Marius's Touareg R5 life thread. - Page 38




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  1. #741
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    Thanks guys. I'm not a techie though. Just keen to help where I can
    I have bee helped tremendously by you guys so anything I can put back I will with a smile.

    Anton, those gears sit at the back of the engine so can only be reached by pulling the engine.

    Let me know whats happening. Maybe you can use parts of my engine if needed. No charge. Just shipping.

  2. #742
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    Thanks guys. I'm not a techie though. Just keen to help where I can
    I have bee helped tremendously by you guys so anything I can put back I will with a smile.

    Anton, those gears sit at the back of the engine so can only be reached by pulling the engine.

    Let me know whats happening. Maybe you can use parts of my engine if needed. No charge. Just shipping.

  3. #743
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    Thanks for the offer will do the calc from buying local, versus shipping.
    Slowly but surely the Teg is being sorted. Thanks for all input, appreciated. To be continued...
    Missing Treg keep eyes wide open

  4. #744
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    Quote Originally Posted by MariusFourie View Post
    Sensitive to wrong oil, not so much bad fuel. Many Many many PD engines that have reached 500'000 miles without issues.



    The contamination is not what worries me. My 10'000km oil change intervals will remedy that. My concern is the lack of lubricity in low sulphur diesel. It has just enough lubricity to comply with requirements but based on the growing rate of HPFP failures it is obvious that lubricity is a huge concern for modern diesel engines. Especially with the use of tighter tolerances and aluminium being used.




    We don't add 2SO to add sulphur. We add 2SO to add lubricity. Low sulphur diesel has two benefits. Cleaner emissions and longer drain intervals. However the lack of lubricity (to ensure engines go to half a million kms without failure) is a big downside to the fuel.



    2SO is designed to lubricate and burn. Unfortunately it's not a perfect burn in the 2stroke engine due to the high volumes that's added to that fuel. In the small ratios we add it burns cleanly and even removes carbon deposits (check out this post - http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/...78#post1502078)

    The plasma coated sleeves are not sensitive to additives. They are thin so any failure gets aggravated quickly. They are extremely hard coatings. More so than iron blocks hence the need for diamond coated honing blocks to hone them. What they are sensitive to, is extended drain intervals as sulphur in diesel acidifies the engine oil which can eat the lining slowly and because it is so thin it fails quickly once past the threshold.



    From the cars I have driven with EGT sensors the 2SO makes no real difference. However I have seen injector cleaners increase EGT a lot. Even the Mitsu approved one.



    I have never forced this on anybody. I give my experience and try to back it up as far as possible. The decision lies with them ultimately.

    Same with me where VW says I must use 507.00 where I know that is a recipe for disaster in my engine.

    The manufacturers are bound by legislation and if were let loose to design vehicles to last we won't have catalytic converters that block, EGR systems that clog up our intakes.

    Every diesel injector specialist I talked to recommends 2SO as a lubricant to extend injector life. They all say that business boomed after the low sulphur came into play.

    We change the design of vehicles to suit our needs. Just like we add extra diesel tanks to extend range, upgrade suspensions to cope with our roads etc. we delete EGR systems, catalytic converters and add 2SO to extend the life of our engines.

    This is just my view and my experience backs it up but the choice lies with you as it always has.

    I have seen enough engines and injectors that has been run on 2SO to convince me to use it. If you are not convinced, then don't use it.

    In closing - I have yet to see a single engine or injector failure that has been directly attributed to the use of 2SO. But I have seen many reports of users having good experiences with the use thereof.


    I don't know whether it works or not.
    Adding unspecified cack to fuel may or may not improve the lubricity of the fuel.

    There is no scientific proof what so ever that proves that SO2 will ensure longevity on diesel engines especially the emission-controlled R5.

    It's not being recommended by the manufacturer because an unapproved additive can put more sulfur in the fuel tank than is in all the fuel and certainly the manufacturer did not certify the engine that way.

    A bottle of SO2 can contain 5,000 ppm sulfur or greater, which is 200 times more concentrated than the diesel.

    By mixing it at recommended ratio 200:1 means you will need 500ml 2SO per 100L tank of diesel.

    I wonder how the DPF and catalytic converter will react with all that sulfur...

    Using an excessive amount of 2SO probably won't damage anything on an older non-emission-controlled diesel with no catalytic converter.
    But I doubt if it will do much good, either.


    In my opinion the 2 stroke oil will burn with diesel.
    It may very very slightly add to lubricating properties of the fuel and maybe benefit the fuel pump/injector but almost certainly not to a detectable nor measurable degree.

    At 200:1 its effect on burn rate, fuel viscosity and energy content should be unmeasurable.

    Any change to perceived performance and reliability will be due to placebo effect.




    I always used to pee into my compost heap; don't know if it made any difference...


