Carnet de Passage advice needed




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  1. #1
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    Default Carnet de Passage advice needed

    I would appreciate feedback into a somewhat complicated Carnet de Passage scenario.
    My UK registered vehicle arrived in South Africa January 2013 on a Carnet that expires in January 2014.
    I will be travelling to Zambia (a non SACU country) from South Africa in November 2013 to ensure that I do not breach the rule that says a foreign vehicle must not remain in South Africa for more than 12 months at a time.
    I then plan to drive back into South Africa in December 2013, clearing my vehicle with the Carnet that expires in January 2014 i.e. the same one that I used to export it into Zambia. Now, I am allowed to keep my vehicle in South Africa for a further 12 months until December 2015.
    Are you with me so far !!
    Realizing my current Carnet will be expiring before my next trip out of South Africa, I apply in the UK for a new Carnet that is valid from January 2014, expiring in January 2015.
    So my dilemma is: I now have my vehicle in South Africa on a Carnet that expires BEFORE I next cross a border out of South Africa (and indeed a SACU country) in October 2014. When I get to the border at that time I will have TWO Carnets, one that has EXPIRED but has the vehicle IMPORT stamp on it and a second which is VALID but has nothing on it.
    My question to fellow Forumers' is this: Can I use the new Carnet to export my vehicle from South Africa even though the vehicle IMPORT stamp is on the now expired Carnet.? Or would the customs just EXPORT my vehicle on the old Carnet even though it has expired ?.
    Takes a while to get one’s mind around the issue, but any advice would be appreciated.
    Regards
    Simon
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  2. #2
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    Too much trouble for a friend to use it over a border for a weekend ?

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
    There is no task too simple for some people to complicate !



    Chev Aveo and Atos and Polo.

  3. #3
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    Hi Simon,

    Carnets' expiring dates have nothing to do with the one year period you are allowed in the SACU.

    So far you have not overpassed this one year period and you have a valid carnet with you, no problem at all. They will stamp your old expired carnet when exiting SACU and the new one when entering Zambia.
    Pierre
    -------------------------------------------------------------

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    Hi Pierre
    Thanks for your reply.
    If the IMPORT stamp on the Carnet was January 1st 2014 and the Carnet expired on February 1st 2014, would SA customs EXPORT stamp that expired Carnet if I were to leave South Africa on June 2014. ?

    Thanks
    Simon
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  5. #5
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    Hi Simon,
    They should do. You will have been stamped in on the old carnet before it expires. As long as you present the old and the new one when you leave, they should stamp out the old one as normal and you will enter Zambia (or wherever you are going) on the new one. I've done that plenty of times, although I must admit that there hasnt been a 6 month gap between!
    You need to speak with a lady called Carol at the RAC in UK who will know for sure - but i also hear a rumour that they were no longer going to issue relacement carnets for vehicles that have been 'permanently exported' for a long time, so make sure you can actually get a replacement or you will be in trouble.

    Linda

  6. #6
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    Thanks Linda,
    I figured that presenting both, and explaining the situation may work, but it is reassuring to know that you have done this and it does.

    I will call the RAC in the UK and report back to this thread on the issue of follow up Carnet's. It is a shame that Paul Gowan has moved to another department in the RAC as he was the true overlanders friend !!
    Regards
    Simon
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    It certainly is a shame that Paul is gone - he was a good guy. The new lady doesnt seem nearly as efficient.
    Good luck with it.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Lawrence View Post
    If the IMPORT stamp on the Carnet was January 1st 2014 and the Carnet expired on February 1st 2014, would SA customs EXPORT stamp that expired Carnet if I were to leave South Africa on June 2014. ?
    Yes they will, I can't see any issue there.

    No sure if RAC will be of any help. In France the Automobile Club is not really. They can't know the local custom rules everywhere.
    Pierre
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    Hi Simon,

    Hope things are going well.

