt panels, depending you situation or requirements.

    Ok, it's unlikely that it will run 24 hours continues, or only 16% of the time. So somewhere in between might suit you.

    https://www.engel-usa.com/images/sto...0f%20curve.pdf

    or

    http://www.nationalluna.com/download.htm
    Last edited by JLK; 2014/06/12 at 11:27 AM.
    Johan Kriel

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  5. #105
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    Chris (or anybody else)

    Below is my planned wiring for the Prado (as I had it up to the time you posted this thread).
    According to the tread it seems I might have overengineered the cabling between the batteries and Ctek and to the rear/trailer battery.

    One thing I do plan to change is that the spots and the horn will connect to the main battery not the 2nd.

    What would the guys with the white coats feeling be about my cable and fuse sizes?
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Stander View Post
    Chris (or anybody else)

    Below is my planned wiring for the Prado (as I had it up to the time you posted this thread).
    According to the tread it seems I might have overengineered the cabling between the batteries and Ctek and to the rear/trailer battery.

    One thing I do plan to change is that the spots and the horn will connect to the main battery not the 2nd.

    What would the guys with the white coats feeling be about my cable and fuse sizes?
    Why are you connecting all your vehicle driving loads (Spots, 2Way) on the 2nd battery and not the mains?

    Just wondering

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  7. #107
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    Agree with Sandboarder - all driving loads go to the main battery. I would also suggest you make the fuse to the bottom service battery 100A. 40A is a tad low when you engage the winch.
    Eggie.

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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Stander View Post
    Chris (or anybody else)

    Below is my planned wiring for the Prado (as I had it up to the time you posted this thread).
    According to the tread it seems I might have overengineered the cabling between the batteries and Ctek and to the rear/trailer battery.

    One thing I do plan to change is that the spots and the horn will connect to the main battery not the 2nd.

    What would the guys with the white coats feeling be about my cable and fuse sizes?
    Adam as I said, this is a journey ... and we (hopefully) learn as we go along. Personally I did the solenoid thing before going the Ctek route, thus I also have the thick cables to the back - but next time I wont do it like that. with that in mind, my feedback is aimed at how to improve the next installation


    In a couple of places you used 4mm, where a 1,5 or 2,5mm would have done the job. But it is simply easier and more practical to keep to a standard size, and a 4mm wire really fits the bill for most of what we do. the only place I would have gone for a thinner wire is the LED's - just easier to "run" the wire to where you need it, and the switches for these LED's cant take thick wires either.


    actually a very nice setup you have there !

  9. #109
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    The idea of the driving loads on the main battery makes sense, but I'm worried about the items that I might be using when parked and camping like the always on Sig lighter plugs and centre roof console. Your feeling?
    The rest on the main battery- will change it that way.

    One thing I'm worried is if the cabling to rear is not to much at 16mm.
    Would 10mm have worked? I thought 16 as the distance would probably be nearly 5m.
    Which 4mm cable could I have replaced with 2.5?
    Led lighting I wanted to run to plugs only where I would then be able to plug the leds in as I wanted to use them.
    Like those in the centre of the pic with the parts.

    The fuse board at the back I want to install the same as what you get for boats, but my worry is that it uses those round glass fuses instead of blade fuses.
    It works on their 12V systems, is there any reason it should be a problem in mine?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Stander View Post
    The idea of the driving loads on the main battery makes sense, but I'm worried about the items that I might be using when parked and camping like the always on Sig lighter plugs and centre roof console. Your feeling?
    The rest on the main battery- will change it that way.

    One thing I'm worried is if the cabling to rear is not to much at 16mm.
    Would 10mm have worked? I thought 16 as the distance would probably be nearly 5m.
    Which 4mm cable could I have replaced with 2.5?
    Led lighting I wanted to run to plugs only where I would then be able to plug the leds in as I wanted to use them.
    Like those in the centre of the pic with the parts.

    The fuse board at the back I want to install the same as what you get for boats, but my worry is that it uses those round glass fuses instead of blade fuses.
    It works on their 12V systems, is there any reason it should be a problem in mine?
    Hi,

    While your design may appear a bit strange at first glance I actually think it has some merit.

    I like the idea of separating non essential loads from the starter battery as you have done. Obviously this assumes that the one service battery is in the engine compartment.

    BUT, if it is, you have another problem. The Ctek is doing just about nothing where it is, most definitely not doing what it is designed to do. The Ctek needs to be placed at the back of the car as close as possible to the rear service battery.

    However this complicates the design enormously. If you move the Ctek to the back, how do you charge the service battery in the engine bay?

    You essentially have three choices with the service battery in the engine compartment.

    1/. Just parallel wire it to the starter battery. (Not ideal).

    2/. Control the battery via a switch or ignition activated relay/solenoid or NL intelligent solenoid. (best bang for buck safe solution)

    3/. Put in a second CTEK 250 to charge it. (huge unnecessary overkill)

    These ramblings are intended to give the rear service battery the best chance of doing its job properly, as that battery is doing duty as a life support system (cold beers)
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD Yeasu Ft-897D
    2 V8's a V6 and an inline 4
    NB - I don't do PV Solar Systems - YET!
    The nice thing about FRIDAYS, its only two more days until MONDAY.

    People that know me know that I skrik vir niks, except high Voltages, High Currents and High Prices.

  11. #111
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    Hi Fluffy

    Not sure if my drawing doesn't show it well enough, but the way it's supposed to work is that the CTek will charge both the 2nd and 3rd battery together.
    When checking with Ctek they stated that the Ctek would be able to charge 3 batteries of 100Ah together as in my setup. Mine only 2x90Ah

    The 3rd battery is not currently even bought, but I want to make provision for it as I did in my previous vehicle.