    .
    2005 VW Touareg R5 TDi (Daddy's cool ride)
    Electric Jeep Super (Little-SWAMBO's ride)


  5. #745
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romzotwa View Post
    I don't know whether it works or not.
    Adding unspecified cack to fuel may or may not improve the lubricity of the fuel.
    It has been proven to add lubricity

    http://www.pajeroclub.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2940

    Quote Originally Posted by Romzotwa View Post
    There is no scientific proof what so ever that proves that SO2 will ensure longevity on diesel engines especially the emission-controlled R5.
    No proof but I have seen enough engine insides to see how clean it keeps the engine. My R5 can have the EGR disabled in 5 seconds without the ecu having a fit about it and my R5 does not have a DPF and as of my engine rebuild no catalytic converters either.

    My dad has been using it in his non-DPF V10 touareg with catalytic converters for about 70'000km and he has had no failure on his engine whatsoever. It now stands on close to 260'000km.

    On top of that my Pajero 3.2's catalytic converter was spotless when I took it out after about 25'000km worth of 2SO use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Romzotwa View Post
    It's not being recommended by the manufacturer because an unapproved additive can put more sulfur in the fuel tank than is in all the fuel and certainly the manufacturer did not certify the engine that way.
    It is not recommended by manufacturers as they are bound by legislation as to what additives can be approved. An EGT gauge can save an engine as well but that isn't recommended by OEM as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Romzotwa View Post
    A bottle of SO2 can contain 5,000 ppm sulfur or greater, which is 200 times more concentrated than the diesel.

    By mixing it at recommended ratio 200:1 means you will need 500ml 2SO per 100L tank of diesel.

    I wonder how the DPF and catalytic converter will react with all that sulfur...
    As mentioned above I have seen a catalytic converter run on a long duration of 2SO and it was spotless. I have also read numerous reports of 2SO users in DPF vehicles where the DPF burnoff cycle actually gets extended (which supports the claims for a cleaner burn when adding 2SO)

    Quote Originally Posted by Romzotwa View Post
    Using an excessive amount of 2SO probably won't damage anything on an older non-emission-controlled diesel with no catalytic converter.
    But I doubt if it will do much good, either.
    Ask the guys who have been doing it for years and they will disagree with you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Romzotwa View Post
    In my opinion the 2 stroke oil will burn with diesel.
    It may very very slightly add to lubricating properties of the fuel and maybe benefit the fuel pump/injector but almost certainly not to a detectable nor measurable degree.
    Not quite true. See the link I posted above that proves it adds lubricity and reduces the wear scar mark on metals when used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Romzotwa View Post
    At 200:1 its effect on burn rate, fuel viscosity and energy content should be unmeasurable.
    Again : ask the guys who has been using it for years. They notice. 200:1 may not sound much but add salt/chlorine/food colouring to water at 200:1 and the effect is huge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Romzotwa View Post
    Any change to perceived performance and reliability will be due to placebo effect.
    Quite the opposite. Most who dive in and use it report either no effect or positive effects in terms of better cold starting, smoother running engine and better fuel economy.


    Quote Originally Posted by Romzotwa View Post

    I always used to pee into my compost heap; don't know if it made any difference...


    .
    lol.

    Again : the choice lies with the end user. Read all you can and make the decision. One thing is certain - 2SO is definitely not bad for an engine. It either does nothing or it does good.

  6. #746
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    Also

    Adding 500ml 2SO (assuming its 5000ppm sulpher) to a 100l tank in the touareg full of 50ppm will change the 50ppm to 74.63ppm. Hardly a sulphur boost of note

  7. #747
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    Quote Originally Posted by MariusFourie View Post
    Also

    Adding 500ml 2SO (assuming its 5000ppm sulpher) to a 100l tank in the touareg full of 50ppm will change the 50ppm to 74.63ppm. Hardly a sulphur boost of note
    Please share your maths on this...

    .
    2005 VW Touareg R5 TDi (Daddy's cool ride)
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  8. #748
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    Please please please can we not have two stroke debate....
    2007 Touareg 3.0 V6 TDI (Facelift, Air, Rear Diff Lock, Rear Mounted Spare)
    2008 Audi A4 B8 2.0 TDI (Multitronic)
    2009 KTM 990 Adventure (Daily Commuter & Weekend Fun)
    2012 Imagine Trailvan 4-Sleeper

    * consumption needs to be seen in the context that the vehicle is towing an Imagine Trailvan 50% of the time.


  9. #749
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romzotwa View Post
    Please share your maths on this...

    .
    We are working with ratios so exact parts are not necessary.

    In this scenario we will assume that there is a million parts in 500ml.

    so the 100 liters of 50ppm diesel means that there is 50 parts per 500ml of sulphur which adds up to 50x200

    = 10'000 parts of sulphur in the diesel tank.

    Now we add 2SO which is 5000ppm which means 5000parts per 500ml and we add 500ml so 5000parts sulphur is added. This makes the total sulphur parts 15'000 in the tank.

    there is now 100.5 liters in the tank which is 201 x 500ml.

    If we just had diesel we can check our formula by going like so

    10'000parts sulphur divided by the measure of 500ml of which there are 200 gives us 10'000/200 = 50ppm.

    with the 2SO added there is 15000parts sulpher. we divide the 15000 parts per measuring (500ml) of 201 and we get 74.63ppm.