    As Linda said technically they should stamp the old one - however, you can never quite guarantee whether the guy on the day will do so. Hence Paul G's advice in your situation was always to exit and get the old one stamped out of SA and the new one stamped in when you re-entered. But of course that's not practical for you.

    I do recall someone on the HUBB who managed to get it all sorted without leaving SA ie old one stamped out and new one in at the same time - at Customs Head Office in Cape Town I think. I'll see if I can find the thread.

    Best of luck speaking to the RAC. Quite a few people seem to have had problems with extending. Had you heard they are no longer accepting bank guarantees?

    Lisa

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    Hi Lisa.
    Hope all is well with you both. Say hi to Jerry from me.
    Yes Carnet's are becoming a real palava and another change in staff doesnt help. Was on the phone today with the new guy called Jake, and have emailed him a few questions as a start. You are right, no more Bank Guarantees, only Indemnity Insurance, where you pay 10% of the calculated 'risk', 50% which is repayable once the Carnet is returned. Also they wont post-date the Carnet books anymore, so that makes renewal (actually thats the wrong terminology now, as they officially dont do renewals anymore) and timing of such more challenging, especially when ones on the road.
    I will see what responses I get from the RAC and when I get to the bottom of it all I will post on this thread for all to see !!
    Regards
    Simon
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    Hi Simon,

    I entered SACU on Jan 25th (Kazungula Bots, coming from Zim) with a Carnet expiring on Jan 31st, then exited SA at Giriyondo (SA/Moz, from Kruger to Limpopo NP) on May 25th, the SA customs stamped out my old carnet (already expired for 4 months) AND KNEW THEY HAD TO DO SO.

    The Moz customs stamped in my new carnet (I thought I have to take a TIP, but obviously Moz accepts the Carnet, even if they are not suppposed to be a signatoree of the traitee, then I exited Moz to Malawi 10 days later, no problems either out of Moz nor in Malawi (my only problem is that the Malawi customs stamped in at the place for stamping out, I take all this quite easy...

    Cheers..

    Eric
    Last edited by eric60260; 2013/07/10 at 04:29 PM.

  12. #12
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    Hi Simon,

    This is the thread I was thinking of. Based on Neill's experience it may be possible to get the old one stamped out and the new one stamped in in Cape Town in Dec 2013 (notwithstanding the fact that the new one doesn't start until Jan 2014). Then you can put them away and forget all about it.

    http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...h-africa-66959

    Cheers

    Lisa

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    When in desperate straits... back in 1994, our carnet expired while in Nairobi (we left SA for a year, and then kept travelling for another year). I went down to Biashara Street, got one of the rubber stamp makers to make me up a stamp that read "AA Overseas Motoring", found a secretarial service in Karen that had a typist who could speak French, and got her to type in "Carnet extended for 12 months" plus the dates, all very official, rubber stamped it, carried on travelling through Kenya, Ethiopia, Uganda, Tanzania, Zambia etc for another year, no questions asked. Dodgy and desperate, but it worked!
    Last edited by Tony Weaver; 2013/07/09 at 08:33 PM.

  14. #14
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    Thanks Lisa.
    That is a useful link and I will post on this so others can read and learn.

    A probem now with getting a replacement Carnet is that the RAC wont post date them and will only issue them shortly before the old one expires. I really dont know why this is, especially if one is getting a follow on Carnet to renew an expiring one in a seamless transition.
    Anyway, I will continue to dig !!
    Regards
    Simon
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  15. #15
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    Information from Lisa of Itchyfeet on how to swap a Carnet that is about to Expire without having to go to a border to do so.

    So now you have an old expiring carnet and a new one running from when the old one expires. How do you get them swapped over without driving out of the SACU. Well as it turns out it was pretty easy. We did it before the new one came into affect (old expires 31st and we did on the 22nd with the new one being valid from the 31st but stamped "in" on the 22nd also. So done early. No problem there.)