    Both 2nd and 3rd batteries will have a very short fused harness with a Brad harrison plug, so that plugging and unplugging will be easy.

    I decided on this as I see in the old Prado I'm currently driving without a 2nd battery and I had to tape up and secure the open battery pole connecters to be sure there was no contact anywhere.
    A BH plug would have worked very nice.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Stander View Post
    Hi Fluffy

    Not sure if my drawing doesn't show it well enough, but the way it's supposed to work is that the CTek will charge both the 2nd and 3rd battery together.
    When checking with Ctek they stated that the Ctek would be able to charge 3 batteries of 100Ah together as in my setup. Mine only 2x90Ah

    The 3rd battery is not currently even bought, but I want to make provision for it as I did in my previous vehicle.

    Both 2nd and 3rd batteries will have a very short fused harness with a Brad harrison plug, so that plugging and unplugging will be easy.

    I decided on this as I see in the old Prado I'm currently driving without a 2nd battery and I had to tape up and secure the open battery pole connecters to be sure there was no contact anywhere.
    A BH plug would have worked very nice.
    Where physically are the 2nd and 3rd batteries and the Ctek charger.
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD Yeasu Ft-897D
    2 V8's a V6 and an inline 4
    NB - I don't do PV Solar Systems - YET!
    The nice thing about FRIDAYS, its only two more days until MONDAY.

    People that know me know that I skrik vir niks, except high Voltages, High Currents and High Prices.

  13. #113
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    The system is supposed to work with 1x90Ah battery only as my camping needs are 3-5 days max mixed with driving, I want to put a battery in my trailer as well and that will be the 3rd battery as my pic, but I will place a BH plug in the loadbay so that if need I can use the trailer battery in the loadbay as 3rd if no trailer and longer trip.
    But, 90% of the application will be main and 2nd battery only.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Stander View Post
    The system is supposed to work with 1x90Ah battery only as my camping needs are 3-5 days max mixed with driving, I want to put a battery in my trailer as well and that will be the 3rd battery as my pic, but I will place a BH plug in the loadbay so that if need I can use the trailer battery in the loadbay as 3rd if no trailer and longer trip.
    But, 90% of the application will be main and 2nd battery only.
    Where are the second battery and the Ctek in the car.
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD Yeasu Ft-897D
    2 V8's a V6 and an inline 4
    NB - I don't do PV Solar Systems - YET!
    The nice thing about FRIDAYS, its only two more days until MONDAY.

    People that know me know that I skrik vir niks, except high Voltages, High Currents and High Prices.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    Where physically are the 2nd and 3rd batteries and the Ctek charger.
    2nd Battery in engine bay behind RH Light
    https://scontent-a-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/...31456171_n.jpg
    https://scontent-b-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/...34486512_n.jpg

    Ctek in engine bay, open and on bracket infront of LH firewall
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.n...96090357_n.jpg

    3rd battery. I haven't even build the drawers yet , so I don't know, but it will be interchangeable between trailer or loadbay, when I build the drawers.

  16. #116
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    [QUOTE=ChrisF;2270567]Dual battery system

    Thanks for taking the time and effort - Great Article with sound advice
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  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Stander View Post
    Ctek in engine bay, open and on bracket infront of LH firewall
    you guys were clearly not in meetings today ...


    Adam the MAIN PROBLEM is that the Ctek needs to be CLOSE to the battery it is charging - the temp sensor needs to be on the battery, and the volt drop in the cables between ctek and the battery needs to be MINIMAL.

    by having a Ctek in the engine bay and a battery in the back of the vehicle you have lost all the benefit of installing the ctek ....


    all my comments on cable sizes between a Ctek and a battery is based on these items being CLOSE to each other. IF you are going to have the Ctek in the front and battery in the back you are back to a 16mm cable, and even that wont guarantee that the system will function properly ....



    Rather keep the lights and horns on the vehicle battery, and place both 2nd and 3rd batteries in the back, both right next to the Ctek.

    Clearly not the system you had in mind, but sadky this is how a Ctek works. The other option is to get a cheap dc2dc charger for the 2nd battery, and move the Ctek to the back, since this is the one that will get the solar and will drive the fridge.

  18. #118
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    Currently I have main bat, 2nd bat and Ctek all in the engine bay, so that part should work fine as all close enough.
    The idea was to add a 3rd bat to up my 90Ah to 180Ah by just plugging it in as needed, but the standard configuration is only 90Ah.
    So as KBie says: Dual battery system.

    Probably overkill for my current useage ( 4 weekends away per year),
    but would love to provide for that 1month trip in Namibia.

    So as KBie says: Dual battery system.

  19. #119
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    Chris

    Awesome write up..

    would you recommend a 220V to 12Vdc charge onto your system and if so how would it be connected
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  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by rangenam View Post
    Chris

    Awesome write up..

    would you recommend a 220V to 12Vdc charge onto your system and if so how would it be connected
    I actually did have this on my system before the solar was added.


    Caravan power point on the canopy, with a pultiplug on the inside.

    Fridge permanently plugged in here - the NL senses the 220V and automatically switches away from the 12V sources.

    Also on the multiplug I had a Benton BX2 charger for the second battery.



    With the 2x80W solar panels I have not needed mains again ....

    Actually at Addo it was hot but partly overcast, so I only ran the fridge from the battery. and used the 220V of the camp to charge the computers - I was doing some photo editing and working the 17'' laptop, and this baby draws some hectic amps from the battery !!


    If I go to Kgalagadi now, I would use camp mains for fridge, and store as much as possible of the solar power to keep the battery FULL .... at least thats an option if the battery level was to drop

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