  10. #750
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kortgat View Post
    Please please please can we not have two stroke debate....
    This is my thread and I can do as I please - within TOS of course

    But yes, let's leave it at that.
    Last edited by MariusFourie; 2013/02/06 at 08:47 AM.

  11. #751
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    I get the same answer. 74.63.

    Don't know why you guys are disputing using 2 stroke oil. If you like it or don't like it, use it or don't and take the percieved risks either way. Live and let live!

    Nice tread about the engine rebuilding. That gear train is very complicated! But it should last a reasonable mileage.

    For interest. Manufacturers design vehicles to last 10 years or 250000km for the vehicles average usage profile. (used to work at some OEM's) So if you want it to last longer, some special maintenance is required. My 1 car is now over 400K though and no engine overhaul yet. touch wood...

  12. #752
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    Yes, the geartrain looks complicated but it's actually a very simple design ensuring longevity.

    I read somewhere that the R5/V10 engines were designed with a million kilometer lifecycle in mind. Provided ideal conditions are met and maintenance is kept up.

    Unfortunately this is not the case so yes, some extra stuff needs doing to extend the life of our engines.

    That geartrain on my old engine has done 250'000km and shows no signs of wear at all!

  13. #753
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    Quote Originally Posted by MariusFourie View Post
    Thought I quickly do this for you.

    I'll let the pictures do the talking.









    I see the big gear in pic #2 is a zero backlash gear, clever stuff.

    Engine donor's old elastic coupling that was clearly fubar!






    I see the gear in pic#2 is a zero backlash gear. Clever stuff.
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD Yeasu Ft-897D
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    The nice thing about going the extra mile - the road is never congested.

  14. #754
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    Quote Originally Posted by MariusFourie View Post

    lol.

    Again : the choice lies with the end user. Read all you can and make the decision. One thing is certain - 2SO is definitely not bad for an engine. It either does nothing or it does good.
    Quote Originally Posted by MariusFourie View Post
    This is my thread and I can do as I please - within TOS of course

    But yes, let's leave it at that.

    Thanks for keeping your cool...

    Note, that I'm focusing more on using addetives with the R5/V10 engine which is still on topic...

    We know Mitsubishi engines are resilient and will drink almost anything what you put in it, but is it the same with the R5 without any customizations e.g. de-cat and deleted EGR?

    Even known that plasma cylinder coatings can fail because of various reasons, will usage of SO2 reduce the risk?



    B.T.W: I sold my Mitshu about 5 years ago with almost 250k KMS on the ODO.
    I drove it for more than 100k KMS without any issues.
    The new owner still drives it without any issues and he loves it.
    I did the required 7,5k services and never worried about what type of diesel to use and I never used any additives or cack...


    Quote Originally Posted by MariusFourie View Post
    I read somewhere that the R5/V10 engines were designed with a million kilometer lifecycle in mind. Provided ideal conditions are met and maintenance is kept up.

    This is exactly what I read somewhere on ClubTouareg.
    I don't know how true it is though.

    The long and short off it all; also a reason why I asked: "WHY additives then needed".



    .
    Last edited by Romzotwa; 2013/02/06 at 10:09 AM.
    2005 VW Touareg R5 TDi (Daddy's cool ride)
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  15. #755
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    In closing - I use 2SO to add lubricity to the diesel to extend the lifespan of the tandem pump and the injectors and to also keep the combustion chamber clean of carbon deposits.

    Now, back to the thread at hand. Pictures will follow shortly as I want to disassemble the engine completely, store the spare parts and have the block cleaned and galvanised and turned into a coffee table.

    Any guesses as to the weight of the bare block with everything out?

  16. #756
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    Are you not keeping the old engine block and parts for the claim on the seller via the ombudsman? It is quite possible that they will need some physical evidence to examine.
    - Nothing comes at a higher price than that which is free.

  17. #757
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Shirt View Post
    Are you not keeping the old engine block and parts for the claim on the seller via the ombudsman? It is quite possible that they will need some physical evidence to examine.
    I have plenty of pictures and report from VW on the low compression. But yes, that's a good point. I think it's wise to keep all the parts until the ombudsman has made his decision.

    Thanks.

  18. #758
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    All the paperwork is done and authorisation given so the treg is getting fixed soon. I hope VW have parts or can get quickly.

    Jippee!

  19. #759
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    Great news, just back to the 2SO debate....Sorry, I agree with the fact that sulphur adds lubricity to diesel and low sulphur fuel brings with it problems. I also agree that 2SO does assist with lubricity concerns among others. Is using 500ppm diesel then not an alternative? obviously oil change intervals are more critical.

    WRT to your block, dont galvanise an ally block, there are far more "attractive" coatings available

    Cheers
    Range Rover Sport 5.0 SC
    Lotus 7 replica racecar.
    Ex R5 Touareg with air and RDL

  20. #760
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    I'd rather not go further with the 2SO thing here. Let's take it further on one of the dedicated threads.

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