    Go to the new customs house in Cape Town CBD. You can see it from the old one next to the port which is in T4A. The guards will point you at the right building. You can park in town on the side of the road for 11rand an hour.
    Its here.

    17 Lower Long Street
    Cape Town
    8001

    Go into the little customer interface office and ask at the counter for the "carnet guy". They will shuffle you to a private booth. Explain you have a carnet thats about to expire and you need the old one stamped out and the new one stamped in, its an foreign car etc.... The guy should understand and stamp them all as you've probably seen many times. He needs to return all the parts to Pretoria (get him to make you some copies of the old detached folio and the new one). Make sure he puts a note on all the parts with the replacement (or replaced) carnet numbers. He knows what he's doing, mostly.

    Return your old carnet to the RAC at the DHL office down the road at Number 2 Lower Loop Street. If you walk up the hill from the customs office there is a copy shop to get the old carnet copied just in case before you go to DHL.

    Job done. 2 hours max.


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  16. #16
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    Tony. Great innovation.
    I am sure that with the RAC in the UK seemingly making it more difficult for the genuine overlander to travel with minimal extra paperwork stress and expense, that many may well end up adopting such solutions !! Know of any such places in Cape Town ?
    Simon
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  17. #17
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    Thanks Eric.
    Yours will be a similar situation that I find myself in on my next trip to Southern Africa in September 2013.
    Having an expired Carnet (31st December 2013) with an import stamp into the SACU dated November 2013 and a follow on valid Carnet that I will then use to export my vehicle out of the SACU later in 2014, before the 12 month deadline comes up. The 9 month gap could be a concern at the border, but what other choice is there. Maybe, the previous info from Itchyfeet on swapping over Carnet's in Cape Town customs head office will work, but that example was with a Carnet that had not yet expired.
    Simon
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Lawrence View Post
    Thanks Eric.
    Yours will be a similar situation that I find myself in on my next trip to Southern Africa in September 2013.
    Having an expired Carnet (31st December 2013) with an import stamp into the SACU dated November 2013 and a follow on valid Carnet that I will then use to export my vehicle out of the SACU later in 2014, before the 12 month deadline comes up. The 9 month gap could be a concern at the border, but what other choice is there. Maybe, the previous info from Itchyfeet on swapping over Carnet's in Cape Town customs head office will work, but that example was with a Carnet that had not yet expired.
    Simon
    Hi Simon,

    All overlanders I know (and I know a lot of them), either from France, or UK or Germany or from other countries do so..(stamp the expired carnet when exiting the last countries), so why change it ?

    I would not attempt to use Tony's solution nowadays, even if I know the people in Nairobi who have the custom stamps; IT has improved dramatically these last years especially in countries with not very democratic ruling, it is amazing to see how much money even very poor countries spend in order to control people's moves.

    For example, as I crossed the SA/Moz border in Giryiondo (which is basically in the middle of nowhere), the Mozambique guys issued a BIOMETRIC visa with pics, fingerprints, etc..., they had the same hardware (even better) than the administration has at my place in France (I had a new passport issued last week, the previous was full up with stamps).

    And they checked everything, fingerprints, etc.. as I exited Moz to Malawi on the road from Tete to Blantyre, it worked, which means their IT connection works !! (amazing when you know how difficult it may be to have an Internet connection in these countries, but that's another story, I can imagine that the Moz Police and Army have more or less unlimited budgets).

    Same thing at Lilongwe Airport, they have these new fingerprints machines and use them (Malawi belongs to the 5 poorest countries in the world with a GDP of less than US $ 300 pp / year).

    Cheers.

    Eric
    Last edited by eric60260; 2013/07/10 at 04:30 PM.

  19. #19
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    Simon

    I sent you a PM with contact details regarding the AA who issues Carnet's in SA

    They will be able to assist with your query

    Rudu
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  20. #20
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    Hi Rudu
    I didnt receive your PM yet ?

    Thanks
    Simon
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